GATORS IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!

[Broken Record]

If Michigan would've taken care of their business on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about it. They'd be playing for the national championship. Fact is, they had a shot to knock off the top dog and they lost.

...and what about Florida not taking care of their business on the field in Auburn?

And what about Michigan worrying about itself and not someone else. Win all of your games and you don't have to whine about someone else taking your spot. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot that Florida fans would be complaining just as loud if not louder and I'd say the same thing to them.

[Squeaks4]

If Michigan would've taken care of their business on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about it. They'd be playing for the national championship. Fact is, they had a shot to knock off the top dog and they lost.

...and what about Florida not taking care of their business on the field in Auburn?

And what about Michigan worrying about itself and not someone else. Win all of your games and you don't have to whine about someone else taking your spot. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot that Florida fans would be complaining just as loud if not louder and I'd say the same thing to them.

Haha, I am FAR from being a Michigan fan. I actually hate Michigan but I find it INCREDIBLY jacked up they are not in the National Championship game. I am not sure why it is bothering so much but don't take my rebuttals as me being a Michigan fan just "complaining" about how they aren't in the game.

You are the one who brought up Michigan not taking care of their business on the field (in an attempt to explain why they are not playing in the NC) while the team that is playing in the NC didn't take care of their "business" against a lower ranked team. Your argument carries NO weight.

[Broken Record]

If Michigan would've taken care of their business on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about it. They'd be playing for the national championship. Fact is, they had a shot to knock off the top dog and they lost.

...and what about Florida not taking care of their business on the field in Auburn?

And what about Michigan worrying about itself and not someone else. Win all of your games and you don't have to whine about someone else taking your spot. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot that Florida fans would be complaining just as loud if not louder and I'd say the same thing to them.

Haha, I am FAR from being a Michigan fan. I actually hate Michigan but I find it INCREDIBLY jacked up they are not in the National Championship game. I am not sure why it is bothering so much but don't take my rebuttals as me being a Michigan fan just "complaining" about how they aren't in the game.

You are the one who brought up Michigan not taking care of their business on the field (in an attempt to explain why they are not playing in the NC) while the team that is playing in the NC didn't take care of their "business" against a lower ranked team. Your argument carries NO weight.

Sorry that I wasn't clear about that, but I wasn't accusing you of being Michigan fan. It's pretty obvious from your avatar and sig that you are not. I was addressing that comment to Michigan fans in general and specifically to Michigan fans whining about not getting TWO shots at OSU. It is my opinion that Michigan got their shot and they blew it and I don't want to see them play OSU again. I'd rather another team get a shot. It is my stronger opinion that anyone who has a loss and is whining about not getting into the Nat'l Championship game needs to get over it because their argument always comes back to "well, so what, they had a loss too." Maybe that's not whining where you come from, but it sounds a lot like whining to me. Is that unfair? Sometimes it is, but we don't need every sport to have it's champion wrapped up in a nice bow for us. Let's leave some room for discussion. Heck, let's down right argue about it and both be right. Such is the beauty of D1 football.

[Squeaks4]

If Michigan would've taken care of their business on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about it. They'd be playing for the national championship. Fact is, they had a shot to knock off the top dog and they lost.

...and what about Florida not taking care of their business on the field in Auburn?

And what about Michigan worrying about itself and not someone else. Win all of your games and you don't have to whine about someone else taking your spot. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot that Florida fans would be complaining just as loud if not louder and I'd say the same thing to them.

Haha, I am FAR from being a Michigan fan. I actually hate Michigan but I find it INCREDIBLY jacked up they are not in the National Championship game. I am not sure why it is bothering so much but don't take my rebuttals as me being a Michigan fan just "complaining" about how they aren't in the game.

You are the one who brought up Michigan not taking care of their business on the field (in an attempt to explain why they are not playing in the NC) while the team that is playing in the NC didn't take care of their "business" against a lower ranked team. Your argument carries NO weight.

Sorry that I wasn't clear about that, but I wasn't accusing you of being Michigan fan. It's pretty obvious from your avatar and sig that you are not. I was addressing that comment to Michigan fans in general and specifically to Michigan fans whining about not getting TWO shots at OSU. It is my opinion that Michigan got their shot and they blew it and I don't want to see them play OSU again. I'd rather another team get a shot. It is my stronger opinion that anyone who has a loss and is whining about not getting into the Nat'l Championship game needs to get over it because their argument always comes back to "well, so what, they had a loss too." Maybe that's not whining where you come from, but it sounds a lot like whining to me. Is that unfair? Sometimes it is, but we don't need every sport to have it's champion wrapped up in a nice bow for us. Let's leave some room for discussion. Heck, let's down right argue about it and both be right. Such is the beauty of D1 football.

After I posted that I kind of felt like a . You have EVERY right to feel the way you do and if you don't want to see a rematch, thats just what you prefer. I am glad you didn't take it the way I was afraid it came off. I think Michigan deserves the right to play Ohio again but I am not saying Florida doesn't have any business in the game. I think you hit the nail when you said. "lets down right argue about it and both be right"

[Broken Record]

If Michigan would've taken care of their business on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about it. They'd be playing for the national championship. Fact is, they had a shot to knock off the top dog and they lost.

...and what about Florida not taking care of their business on the field in Auburn?

And what about Michigan worrying about itself and not someone else. Win all of your games and you don't have to whine about someone else taking your spot. I'm sure if the shoe was on the other foot that Florida fans would be complaining just as loud if not louder and I'd say the same thing to them.

Haha, I am FAR from being a Michigan fan. I actually hate Michigan but I find it INCREDIBLY jacked up they are not in the National Championship game. I am not sure why it is bothering so much but don't take my rebuttals as me being a Michigan fan just "complaining" about how they aren't in the game.

You are the one who brought up Michigan not taking care of their business on the field (in an attempt to explain why they are not playing in the NC) while the team that is playing in the NC didn't take care of their "business" against a lower ranked team. Your argument carries NO weight.

Sorry that I wasn't clear about that, but I wasn't accusing you of being Michigan fan. It's pretty obvious from your avatar and sig that you are not. I was addressing that comment to Michigan fans in general and specifically to Michigan fans whining about not getting TWO shots at OSU. It is my opinion that Michigan got their shot and they blew it and I don't want to see them play OSU again. I'd rather another team get a shot. It is my stronger opinion that anyone who has a loss and is whining about not getting into the Nat'l Championship game needs to get over it because their argument always comes back to "well, so what, they had a loss too." Maybe that's not whining where you come from, but it sounds a lot like whining to me. Is that unfair? Sometimes it is, but we don't need every sport to have it's champion wrapped up in a nice bow for us. Let's leave some room for discussion. Heck, let's down right argue about it and both be right. Such is the beauty of D1 football.

After I posted that I kind of felt like a . You have EVERY right to feel the way you do and if you don't want to see a rematch, thats just what you prefer. I am glad you didn't take it the way I was afraid it came off. I think Michigan deserves the right to play Ohio again but I am not saying Florida doesn't have any business in the game. I think you hit the nail when you said. "lets down right argue about it and both be right"

No worries man. Thanks for the conversation.

[-(dp)-]

If you meant me when you said that Michigan Fans were whining, I wasn't. I do think it is messed up that some people voted the way they did, but I am not trying to say Florida shouldn't have a chance. What makes me mad is people who say Michigan already had their chance. Michigan shouldn't only get a chance at the Horseshoe, when Florida gets a chance at a neutral field. At the same time you could argue (and I agree with both sides) that Michigan shouldn't get a shot at Ohio State on the road and at a neutral field, with Florida not getting a shot at all. I really don't see how people can say Michigan playing at OSU and Florida playing at a neutral field are equal chances. The horseshoe has got to be one of the hardest stadiums to play at. Just because Michigan didn't play an extremely hard schedule, you can not say they aren't a good team. I think people are overrating Florida's schedule strength, but it definitely was not an easy one. Michigan did beat BCS bound Notre Dame in South Bend by 26, and they beat Wisconsin, who is #5 in the AP poll I think, by 14. Really, either way, somebody was going to get left out, and it just happened to be Michigan. I don't see why Florida just jumped Michigan THIS week, when Michigan didn't play, but they are both good teams.I think Michigan is better than most people think they are. A strong argument can be made for both teams, and the only way to settle it is on the field. Well, that won't happen this year, so Michigan just has to focus on USC, but hopefully in the future, we will get some kind of playoff system.

[Broken Record]

Sorry, I didn't mean to call you out personally, but I do think the post where you accused SEC coaches of cheating and said that Florida would get embarrassed sounded like sour grapes to me. My point, again, is that if Michigan had won on the field, they wouldn't have to worry about voters.

[infrared41]

Wow. What a mess. To borrow a line...here are 10 things I think.

1. I think both Michigan and Florida can make a case for playing in the title game. Florida just has a much better case and a better "lawyer" in Urban Meyer.

2. I think the actual game is shaping up to be an awful lot like 2002. This time it's Ohio State playing the role of Miami and Florida is in Ohio State's spot. Florida has a very good shot at winning this game.

3. I think Michigan is the retro-active "second best" team in the nation. If we look back at the season we'll see that it took a lot of losses in front of them for Michigan to climb to number two. Apparently no one thought Michigan was just "three points" worse than Ohio State until about week 8 if memory serves. As of week 6 voters thought that Auburn, Florida, West Virginia, and USC were all better than Michigan. Before their "big win" over Notre Dame, Michigan was number 11. The lowest ranking for Florida all season was number 9. Let's dispense with the "Michigan is clearly the second best team in the nation" argument. If it's so "clear" then why did it take 7 weeks for anyone to even notice?

4. Everyone wants to talk about Michigan "only" losing by three to Ohio State in Columbus. If we're giving out "style points" then where does Michigan needing a last minute goal line stand at home to hold off Ball State rank in the style category?

5. Speaking of style points...I think the 42-39 score is not at all indicative of the actual Ohio State-Michigan game. It was never that close and anyone outside Ann Arbor and a few select ESPN idiots can see that. That said, why does Michigan get a ton of credit for a "good loss" while Florida is being ripped for winning ugly? How far have we fallen through the looking glass when a loss is considered a better argument than 12 ugly wins?

6. I think Jim Tressel did the right thing by not voting. Why should he have a say in who he gets to play. It may be the only thing that was done right in this whole mess. If he votes Michigan he gets accused of playing favorites and doubling the Big Ten payoff. If he votes Florida he gets accused of dodging Michigan. He couldn't win no matter what he did. It was a smart move.

7. I blame the voters for this mess. Not because they helped Florida climb past Michigan but because they left Michigan at number two after the Ohio State game in the first place. They were practically begged to do it by ESPN and the other sports "experts." If you recall the rematch talk started right after Michigan moved to number two in both polls.

8. It's my firm belief that the ESPN/ABC hype machine had as much to do with this mess as anything else. If that had been Florida State and Virginia Tech at one and two instead of Ohio State and Michigan there's no way the loser stays at number two. If the rematch talk hadn't already started before the game was even played there's no way this happens. If you think voters are immune to the hype and can't be influenced you're kidding yourself.

9. Michigan fans your coach cost you another game. Leave it to Lloyd to stay quiet when he needed to be campaigning. Carr taking the high road was a classy move to be sure but in the end Urban Meyer's mouth played a big role in Florida getting a shot in the title game. Lloyd tripped over his own feet...again.

10. Outside of Florida I may be in the minority but I think The Gators are a better team than Michigan. Michigan is certainly a victim of circumstance and under the current system they have a case for playing in the title game but the truth of the matter is Florida still has a much better case. In the end the right team is going to Arizona to play Ohio State. Unfortunately they got there for all the wrong reasons.

That's my humble opinion.

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

congrats to both teams.

[John in KY]

Back on topic - while I agree the BCS is a mess, I would go with Florida over Michigan for the "title" game. My rationale? Florida is also a conference champion, while Michigan is a runner up. You can argue strength of schedule all you want, but for it to be a "National Champion" you have to cut across confernces, not just have a rematch of a conference game. This is particularly true since most teams don't schedule more than one or two games with top teams from other conferences, if at all. Also, we will always have this debate regarding the SEC until teams from that conference consistently schedule games with teams from the other BCS conferences. Aside from in-state rivalries, it seems the top Big 10, Big XII, PAC 10 and ACC teams do a better job of putting themselves in harm's way than the SEC teams.

the big ten doesn't have a 'title' game per se, but for the sake of argument take this scenario.

#1osu over #2michigan, regular season

#2michigan over #1osu, big 10 title game

...so does osu not play for the title in that situation?

Correct, if that were the case then the winner of a "Big 10 Title Game" would go, and since your scenario has Michigan winning that game it would be OSU on the outside looking in from the Rose Bowl.

[rams80]

4. Everyone wants to talk about Michigan "only" losing by three to Ohio State in Columbus. If we're giving out "style points" then where does Michigan needing a last minute goal line stand at home to hold off Ball State rank in the style category?

It ranks about as high as only beating Illinois by a touchdown this year....

[Telemundo219]

5. Speaking of style points...I think the 42-39 score is not at all indicative of the actual Ohio State-Michigan game. It was never that close and anyone outside Ann Arbor and a few select ESPN idiots can see that. That said, why does Michigan get a ton of credit for a "good loss" while Florida is being ripped for winning ugly? How far have we fallen through the looking glass when a loss is considered a better argument than 12 ugly wins?

This one of the best points I've heard anyone make including those of ESPN and sports columnists over America. When did it become about the way you win rather than the W's or L's.

As a gator fan, I have to agree that Florida has been through many close-call games but have they won all of them accept one? You have people saying Michigan's loss was unfair because thy were playing at Ohio State. Well didn't Florida lose at Auburn by really 3 points (excluding the TO to end the game). Wouldn't Ohi Stae have the same claim if the game was at Michigan. You can make a claim for either side but where does it gets us, NOWHERE!! .

8. It's my firm belief that the ESPN/ABC hype machine had as much to do with this mess as anything else. If that had been Florida State and Virginia Tech at one and two instead of Ohio State and Michigan there's no way the loser stays at number two. If the rematch talk hadn't already started before the game was even played there's no way this happens. If you think voters are immune to the hype and can't be influenced you're kidding yourself.

This right here is so right. Its because of ABC/ESpn that USC was even in the national title question. Because of USC's current repitation they were ranked number 2. It's because of ESPN/ABC that in the beginning of the season, Texas jumped Notre Dames as #2 when they were heading into the with #1 Ohio State probably the same reason why Michigan was #2 when they played OSU (not saying they didn't deserve to be). It's all about hype so they can jackup ratings and market the games to make more money. Corporate intent is getting in the way of Athletic talent. And this is why we will continue to have problems with the BCS process.

Michigan's last game was a loss. Florida lost to Auburn before Michigan's loss and USC didn't lose until the last week of the season. So Michigan should have fell under Florida when the lost to OSU regardless of the amount they lost by. Look at Louisville or Rutgers. if they would've stayed underfeated, they would be a possibility of them not getting into the game because of "exposure" or "popularity". The voters try to put themselves over the BCS process and screw things up.

Lastly, before going into the season, I remember people on ESPN saying how Florida had the toughest scheduling and it would be impossible for them to make it too the BCS championship unless they found a way to succeed in the schedule. And lokk where we are. Florida lost 1 game on that "hard" schedule so shouldn't that get them in. I know if was your team, you would be making the same claim.

[See Red]

3. I think Michigan is the retro-active "second best" team in the nation. If we look back at the season we'll see that it took a lot of losses in front of them for Michigan to climb to number two. Apparently no one thought Michigan was just "three points" worse than Ohio State until about week 8 if memory serves. As of week 6 voters thought that Auburn, Florida, West Virginia, and USC were all better than Michigan. Before their "big win" over Notre Dame, Michigan was number 11. The lowest ranking for Florida all season was number 9. Let's dispense with the "Michigan is clearly the second best team in the nation" argument. If it's so "clear" then why did it take 7 weeks for anyone to even notice?

That's just how it works. No matter how badly you're beating teams, it takes teams losing in front of you to move up in the rankings. The preseason rank was based on how good people thought Michigan was going to be, not on anything that actually happened on the field, so them starting so low has nothing to do with whether they are the second best team in the country. Again, that's the position they were put in, to where other teams had to lose for them to move up -- this particular Michigan team did nothing on the field this year, prior to those rankings, to justify being ranked 11th.

[Epiphanic]

And I think that's the problem with the way polls work. It's just the preseason rankings with last weeks result. It's not a true representation of what has happened during the season thus far.

[twi]

And I think that's the problem with the way polls work. It's just the preseason rankings with last weeks result. It's not a true representation of what has happened during the season thus far.

In my perfect world, no ranking until conference play has started. I would say just after the first two weeks or so, but it seems teams have a phobia of playing conference games to start the season.

[slassy]

Everyone is arguing over how whether or not it's fair to Michigan, but what about Ohio State? How is it fair that Michigan would only have to beat tOSU once, but tOSU would have to beat Michigan twice to win the National Championship?

And I can't believe the idiots in the media like Woody Paige and Dennis Dodd who are ripping on Tressel for not voting. All they're really mad about is that it gives them less material to write about. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If he voted for Florida the media would ream him saying he feared a rematch, if he voted Michigan he gets reamed for homering the Big 10 and contradicting himself earlier when he said the non-conference Champion shouldn't play for the National Title.

[jkrdevil]

And I think that's the problem with the way polls work. It's just the preseason rankings with last weeks result. It's not a true representation of what has happened during the season thus far.

In my perfect world, no ranking until conference play has started. I would say just after the first two weeks or so, but it seems teams have a phobia of playing conference games to start the season.

Not publishing polls won't make a difference because each individula voter will still make their pre season poll and base their poll votes off of that. The polls have to be eliminated all together from the formula.

[See Red]

Everyone is arguing over how whether or not it's fair to Michigan, but what about Ohio State? How is it fair that Michigan would only have to beat tOSU once, but tOSU would have to beat Michigan twice to win the National Championship?

What about the fact that Michigan had to play at the Horeshoe, while the biggest disadvantage Ohio State would have to worry about would be a neutral crowd?

As for your last point, I agree completely. I couldn't care less if Tressel voted. Just like you said, he would be grilled no matter who he voted for anyway.

[slightly shotgunned]

Correct, if that were the case then the winner of a "Big 10 Title Game" would go, and since your scenario has Michigan winning that game it would be OSU on the outside looking in from the Rose Bowl.

...and you're perfectly fine with a team that was ranked number 1 all season long not playing in the national title game because they have one loss on their record?

and there are so many "what ifs" i could throw out at you as well. for example. what if osu gets screwed on a bad call at the end of the game and loses by 1. Are you telling me they're not the best team in the country because they didn't win the conference title

(btw...don't read too far into that. while i am a michigan fan, i'm speaking hypothetically...like i have been throughout all posts i've put up. i'm using the teams that are the topics of conversation right now)

4. Everyone wants to talk about Michigan "only" losing by three to Ohio State in Columbus. If we're giving out "style points" then where does Michigan needing a last minute goal line stand at home to hold off Ball State rank in the style category?

5. Speaking of style points...I think the 42-39 score is not at all indicative of the actual Ohio State-Michigan game. It was never that close and anyone outside Ann Arbor and a few select ESPN idiots can see that. That said, why does Michigan get a ton of credit for a "good loss" while Florida is being ripped for winning ugly? How far have we fallen through the looking glass when a loss is considered a better argument than 12 ugly wins?

4. about the same place that florida's LOSS to auburn ranks...but that's another story for another time...

5. interesting. the score not being an indicator of the actual game. ...please explain to me what a close game is then. i mean, osu started the game trailing and never really ran away with the game like you seem to think. don't believe me? check out the box score http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=263220194 ...now if that's wrong let me know...

[-(dp)-]

Everyone is arguing over how whether or not it's fair to Michigan, but what about Ohio State? How is it fair that Michigan would only have to beat tOSU once, but tOSU would have to beat Michigan twice to win the National Championship?

That doesn't matter. One is regular season, one is post season. Two totally different things. Last year in the NBA, the pistons were 3-1 against the heat in the regular season. In the playoffs, the heat were 4-2 against the pistons, so they advanced. What? That isn't fair, the pistons beat the heat more in the regular season! No that don't matter, the heat beat the pistons more in the post-season, which matters more. Even though throughout the whole year, they were 5-5, but the heat went on. They played better in the post season, so they deserved it. The heat only had to win 5 all together against the pistons to move on, but the pistons would have had to win 7. That isn't fair right? Yeah, it IS fair, because once the post season starts, the regular season doesn't matter anymore. If there would have been a rematch, it would be fair, because the regular season wouldn't matter anymore.