Houston MLS is...

[VitaminD]

What a horrendous nickname as Tony Kornhiser said what is their mascot going to be a calendar?

why is everyone so thickheaded? its not a nickname! its a proper team name. the nickname will come naturally. dont watch soccer if it offends you that much. you probably dont anyways. if they were called the apollos, the CityKats, or something lame, would you watch soccer just because they have a nickname? i think its a great direction for the mls. it'll make serious soccer fans buy into the league while curious fans will hang on. i agree, its a rip-off of european clubs, but who cares? we're ripping-off the sport, why not rip off the traditions? right?

Tank... if you're getting your soccer insight from Tony Kornheiser, then you've missed the point, and you'll never, ever find it. Kornheiser is a perfect example of the know-nothing blowhards who have air time before the nation and the world. Rather than admit ignorance and move on to things he knows, he makes himself look foolish and uninformed on the subject. He does the same for hockey or any other sport he doesn't "get".

If everyone would read grub's post, you'll see someone who gets it. (A few of you do as well, judging by the back-and-forth in this thread.) The MLS is paying homage to the established leagues. This is not an [North] American sport, like baseball, football, basketball and hockey. As such, this is an attempt at adhering to the conventions of the best-known, successful leagues. Fans of soccer in America usually follow foreign leagues; these are the fans MLS is reaching out to, and by using foreign naming conventions, they're reaching out to people who don't find them weird and unusual.

Would "Houston 1836" be better if it truly adhered to German conventions, and the team was "Houston 06"? Fine with me, using the year of the club's inception.

Nicknames, as was said earlier, are earned from others, not given by yourself... like George Costanza and "T-Bone". Our most prized nicknames in this country on the pro and college nicknames came from all precincts - uniform colors, sportswriters, the team's own fans, the team's sworn enemies. They evolved. And so it will with the MLS teams.

For a counterpoint, look at some European leagues that play "American sports". The top levels of the British hockey and basketball leagues use American naming conventions ("The [city] [plural nickname]") and everyone is cool with that. Same thing with the Chinese basketball league ("Shanghai Sharks") - they even use names that sound alliterative in English! Face it - leagues seeking legitimacy will always imitate the most successful leagues, just like similar models in other businesses. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and this is a bouquet to the Premier League, the Bundesliga and Serie A. Get over it; they're probably not appealing to you, team names be damned.

So will the players be 1836s? The goalie meets up with the goalie from KC. "I'm a Wizard." "Really? I'm an 1836!" Or maybe, "I'm a 36." Or, "I'm a 36-24-36". Just call yourselves the Houston Eurotrash and get it over with already.

Weak. What's an individual member of the Orlando NBA team? A Trick? A Magician? And while we're at it, ask the same questions of NBAers in Miami and Utah, NHLers in Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Colorado, collegiate athletes in Syracuse, Notre Dame and Illinois, and more than half of MLS.

[Puck]

I think the answer is in the middle. Yes, while I think Kornheiser is completely wrong about the subject, you do have to concede the fact that most Americans aren't going to be rolling the name off their tongues.

Personally, I think the name is great and I'm fully behind the team, although I will have to admit I like watching PTI as well.

[Titanole]

1836 ISN'T THE TEAMS NICKNAME!!! THEY DONT HAVE ONE!!

You are absolutely right. And that's fine with me.

[gosioux76]

I think Grubstreet and VitaminD are right on the mark here.

Sure, the vast majority of the American sporting public won't be able to digest the concept of a "Houston 1836" franchise name. But I'm not so sure the MLS is trying to appeal to the entire country.

Here's my take on the MLS strategy:

They likely think there's a huge soccer watching public in the U.S. that sees MLS as inferior thanks in part to its efforts to adapt to American sporting culture.

Part of that may be in its organization: the fact that it splits teams into divisions and has a U.S.-style playoff bracket rather than a Euro-style one-table league with promotion and relegation.

But it also has something to do with the standard, American-style sports branding. It's just not consistent with what's done in world soccer, and true fans likely think the same thing.

While the level of play in the MLS continues to improve, the league is now taking steps to appeal to that that Euro-loving segment of U.S. soccer fans.

What good is any sports league if it doesn't have a strong image among the true fans of the game?

[Brian in Boston]

Another twist to the branding of Houston 1836...

Apparently, there are members of the Spanish-language media in Houston who are saying that Major League Soccer and club management made a poor choice in branding Houston 1836... well, at least if the club is looking to attract Mexican-american fans. These media members claim that the name is needlessly divisive, given that 1836 was not only the year in which Houston was founded, but the year in which Texas rebelled against Mexican rule. It's their contention that Mexican-American fans may boycott the team over the name.

It remains to be seen whether Houston-based Mexican-American sports consumers and soccer fans truly have a problem with the name or whether the Spanish-language media is simply trying to drum up a controversy to lift ratings.

Stay tuned.

[gosioux76]

And for those wondering how sports writers will handle the name, here's an example from a column in today's Houston Chronicle:

1836 midfielder Dwayne DeRosario had the game's best chance for Canada but was denied in goal by United States goalkeeper Matt Reis.

And from another Chronicle story:

"It (the name) distinguishes us from the rest of the teams," said 1836 goalkeeper Pat Onstad, who signed autographs at Lanier.

[Blackjack76]

And for those wondering how sports writers will handle the name, here's an example from a column in today's Houston Chronicle:

1836 midfielder Dwayne DeRosario had the game's best chance for Canada but was denied in goal by United States goalkeeper Matt Reis.

And from another Chronicle story:

"It (the name) distinguishes us from the rest of the teams," said 1836 goalkeeper Pat Onstad, who signed autographs at Lanier.

But look at the way the team uses HOUSTON 1836 in its press release:

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/team_news.j...t=.jsp&team=hou

I've already vented about this (see BLOG THIS below).

[Brian in Boston]

They likely think there's a huge soccer watching public in the U.S. that sees MLS as inferior thanks in part to its efforts to adapt to American sporting culture.

No offense, but if that's what MLS is thinking, they're wrong.

The reason that Major League Soccer doesn't resonate with either the lovers of international soccer or the fans of American mainstream sports is much simpler than that: both groups recognize that the product on display in MLS is sub-par on the world stage.

Fans of topflight international club soccer know that MLS talent is clearly not the equivalent of that which is on display in the EPL, La Liga, Serie A, etc. As a result, even though these fans might give a glance towards MLS, they are in no way going to embrace it the way they do first-rate club soccer... and splashing international-style names and logos on the MLS franchises isn't going to change that.

As for soccer's inability to make significant inroads with the very core of American mainstream sports fans, I've long maintained that such fans snub US professional soccer because they have an inherent bias against rooting for anything that they perceive to be second-rate. These fans know that MLB is home to the best players in all of baseball... that the NBA is home to the world's cream-of-the-crop basketball talent... that the NFL features the best gridiron football competitors in the world... that the NHL boasts the top hockey talent on the planet. MLS can't make such claims, which exacerbates the marketing problems for a sport that is already seen as "foreign". Again, changing the branding of MLS clubs to be more in line with international standards isn't going to change the quality of the American pro version of the sport one iota.

Bottom line? You can put a pig in a dress, slap lipstick and perfume on it... and it is still going to be a pig. If Major League Soccer wants to increase its appeal it is going to have to increase the quality of play on the field. Period. This may come across as a sacrilege on these boards, but as far as MLS is concerned... the team names, logos and uniforms are just "window dressing". They aren't going to drive the "success" or "failure" of the league. First Division pro soccer in this country has greater problems marketing itself than that.

And I'm a fan of the sport.

[Brick]

Could the swirls on the logo be a reference to the old Houston Hurricanes?

[Puck]

I think Grubstreet and VitaminD are right on the mark here.

Sure, the vast majority of the American sporting public won't be able to digest the concept of a "Houston 1836" franchise name. But I'm not so sure the MLS is trying to appeal to the entire country.

Here's my take on the MLS strategy:

They likely think there's a huge soccer watching public in the U.S. that sees MLS as inferior thanks in part to its efforts to adapt to American sporting culture.

Part of that may be in its organization: the fact that it splits teams into divisions and has a U.S.-style playoff bracket rather than a Euro-style one-table league with promotion and relegation.

But it also has something to do with the standard, American-style sports branding. It's just not consistent with what's done in world soccer, and true fans likely think the same thing.

While the level of play in the MLS continues to improve, the league is now taking steps to appeal to that that Euro-loving segment of U.S. soccer fans.

What good is any sports league if it doesn't have a strong image among the true fans of the game?

God, I would love if an (North to include Canada) American sports league decided to do this. There's plenty of cities with teams in the A-League to help facilitate teams going up and down, but then again what would American advertising do when they backed one team and it got regulated the next season?

[Gothamite]

I'm sure all contracts would contain a provision allowing the sponsor to either opt out, or pay a lower amount, if the team gets relegated.

[-kj]

As much as I like the idea of pro/rel, I don't think it's going to happen here, partially due to that mindset, and partially due to the geography involved. Most countries with pro/rel simply don't have the type of geographic expanses involved in the US and Canada to worry about, so the arrangement of teams in the various levels don't really matter all that much.

[Titanole]

Pro/rel would only work if the first division (currently MLS) grew so large with viable clubs that they could split into a first and second division. Then the existing second division and third divisions (currently USL-1 and 2) would become the third and fourth divisions with no promotion up to the second.

The financial fragility of U.S. and Canadian clubs combined with geography is keeping this from happening now.

[Puckguy14]

My point I'm trying to make is that MLS is almost trying to look like an older, established, long time league. Granted some of the original names like Clash and Wiz aren't exactly the greatest names. But shoot, at least they were creative and original. Not trying to sound like Real Madrid or Manchester United.

I mean, as much as some latinos take offense to Houston 1836, to which some might think it doesn't market to them. The same can be said about Chivas USA in reverse. I mean yes it means a touch of Mexico here, which is cool, but I'll never understand why MLS would allow Chivas to essentially take over the Galaxy's market and stadium. Oh well MLS will learn.

[Krona]

as i said before,i think the mls is taking great steps. moving into smaller soccer only stadiums, going witha older euro style branding, and abandoning the american style of marketing teams. these are all steps. once the non-soccer public gets used to these changes, then you can introduce other nuances to the business side of the game, (read: spronsorship) which leads to bigger names (beckham has made it clear that he's interested), stadium expansions, etc. the world cup is huge this year. if the us makes it deep, people will finally notice. todays twenty somethings are the first generation to know soccer as their first sport. that will pay off. this mls plan goes deep, and i imagine we're only about a third of the way into the plan. now, the kornholeser's and jim romes dont help, but let the callers of those shows illustrate that soccer wont miss them as fans.

[murtaugh]

I'm certainly no fan of MLS as a league or organisation...but jesus they've got to be doing something right.

10 years, only one team moved, and two dropped (both in Florida, where professional sport goes to die); adidas writing $150 million dollar checks, ESPN likely to write a $40 million dollar check in short order, and municipalites fronting cash for new stadiums?

Ratings and revenue-wise it may not be the Arena Football League but I'm not sure you can say all the above even about the NHL.

---

As for naming conventions it could go either way. The deepest history of professional soccer in America (which goes back 100 something years, as long or longer than anywhere outside the British Isles) is with European ethnic clubs (and late, Latin ethnic clubs). They didn't give themselves names like "Firehawks".

This doens't change how dumb names like "Real Salt Lake" are, but the fact is after two or three years just about anything becomes platable and ingrained.

[NJTank]

What a horrendous nickname as Tony Kornhiser said what is their mascot going to be a calendar?

why is everyone so thickheaded? its not a nickname! its a proper team name. the nickname will come naturally. dont watch soccer if it offends you that much. you probably dont anyways. if they were called the apollos, the CityKats, or something lame, would you watch soccer just because they have a nickname? i think its a great direction for the mls. it'll make serious soccer fans buy into the league while curious fans will hang on. i agree, its a rip-off of european clubs, but who cares? we're ripping-off the sport, why not rip off the traditions? right?

Tank... if you're getting your soccer insight from Tony Kornheiser, then you've missed the point, and you'll never, ever find it. Kornheiser is a perfect example of the know-nothing blowhards who have air time before the nation and the world. Rather than admit ignorance and move on to things he knows, he makes himself look foolish and uninformed on the subject. He does the same for hockey or any other sport he doesn't "get".

If everyone would read grub's post, you'll see someone who gets it. (A few of you do as well, judging by the back-and-forth in this thread.) The MLS is paying homage to the established leagues. This is not an [North] American sport, like baseball, football, basketball and hockey. As such, this is an attempt at adhering to the conventions of the best-known, successful leagues. Fans of soccer in America usually follow foreign leagues; these are the fans MLS is reaching out to, and by using foreign naming conventions, they're reaching out to people who don't find them weird and unusual.

Would "Houston 1836" be better if it truly adhered to German conventions, and the team was "Houston 06"? Fine with me, using the year of the club's inception.

Nicknames, as was said earlier, are earned from others, not given by yourself... like George Costanza and "T-Bone". Our most prized nicknames in this country on the pro and college nicknames came from all precincts - uniform colors, sportswriters, the team's own fans, the team's sworn enemies. They evolved. And so it will with the MLS teams.

For a counterpoint, look at some European leagues that play "American sports". The top levels of the British hockey and basketball leagues use American naming conventions ("The [city] [plural nickname]") and everyone is cool with that. Same thing with the Chinese basketball league ("Shanghai Sharks") - they even use names that sound alliterative in English! Face it - leagues seeking legitimacy will always imitate the most successful leagues, just like similar models in other businesses. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and this is a bouquet to the Premier League, the Bundesliga and Serie A. Get over it; they're probably not appealing to you, team names be damned.

So will the players be 1836s? The goalie meets up with the goalie from KC. "I'm a Wizard." "Really? I'm an 1836!" Or maybe, "I'm a 36." Or, "I'm a 36-24-36". Just call yourselves the Houston Eurotrash and get it over with already.

Weak. What's an individual member of the Orlando NBA team? A Trick? A Magician? And while we're at it, ask the same questions of NBAers in Miami and Utah, NHLers in Tampa Bay, Minnesota and Colorado, collegiate athletes in Syracuse, Notre Dame and Illinois, and more than half of MLS.

Well its things like this and the fact that soccer is incredibly boring that keeps me from watching it as with most other Americans. Hell I watch Golf and I finmd that more exciting then soccer.

[swisherHOU]

Another twist to the branding of Houston 1836...

Apparently, there are members of the Spanish-language media in Houston who are saying that Major League Soccer and club management made a poor choice in branding Houston 1836... well, at least if the club is looking to attract Mexican-american fans. These media members claim that the name is needlessly divisive, given that 1836 was not only the year in which Houston was founded, but the year in which Texas rebelled against Mexican rule. It's their contention that Mexican-American fans may boycott the team over the name.

It remains to be seen whether Houston-based Mexican-American sports consumers and soccer fans truly have a problem with the name or whether the Spanish-language media is simply trying to drum up a controversy to lift ratings.

Stay tuned.

But if you know anything about Texas history, you would know that Mexicans fought for Texas as well. Seguin, Texas is named after Juan Seguin, perhaps the most famous Mexican soldier to fight for Texas' independence. (Of coarse what happens to him later is another story)

Point being, the Mexican community in Houston is probably glad that Texas won it's independence. Otherwise they would have to live in Oklahoma.

Are European-born Americans (traditional soccer fans, just as Mexicans) offended by the New England Revolution?

[duma]

I agree that the fans should come up with the nickname. DC United supporters are called the Screaming Eagles. I think thats a cool nickname for the team. Dallas, Houston, and Real will come up with their nicknames in time.

[-kj]

Hell I watch Golf and I finmd that more exciting then soccer.

This probably says more about you than it does the sport.