Bonds vs. Selig *merged*

[LEWJ]

--

[CS85]

I'm reading the article, and here's what it says in a poorly done paraphrasing by yours truly:

May 22, 1998 - Bonds is in town for a series against the Cardinals, McGwire is of course smashing records and looking all swollen. Bonds got married, but on this trip was with his mistress Kimberly Bell, who he'd been fooling with for about 4 years. It was supposed to be a fun weekend for Barry and his babe, but he was pissed. Why? Everybody was talking about McGwire.

Big Mac, who resembled a large tree in a baseball uniform, was hitting balls out of parks left and right, and everybody declared his race for Ruth and Maris was on. Bonds was all over McGwire's success because he was white, and since he was white, the black fan-favorite (and likely just as juiced) Sosa was never going to win the race, because "they" wouldn't let him win it.

Bonds had a great year. Batted .303, 37 homers, and made the all star team. Nobody cared about him, however. McGwire and Sosa were kings. As we all know, McGwire got 70 and Sosa lost by 4. Barry was angered at the worship over McGwire, who Bonds considered inferior. At age 34, and a mix of speed and power, Barry was getting up in years, was making millions and living a good life, a spot in the hall of fame was likely be there as well once he hung them up. After 98, however, his status fell like a rock. Bonds had been in enough gyms to tell that Big Mac, America's Sweetheart was juicing. But the lack of attention hurt Bonds ego so much that he began using "the s**t."

So he began working out like a maniac with a new trainer, tailoring his program specifically for power muscles, while still maintaining agility. However, this new guru was a steroid user and dealer named Greg Anderson. Bonds couldn't resist the effects of the drugs and said he'd do it. Anderson was hired by bonds year-round to be his personal trainer, going with him to Spring Training every year, where eventually Anderson would supply other Giants as well.

Bonds pushed himself to new limits. More weights, more reps, longer workouts. He was getting huge. Anderson, however, was not paid well, and was often verbally abused if he failed to heed Bonds' word. But Anderson continued to regimen Bonds' drug feed, ignoring side-effects and warnings.

In years when Barry should've been slowing down, he was becoming the greatest hitter to ever live. Bonds never had a stash of drugs, Anderson always kept them with him, and injected him when the cycle came around. Winstrol was the primary steroid at this time, and takes months to leave your system. But hell, baseball didn't have a drug testing system at this time, so it didn't matter to him. Bonds looked inflated. His workout routine and anti-exhaustion+muscle building drugs worked wonders, and Barry was huge. He would often look at himself in the mirror, and had gained 15 pounds, 225 pounds of rock hard muscle.

When he came into spring training in 1999 players called him "the incredible hulk." It led to a lot more questions as he began belting homers out of the park farther than ever. Reporters didn't meddle, despite the fact that a 34 year old man had gained 15 pounds and morphed his physique in 100 days. The Giants, along with manager Dusty Baker took the path of ignorance. If they pursued the issue, the oft-crabby Bonds would get upset, and with a new ballpark opening, they didn't want to upset their main attraction.

Bonds blew out his elbow after a hot start of .366 4 homers, 12 rbi in 12 games. The steroids had put muscles on too fast and made them too big, and the tendons couldn't handle the strain of such huge muscles. Recovering with his mistress, he told her that most baseball players used them, and he was only doing so to recover from injuries faster. The fans were told that it was simply wear and tear of a long career. After 7 weeks on the DL, and pulled his groin in June. Only playing in 102 games in 99, he hit 34 homers (1 for every 10.4 at bats) but McGwire was still smashing homers, getting 65 and 147 RBI. When St. Louis came to town, Bonds lost it. McGwire's batting practice was often a huge spectacle, and ropes were put out to control the crowds. Bonds said "What the f*** is this? Not in my house!" and knocked down the ropes. Muscle pain and emotional distress haunted Bonds in 1999, and Greg Anderson had to retool his steroid program.

In 2000, Barry was at the Big League Challenge in Vegas and lost in the semifinals to the big winner Jose Canseco. After seeing Canseco take off his shirt, which revealed 255 pounds of chiseled muscle, Bonds asked him how he got that way. Anderson provided the answer with 2 new drugs: Deca-Durabolin and Human Growth Hormone/HGH. The HGH was Barry's favorite, as it strengthened his joints and allowed him to keep his physique without as much work. At 35, Barry was in his new prime.

After Pac-Bell Park was built, Bonds thought it was made for him, and demanded that Anderson and his 2 other fitness coaches be brought with him. The Giants official training staff didn't want anything to do with them, and desired that they be banned from the clubhouse. After the giants investigated the 3 trainers, with full knowledge that Anderson was a rumored dealer and user, they allowed their star to keep his staff. He batted .306 49 homers and 106 RBIs, but his hated teammate Jeff Kent won the MVP award. He seethed, but had a great year nonetheless, getting bigger by the day.

Nobody noticed this more than mistress Kimberly Bell. Bonds had gotten divorced, and promised to never marry again. He told her he usually dated strippers, but this new relationship was one he wanted to try. He'd send her up to $10,000 cash every now and then, and he always told her what to do with it. A new tv, even breast augmentation. She was Bonds' dream girl. She did what she was told without argument, never complained. Even when Barry told her he was living with a girl named Liz Watson. He told her that Watson was going to marry him, and said that nothing changed, he needed to be married or his ex-wife would get custody of his kids. Plus, Liz was black, and it was important for him to marry a black woman. He had "gotten too much s**t" from the media last time for marrying a white woman.

Their relationship resumed after the honeymoon, and Bonds' steroid circus was in full swing. He became abusive, irritable, and overly controlling. He was so rude that the only people willing to hang out with him were people he paid to do so. He lost his hair, his head grew larger, his back was covered in acne. Bonds would look in the mirror in shock asking where it was coming from. He was often sexually dysfunctional, and his temper lashed at Bell. He demaned Bell tell him everywhere she was day and night, and that he would kill her if she saw anyone else. She saved his hateful voicemails, and he would go through tapes on her answering machine constantly. He bought her a house in Scottsdale, and it was the beginning of the end.

In 2001, Bonds was hot. You could roll the ball towards the plate and he'd golf it a mile. After hitting the 73 of lore that more fans questioned than appreciated. It was anticlimactic, breaking a 3-year old record wasn't as exciting as McGwire's smashing of a 37-year old mark. The reasons for this ho-hum reaction were Bonds' image. He was self-absorbed and surly, and unpopular outside of San Fran. He said it was because "he was a black man in a white man's game." The unnatural growth of Bonds was also in question. McGwire was pretty big throughout his career. Bonds transformed drastically from an athletic ballplayer to juicy mcjuicerton.

The fans were unsettled as well. Records were supposed to last. It was too soon, and something was awry. With McGwire breaking down, Bonds soared into stardom. On the rare occassion he would come out of his shell with the media, he would tell them that his new power was from God, and that he didn't understand it more than they did. Greg Anderson began dealing w/ Victor Conte of BALCO, who had a stable of atheletes under his name. He began taking Clear, or "rocket fuel," and told the media that his workout was extremely intense and he took a modern-science supplement of nutrients and vitamins. Bonds did indeed workout like mad, and invited a reporter of the New York Times Magazine to observe a workout routine, which portrayed him as an extremely hard worker and Greg Anderson as a nutritional technician.

Conte kept Bonds in check, running him through constant blood and urine tests, making sure it was all undetectable. Bonds was dropping like mad, using insulin, "mexican bean" steroids, testosterone, trenbolone (cattle steroid), all put into what he called his "man bag." Anderson tracked Bonds cycles, but once his home runs started to tail off, he would tell him to ":censored: off, I'll do it myself." Friends contended that Bonds was misunderstood, and had become a better person after his failed marraige. After hitting 73, Bonds declared he wanted his personal training staff written into his new contract.

At 38, Bonds won his first batting title (.370 and 46 homers along with 198 walks). The new drug cycle provided by Conte featured HGH every other day, and a variety of different drugs including the Clear, as well as a drug for infertile women. That year the Giants went to the world series after Bonds won MVP, but lost in 7 games. Afterwords Bonds declared he was never fated to play on a championship team, only to break records individually. Then the shoe dropped.

Ken Caminiti came clean in 2002 about his steroid abuse. MLB was pressured after this to make steroid testing mandatory. Olympic atheletes laughed off the baseball policy, it was so pathetic. Bud Selig stood by it, however, and the fear rose among players. Bonds as well feared being exposed as a fraud. Bonds was talking to a friend who was wearing a wire and told him of his undetectable drugs. "The stuff I have, we created it. You can't buy it anywhere else. You can take it the day of a drug test, pee, and it comes up clear. See, like Mario Jones and them - it's the same stuff they went to the olympics with and they test them every :censored:ing week. So that's why I know it works, so that's why I know we're no in trouble. So that's cool."

Bonds had a slow start in 2003, but exploded after the all-star break, getting another MVP award. That year, Barry felt it was time for Kim Bell to go. He bought her the Scottsdale house using money from memorabilia signings, autograph sessions, and appearances. Bonds went to New York where he met a centerfold from Europe, and took her to games with him instead of Bell. He overspent on his new hussy, and Bell went in debt from the house payments. She became frantic, and Bonds had her meet him in Cincinatti. Her plane was late and she had blown his entire schedule. The livid Barry grabbed her by the throat, slammed her against the wall and told her "if you ever :censored:ing pull some s**t like that again I'll kill you, do you understand me?"

She went home to Arizona and Bonds went on his way with the club. They met again in Arizona during a Diamondbacks series. He told her after a game that Bell needed to disappear, and to disappear for good. Not soon after this, the IRS cracked down, and raided the BALCO offices. Victor Conte cooperated and laid out his entire groundplan, complete with the occasional lie, including his client list. The information found by the raid was very precise, who used what, when, where, and how much. They found Anderson, and despite his claim that he only sold steroids on a limited basis, discovered $60,000 in a safe. An athelete who heard of Anderson's troubles, and recalled that Anderson kept all his records on computer, tried desperately to get ahold of Bonds. "They're raiding Victor," he said and urged somebody to tell Anderson to get rid of all that information.

The grand jury trials began. Bonds breifly discussed his association with Anderson and BALCO. But after being presented with pages and pages of damning evidence, to which he answered vaguely, admitting nothing. He told them that whatever he took's contents were unknown to him, saying that he thought Anderson was giving him flaxseed oil for pain releif. People who knew Bonds knew this was unfiltered steaming manure of the bull variety. He knew nothing, saw nothing, he had become braindead. He never heard of steroids, and the names of them were unpronouncable and foreign. He left the courtroom confident he had saved his image and his name, but soon enough the government would learn all that Bonds' inner circle knew, and that his condemning was inescapable.

This book could be Barry's own "Dowd Report." His reputation will be damned, and let's all hope he never hits another home run, and never steps into another major league park.

[CS85]

ROFL!! Check this out:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46188

[brinkeguthrie]

ROFL!!  Check this out:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46188

One of the funniest things I have ever read.

[NJTank]

That is classic

[brinkeguthrie]

NBCSports.com news services

Updated: 4:57 p.m. ET March 9, 2006

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - Bud Selig wants to read the book before making any decisions about Barry Bonds, but he is apparently is considering a wide range of responses, including suspension, one report said.

"It's even worse than I thought," Selig said, the Chicago Tribune reported Thursday, citing an unnamed source who discussed the situation with him.

Selig wouldn't rule out suspending Bonds, the Tribune reported, citing a "highly placed MLB source." Although Selig is known for not acting quickly, he could issue a suspension before the Giants' home opener April 3, the Tribune reported.

Although the players union probably would challenge any suspension, Selig would save some face by trying to suspend Bonds, the Tribune reported.

Selig has no plans to meet with the San Francisco star. Instead, the commissioner will wait.

?I will review all the material that?s relative in every way,? he said at a press conference Wednesday. ?Obviously, we?ve only seen parts of things.

?The book itself doesn?t come out until the end of the month,? he said in Phoenix at the World Baseball Classic game between Canada and the United States. ?But we will review everything there is to look at and at some appropriate time I?ll have further comment, but I don?t have any further comment at this point.?

But Selig did meet with Bonds two years ago and offered the star the chance to come clean about steroids, the Tribune reported, citing unnamed highly placed baseball sources. And in that meeting Selig warned Bonds that the punishment would be "much worse" if he denied everything then but was later found to be a steroid user, the Tribune reported.

Meanwhile, former commissioner Fay Vincent and the lawyer who investigated Pete Rose for him called on Selig to hire an outside investigator to research the allegations against Bonds.

?I think he should hire somebody like John Dowd or set up a committee,? Vincent said Thursday in a telephone interview. ?He needs to do that, maybe headed by Mario Cuomo or George Mitchell, somebody of that ilk.?

Vincent hired Dowd in 1989 to investigate Pete Rose, who agreed to a lifetime ban from baseball after it was found that he bet on the Cincinnati Reds. Rose publicly admitted in 2004 that he did bet on the Reds while he was the manager.

?One of the first things to do is talk to Bonds,? Vincent said. ?Will he cooperate? If he doesn?t, I think that leads to disaster for Bonds. The union would make a big mistake by being too defensive here. Congress could step in.?

The Giants responded to Selig?s comments by saying they would cooperate fully with the commissioner.

?The Giants fully support and will assist with commissioner Bud Selig?s review of the circumstances surrounding the recent published report about Barry Bonds,? the team said in a statement.

Bonds, who has repeatedly denied using performance-enhancing drugs, posted a note on his Web site thanking fans for their support without mentioning the newest allegations. His lawyer, meanwhile, questioned the book?s credibility.

All around baseball, Bonds was topic No. 1.

Boston pitcher David Wells said Bonds should ?be a man and come out and say that he did it? if he used steroids. Wells said Bonds ?probably? used them.

?If you?re guilty and you got caught, come clean. I think you can get a lot more respect from people than (by) lying,? Wells said.

Roger Clemens offered another opinion.

?I worry more about the man?s health than I do about him hitting home runs or whatever this witch hunt we?re on,? the Team USA ace said.

?I think he got hammered pretty good last year, and it seems to be happening again this year. I don?t know if it?s going to change anything,? he said.

Yankees manager Joe Torre said Bonds? Hall of Fame status was up to individual voters. He said the overall steroids scandal had given the sport ?a black eye? and watered down the home run marks.

?I think right now we have already diluted that,? he said.

Bonds, with 708 home runs and only 48 shy of breaking Hank Aaron?s career record, was absent from Giants? camp because of a hearing that was scheduled more than a month ago. But it certainly fell at the right time to provide him a brief respite, a day after Sports Illustrated released excerpts from ?Game of Shadows,? written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters.

?I want to thank you all for your e-mails and the words of support and encouragement yesterday,? Bonds wrote on his Web site.

?There are a lot of exciting things going on in baseball right now. I would like to congratulate Team USA on their win over Mexico. I continue to be focused about this spring and the upcoming season. Later, Barry Bonds.?

© 2006 NBC Sports.com

© 2006 MSNBC.com

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11733583/

[TBGKon]

na na naa na, hey hey hey, goodbye! (sung like the song)

[NJTank]

Bud Selig is an idiot. Worse then he thought? Maybe if he didnt burry his head in the sand or cover his ears closes his eyes and humm loudly he would have known what was going on.

[CaolinaJoe]

How can you retroactively suspend a guy? He hasn't popped on any MLB drug test. Hasn't been charged with perjury from when he denied any use. Other than everyones belief and opinion, what actual EVIDENCE is there that he used. I'm not talking about gossip, testimony from guys trying to make deals to stay out of jail, a mistress trying to cash in, or journalist trying to make a name. I'm talking cold hard evidence. Blood, urine, or photos.

Do I think he did it? Yeah. But so what. No one knows for sure or at least can prove it yet.

[CS85]

How can you retroactively suspend a guy? He hasn't popped on any MLB drug test. Hasn't been charged with perjury from when he denied any use. Other than everyones belief and opinion, what actual EVIDENCE is there that he used. I'm not talking about gossip, testimony from guys trying to make deals to stay out of jail, a mistress trying to cash in, or journalist trying to make a name. I'm talking cold hard evidence. Blood, urine, or photos.

Do I think he did it? Yeah. But so what. No one knows for sure or at least can prove it yet.

The book has recordings of Bonds talking about it freely, they have court records and paperwork from BALCO piled up on Bonds and plenty of other juicers who got Conte's services. They have testimony of witnesses and have been following this for years. I'm pretty sure Bonds will go down in flames.

[Bleujayone]

The point here isn't so much that he did steroids, but that he lied to Selig's face when given the chance to come clean in private. I imagine that Selig would have be far more forgiving (if for nothing else that for the sake of the game) if Bonds had told him the truth. Selig now looks like an even bigger fool in public because he defended Bonds. If I were him, I'd be more angered because of that.

Think about it this way; you're the big boss of a company, you find out one of your workers lied to you. Any other industry and this guy is out on his rear. If Selig did warn Bonds that if he was caught lying later he would bury him, then the stage is already set and it's just a matter of whether or not Selg has the balls to follow through. If he doesn't, he shouldn't have the big chair.

Bud Selig is without a doubt one of the most gutless commissioners sports has ever seen. Either $#!+ or get off the pot! Suspend him or don't, but don't turn this into a lingering issue. Wait too long to make a statement and it won't matter what you decided because the sport will suffer regardless.

[brinkeguthrie]

'Bud Selig is without a doubt one of the most gutless commissioners sports has ever seen."

Gutless? Just gutless?

You forgot clueless, inept, & out of touch.

If he hauls BB into his office and says 'suspended' to him I will be AMAZED.

[jkrdevil]

How can you retroactively suspend a guy? He hasn't popped on any MLB drug test. Hasn't been charged with perjury from when he denied any use. Other than everyones belief and opinion, what actual EVIDENCE is there that he used. I'm not talking about gossip, testimony from guys trying to make deals to stay out of jail, a mistress trying to cash in, or journalist trying to make a name. I'm talking cold hard evidence. Blood, urine, or photos.

Do I think he did it? Yeah. But so what. No one knows for sure or at least can prove it yet.

Aren't all suspensions retroactive. Afterall the suspension comes after you do something. In this case it's a few years after but still it can be done unless MLB has a statute of limitations for suspensions.

MLB can certaintly launch it's own investigations to where they could prove steroid use with out a positive test. And as these appear to predate the set suspensions for positive test it would give Selig a wide range of suspensions.

[Cujo]

The authors also allege Bonds used two designer steroids, the cream and the clear, as well as insulin, human growth hormone, testosterone decanoate (referred to as Mexican beans) and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You suck, Bar-oid. I doubt that throwing on a wig and a halter top is going to make this go away.

[FiddySicks]

The Bonds situation has been a ticking time bomb for a long time.  Look at a Pittsburgh Pirates photo from 1986 and compare it to now.  That's not the result of a "solid training regiment"...let's get real.  That's like Michelle Kwan playing linebacker for the Steelers in 6 years.

How? You do realize that it is possible to naturally put on that kind of muscle in the course of TWO DECADES Thats the thing that almost EVERYONE is missing, comparing his size now to his size TWENTY YEARS AGO os so rediculous. Thats like comparing a 15 year old to a 35 year old. It makes ZERO sense. I htink Roger Clemens said it best, people need to get off of this which hunt and get back to baseball.

And heres another thing. For those of you so caught up on Kirby Puckett.

Kirby Puckett in 1986

Kirby Puckett in 1991.

[CaolinaJoe]

How can you retroactively suspend a guy?  He hasn't popped on any MLB drug test.  Hasn't been charged with perjury from when he denied any use.  Other than everyones belief and opinion, what actual EVIDENCE is there that he used.  I'm not talking about gossip, testimony from guys trying to make deals to stay out of jail, a mistress trying to cash in, or journalist trying to make a name.  I'm talking cold hard evidence.  Blood, urine, or photos.

Do I think he did it? Yeah.  But so what.  No one knows for sure or at least can prove it yet.

Aren't all suspensions retroactive. Afterall the suspension comes after you do something. In this case it's a few years after but still it can be done unless MLB has a statute of limitations for suspensions.

MLB can certaintly launch it's own investigations to where they could prove steroid use with out a positive test. And as these appear to predate the set suspensions for positive test it would give Selig a wide range of suspensions.

What he "allegedly" did wasn't against the rules at the time, and they can't prove any violations after the start of the rule. That's like going back and taking all Gaylord Perry's wins away after they made the spitball illegal.

What court records? You mean all the secret, unreleased testimony from the grand jury?

Recordings of Bonds talking freely? I surely the missed the ESPN onslaught of playing those.

Again, why no criminal charges? He had immunity from everything but perjury. And after the Congress fiasco don't you think they'd press charges if they had something, anything.

[CS85]

The major comparison is from the 1998 Bonds to the 2001 Bonds. Night & day.

[CS85]

How can you retroactively suspend a guy?  He hasn't popped on any MLB drug test.  Hasn't been charged with perjury from when he denied any use.  Other than everyones belief and opinion, what actual EVIDENCE is there that he used.  I'm not talking about gossip, testimony from guys trying to make deals to stay out of jail, a mistress trying to cash in, or journalist trying to make a name.  I'm talking cold hard evidence.  Blood, urine, or photos.

Do I think he did it? Yeah.  But so what.  No one knows for sure or at least can prove it yet.

Aren't all suspensions retroactive. Afterall the suspension comes after you do something. In this case it's a few years after but still it can be done unless MLB has a statute of limitations for suspensions.

MLB can certaintly launch it's own investigations to where they could prove steroid use with out a positive test. And as these appear to predate the set suspensions for positive test it would give Selig a wide range of suspensions.

What he "allegedly" did wasn't against the rules at the time, and they can't prove any violations after the start of the rule. That's like going back and taking all Gaylord Perry's wins away after they made the spitball illegal.

What court records? You mean all the secret, unreleased testimony from the grand jury?

Recordings of Bonds talking freely? I surely the missed the ESPN onslaught of playing those.

Again, why no criminal charges? He had immunity from everything but perjury. And after the Congress fiasco don't you think they'd press charges if they had something, anything.

ESPN has always been pro-Barry, and actually is recording a reality show called "Bonds On Bonds" which is being produced by...EOE, or ESPN Original Entertainment, and follows him throughout the 2006, and presumably his last, season.

They've got an investment in this show, and if Bonds gets the shelf, they bite the bullet and air nothing. If you watched SportsCenter yesterday as the news broke of the book, they didn't show the Bonds rumors until about 10 minutes into the show, when it was clearly the biggest story. ESPN is going to push this aside until:

1. The book is released, and the information becomes public.

2. The sources are deemed concrete and Bonds is implicated.

3. MLB takes action against/for Bonds.

Nobody's really sure what's going on with the show right now, but in a month we'll likely find out how hot of water our buddy Barry is in.

BTW the San Francisco Chronicle (who the 2 authors of the book work for) printed testimony without permission from the Federal Grand Jury indictments, and broke the news about Giambi's admission of juicing, remember?

Here is the documentation of the authors research, to ease your worries:

1. Over 1000 pages of documents and interviews with more than 200 people.

2. Transcripts of the secret grand jury testimony of Barry Bonds and 7 other prominent professional atheletes.

3. Confidential memorandums detailing federal agents' interviews with other athelets and trainers who had direct knowledge of BALCO.

4. Sealed material of unredacted versions of affidavits filed by the BALCO investigators.

5. E-Mails between Victor Conte and several atheletes and coaches regarding the use and distribution of drugs.

6. Evidence seized from the BALCO storage locker.

7. Documents prepared to brief participants in the BALCO raid.

8. Memos detailing the statements of Conte, BALCO VP James Velente and Greg Anderson that were meant to go to IRS special agent Jeff Novitsky, which were later put in the public file.

9. BALCO search warrant affidavits and other court records.

10. Recordings made without Greg Anderson's knowledge in 2003 by a person familiar with him where Anderson acknowledged that Bonds was using an undetectable performance enhancing drug to beat MLB tests.

11. Kimberly Bell's legal correspondence, transcripts, and voicemail audio tapes, and other documents.

12. Confessions of steroid dealers familiar with Anderson & Bonds.

13. Accounts of a Bonds' confidant.

14. Documentary and circumstancial evidence.

15. A friend of Bonds' with specific knowlege of his use.

The proof of Bonds use exists, most of it in possession of federal agents, a lot of it in public domain as well.

This is all in this months Sports Illustrated in more detail, so grab it there.

[STL FANATIC]

Bucfan, I agree with you in terms of comparing him 20 years apart. That is ridiculous.

It's the 1997ish photos vs. the 2002ish photos that I think makes you wonder (especially when you realize Bonds didn't change that much from 1983 to 1997--the natural prime of his career).

I'm a big advocate that the muscle can be gained legally. I still stick up for Big Mac. He got big, but everyone around him noted his crazy workout schedule. The legal andro he was taking tells me he took supplements to help him build muscle, but there's no reason to believe those supplements weren't just as legal as andro.

The thing about Bonds is he has TONS of other evidence to go with his muscle size jump that suggests he took illegal steriods.

I wish I had this clarified, but I'm pretty sure that while baseball didn't have a strict testing method for steriods, most anabolic and others that Bonds is alleged to have taken were outlawed by the MLB by around 1990. Also, many of those were already illegal in the US, period.

So he WAS breaking rules.

[FiddySicks]

The point here isn't so much that he did steroids, but that he lied to Selig's face when given the chance to come clean in private. I imagine that Selig would have be far more forgiving (if for nothing else that for the sake of the game) if Bonds had told him the truth. Selig now looks like an even bigger fool in public because he defended Bonds. If I were him, I'd be more angered because of that.

Do you have any legitimate proof that Bonds used steriods? And when i say legitimate, i mean something thats not these stupid books? Im shocked at most of you. If you were real baseball fans, no matter your feelings towards Bonds, to not be just infuriated at the thought that a man could be suspended from the game of baseball with no REAL proof that he did anything wrong just blows my mind. what ever happpened to INNOCENT untill proven guilty? I think Roger Clemens said it best, we need to stop this which hunt and get back to whats really important, baseball.

If Selig suspends Bonds without proof, Major League Baseball can kiss my ass, because im done with it.