Disgusting Hit

[Brass]

Plus, at least Neon_Matrix is putting time and thought into his responses. You seem to be putting seconds into your responses and/or making "witty" jokes that no one understands.

<Stating the Obvious>How do you know if they are "witty" (your quotes, not mine) or not if you can't understand them?</Stating the Obvious>

[Fred T. Jane]

*This Space for Rent*

[Brass]

You have yet to acknowledge the fact I have called you out on your contridictary stance on this whole issue. You are clearly trying to avoid the issue at hand bringing up something else that really isn't relevant. I'm right and you know it - you wouldn't be posting in here if you didn't care about what was happening in Leafs Nation.

It isn't contradictory when the original statement was regarding Leafs' supporters seemingly endless state of "Why are we being persecuted", not the Leafs franchise or its mundane product on the ice, which holds an interest about equal to 0K. Whilst it seems that you can't see the difference between the two, it's obvious I can, hence my comment. Sorry if it's all an anathema to you, but that's just how it is.

Have some sympathy man, forget that it was a Leafs player who was victim and just admit it was a bad hit. Almost everyone else seems to see it, why can't you?

Where did I state that I didn't think it was a bad hit?

You didn't. You just went straight at Neon_Matrix's response to the topic, disregarding your opinion, and going straight for the attack.

[sacker12]

That was a cheap shot. He should be suspended for quite a few games and pay a hefty fine.

[Neon_Matrix]

You have yet to acknowledge the fact I have called you out on your contridictary stance on this whole issue. You are clearly trying to avoid the issue at hand bringing up something else that really isn't relevant. I'm right and you know it - you wouldn't be posting in here if you didn't care about what was happening in Leafs Nation.

It isn't contradictory when the original statement was regarding Leafs' supporters seemingly endless state of "Why are we being persecuted", not the Leafs franchise or its mundane product on the ice, which holds an interest about equal to 0K. Whilst it seems that you can't see the difference between the two, it's obvious I can, hence my comment. Sorry if it's all an anathema to you, but that's just how it is.

Have some sympathy man, forget that it was a Leafs player who was victim and just admit it was a bad hit. Almost everyone else seems to see it, why can't you?

Where did I state that I didn't think it was a bad hit?

Snivel and complain because one of their players got sideswiped? Big deal.

Thats about as close as you get to commenting on the actual topic at hand.

Are you completely incapable responding to the topic that this thread was made for? All you do is keep dodging the question by attacking me personally because you can't seem to come to grips with the fact you CLAIM not to care about anything reguarding the Leafs and yet YOU RESPOND to a thread about them and pretty much avoid talking about the hit or responding to anything I say and instead just decide to open a thesaurus to use words no one here probably actually knows in order to avoid giving a clear answer. The fact you care about the fans alone is enough evidence to prove that your whole stance on the matter is one big contridiction.

I do believe you are the one unable to comprehend anything that is going on in this thread. You can't respond to statements about your intention and you can't even post anything relevant to the topic of this thread. So you know what, instead of attacking me in order to detract from the topic at hand how about you go and re-read the topic of this thread and post something with some actual relavance.

Thank you Brass, I'm glad to see that I'm not alone on this. It is much appreciated.

[Nick 1733]

I feel I should chime in here since I'm a fan of a team that was involved in probably the worst on ice incident intentionally caused by another player, and another very bad one with McCarty.

I saw the hit on Drury for the first time today when I found it on youtube. I have to say that from my POV, both were dirty hits and shouldn't have ever happened. The one on the Leafs player was worse and even more uncalled for than that on Drury, but still both were dirty, IMO.

With both each player hit after the puck was clearly gone and drove themselves, not necessarily their elbows, into the other player with intent to injure.

[slapshot]

Neil's hit was clean. Janssen's wasn't. It was at best an uncalled charge/elbow.

If the instigating penalty was relaxed, no one would be bitching.

I don't see a difference.

Both Neil and Janssen skated out of their way to hit a player in the head area (clearly trying to injure the player seriously) long after that player played the puck. How much more obvious can these two hits be?

Neil didn't skate out of his way to hit Drury. He skated into Drury as Drury followed through on his shot. In plain sight of the referees, there was no penalty because they felt it was a clean hit.

Janssen took at least 3 strides towards a player who had long since cleared the puck away. There was no penalty, because evidently the referees didn't see it.

There's a difference between the refs deeming a play clean, and not seeing it at all.

I think the only reason the Sabres took a run at Neil was because Drury is one of their best players. Had it been a second or third liner, or a scrub just called up from Rochester, I doubt the reaction would have been as severe.

I stand by my statement that if the league were more lenient toward alleged instigating penalties, the players will enforce themselves, and hits like this are less likely to happen.

[Fred T. Jane]

*This Space for Rent*

[Neon_Matrix]

Are you completely incapable responding to the topic that this thread was made for?

Yes.

All you do is keep dodging the question by attacking me personally because you can't seem to come to grips with the fact you CLAIM not to care about anything reguarding the Leafs and yet YOU RESPOND to a thread about them and pretty much avoid talking about the hit or responding to anything I say and instead just decide to open a thesaurus to use words no one here probably actually knows in order to avoid giving a clear answer.

I answered your question. It isn't my fault you don't get it. And for the record, I tend to be just as verbose on a daily basis. Sorry if you feel slighted.

The fact you care about the fans alone is enough evidence to prove that your whole stance on the matter is one big contridiction.

See above.

I do believe you are the one unable to comprehend anything that is going on in this thread. You can't respond to statements about your intention and you can't even post anything relevant to the topic of this thread. So you know what, instead of attacking me in order to detract from the topic at hand how about you go and re-read the topic of this thread and post something with some actual relavance.

What is there to comprehend? The hit was illegal because, among other things, (1) he left the ice in an attempt to hit a player, and (2) led with his elbow. There isn't much wiggle room for discussion of the play in question, unless we want to go into the esoterics of open-ice hitting. GI-issue statements regarding the perceived level of persecution by fans of a certain franchise, on the other hand is a bit more interesting. Of course, perhaps this is all just a clever ruse in order for me to gain entertainment by watching people flail on a message board, completely oblivious to the fact that the situation was purposefully contrived? I wouldn't bet on that, though.

Thank you Brass, I'm glad to see that I'm not alone on this. It is much appreciated.

Smells a bit like the Entente's gratitude toward Liberia after World War I to me...

Well it is pretty sad that you rely on an internet message board for your entertainment. I also dont feel slighted, in fact, I feel sorry for you because you have to rely on a grammatical advantage in order to "show off" just how "smart" you are. Your only advantage is that you can spell a few more words - congrats. That will get you far in this world, just as picking fights on a message board will get you. I really dont care that you have a larger vocabulary than me, it really doesn't prove much besides you can use a word that I wouldn't bother using. Sometimes keeping it simple is the way to go. Feel as high and mighty as you want, try to pretend like youre the smartest person in the world and most accomplished just because you know how to bait an argument - omz, its so hard to do!1!!!1! Show off as much as you want, you'll get all sorts of ladies on here for doing so. They'll flock to you like the West Germans flocked to East Germany after Britain and America merged their occupied zones of Berlin on an economic basis in 1947 (yah, I also know history! OMGZZ!!1!! Please - humor me on this).

Try getting a life, try doing something constructive on a saturday night instead of baiting people like me who will actually step in to defend the fans of my team on a message board. I knew you were baiting a Leafs fan and I was more than willing to bite. Why am I spending my time responding to your crap you may ask? I'm stuck at my computer tonight finishing an essay so it isn't much trouble at all to click a button to return to this page to read the kind of crap you respond with. This really isn't much trouble for me.

Seriously, why bother at all with Leafs fans when you can't care less about the team they support? Why do you spend the time you have trying to generate some kind of arousing entertainment for yourself? It is evident you find us fun because we actually fight back, problem is, you really have not done much to put me or any other Leafs fan down. All you have shown is that you really have nothing better to do down in Louisiana than argue with me. Its quite sad.

BTW, some support is better than the none you are receiving.

[HedleyLamarr]

Neil's hit was clean. Janssen's wasn't. It was at best an uncalled charge/elbow.

If the instigating penalty was relaxed, no one would be bitching.

I don't see a difference.

Both Neil and Janssen skated out of their way to hit a player in the head area (clearly trying to injure the player seriously) long after that player played the puck. How much more obvious can these two hits be?

Neil didn't skate out of his way to hit Drury. He skated into Drury as Drury followed through on his shot. In plain sight of the referees, there was no penalty because they felt it was a clean hit.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post, because your opening line is incorrect.

Watch the video again (muted, so you aren't influenced by Ottawa's coverage), and pay real close attention, especially on the first replay:

You will notice that his general line-of-path is towards the M and H of the Tim Horton's sign. After Drury had passed the puck, Neil takes a direct turn to the right. And Neil doesn't "skate into Drury"...he raised his shoulder and hits Drury with an uppercutting motion (hence the elbow rising up through the hit), and Neil's left skate lifting off the ice as he was hitting Drury.

The only difference is the immediate result. Kaberle was unconscious (I didn't watch the entire 8 minute video), whereas Drury was woozy.

Both Neil and Janssen delivered late, unnecessary hits. Both skated out of their way to make these late, unnecessary hits, and both had intentions of seriously hurting Drury and Kaberle, respectively. Disregard what the officials' rulings are, they can't make retroactive calls.

[Fred T. Jane]

*This Space for Rent*

[Brass]

I still fail to see how Fred T. Jane has contributed to this topic positively at all....

[lopernv]

To everyone who hates the Leafs, or thinks that was a clean hit: Imagine being in Kaberle's shoes (or skates...) and just shut the f*** up.

[CC97]

This was in no way a clean hit... anyone who thinks so doesn't know hockey.

This also has NOTHING to do with the Domi/Nidermayer incident... "leaf fans should shut up?" grow the hell up jkr.

I do see a great difference between this hit and the Drury hit... for one, the Drury hit didn't come nearly as late, nor did Neil jump for the hit, nor did he aim for the head (debatable) -- and the NHL agrees with me.

I don't know why the Leafs players didn't do anything to Janssen after the hit -- the only thing I can think of is that they didn't even see the hit... which goes to show you just how late the hit occurred.

Not a good hit, not a clean hit, this is the type of crap that needs to get out of hockey fast.

[-kj]

I don't know, when I watch the replays, I don't see him "jumping" off his skates, nor do I see him actually contact Kaberle's head--it looks like most of the damage is the contact with the boards. The elbow doesn't look extended, it looks like he's trying to hit with his shoulder and spring his body upwards through the check, gaining leverage, which is how most players are taught to check.

That being said... the hit was incredibly late. Janssen had decided he was hitting Kaberle on that play, but Kaberle got the pass off long before he got there. There was plenty of time for him to avoid that check. By USA Hockey rules, I'd've probably started with a roughing penalty for "late, avoidable contact," which due to the injury would automatically become a major plus game misconduct. Obviously, the NHL runs by a different standard when it comes to such things, but even by NHL standards, that was a very late hit.

As for the question of how the referee who was near the play didn't see it, you can see his head move with the puck, as usually happens with the near official, so he was no longer looking at Kaberle when the hit occurred. The other referee may have seen it, but may not have wanted to make a call that's so close to his partner while he himself was probably about 80' away. However, I would have thought the officials would have conferred and, if that were the case, given a penalty at that point--then again, the NHL does have its own standard, partially for entertainment value.

As for the Fred/Matrix argument, you guys can stop now, and not restart. That'd be great. Doubly so the people trying to join up and choose sides. </mod>

[Brass]

That being said... the hit was incredibly late. Janssen had decided he was hitting Kaberle on that play, but Kaberle got the pass off long before he got there. There was plenty of time for him to avoid that check. By USA Hockey rules, I'd've probably started with a roughing penalty for "late, avoidable contact," which due to the injury would automatically become a major plus game misconduct. Obviously, the NHL runs by a different standard when it comes to such things, but even by NHL standards, that was a very late hit.

And I thank the lord each day that the NHL hasn't adopted rules set by USA Hockey.

[IceCap]

Neon, let it go. For one thing, Fred T. Jane is a Senators fan, so therefore in regards to hockey he's as knowledgeable as a dirty jockstrap (I kid, I kid. What fun is a rivalry if you can't call each other names?).

Seriously though Neon, I wouldn't bother with him. Taking a serious look at the fact that he's a Sens fan, it's no surprise that he takes an anti-Leafs stance. Nothing wrong with that per say, it's just something to be expected.

Add to that the the fact that he has an over-inflated opinion of himself and his intellect, and you have someone that you simply can't have a discussion with. How can you have an argument with someone who assumes he knows everything before hand?

Which brings me to this Fred; We get it, you're a professor, good for you. Posting here, however, like you know everything, that you're smarter then everyone, that you're doesn't smell, it's all getting old.

Putting Borat in your avatar and having "I can find Kazakhstan on a map, can you?" as your member title doesn't make you funny, it makes you seem like an arrogant prick who assumes he's smarter then everyone here. Well you're not Fred, and it's time to start acting that way.

The "intellectual with the inflated ego" act has run it's course.

Sorry if the above seemed out of line. It needed to be said, IMO. I assume all the consequences that may come from it.

The Niel's hit and the Janssen hit are very different. Niel hit Drury after he had passed the puck, but seeing as the pass hadn't been received, it was legal as far as interference goes. Also, Niel didn't aim for the head.

Janssen's hit occurred well after Kaberle has passed the puck and the play had continued. He also left the ice, led with his elbow, and aimed for the head.

One was a clean hit, albeit in poor taste (Niel on Drury), and the other one was a thuggish act that has no room in the NHL (Janssen on Kaberle).

[Brass]

Well said, Icecap. You nailed everything on the head.

[Andy]

Both hits were late. The Janssen hit came two strides later than the Niel hit. I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, but I put them both in the same category. It looks to me like Niel was aiming for Drury's head while Janssen, as Mockba said, had simply decided that he was going to check Kaberle no matter what, and unfortunately caught him unawares and knocked his skull right into the boards.

[-kj]

And I thank the lord each day that the NHL hasn't adopted rules set by USA Hockey.

Except, of course, that USAH's new Standard of Play initiative was developed with guidance from the NHL.