Chicago Cubs Prototype Jerseys

[no97]

Okay, I don't know if any of you know about Murph and Pat Denny Sports, but in their latest newsletter, they had four "Prototype Chicago Cubs Jerseys" listed. Here are the descriptions:

PROTOTYPE JERSEY White pinstripe button-down jersey. Traditional Cubs

circular crest sewn on the left chest. Royal blue shoulders and

sleeves. Royal blue braid around the neck and down the jersey front.

The sleeves have a white braid stripe. MLBB emblem sewn on the back

just below the neckline. Tagged in the lower front with the large

Russell Authentic Collection tag. Tagged in the collar with a Russell

size 46 tag. This is an excellent condition non-team issued jersey.

$106

PROTOTYPE JERSEY Gray knit button-down prototype jersey. Large

circular Cubs patch sewn on the left chest. Royal blue and red sleeve

stripe separated by a thin white stripe. Red and blue Russell "R"

embroidered on the left sleeve. Red, white and blue MLBB emblem patch

on the back just below the neckline. No numbers. Tagged in the lower

front with the large Russell Authentic Collection tag. Below it is a

white tag with "46 100% NYLON" on it in black. This is a mint

condition non-team issued jersey. Size 46. Three available. $118

PROTOTYPE JERSEY Navy blue knit button-down jersey with a red "C" sewn

on the left chest. Red piping around the neck and down the jersey

front as well as around the sleeves. Circular Cubs team patch sewn on

the left sleeve. Screened on white Majestic sleeve emblem. No numbers.

This is a mint condition non-team issued jersey in size XXL. $79

PROTOTYPE JERSEY Royal blue knit button-down jersey. Large red "C"

on the left chest. Red braid around the neck and down the jersey front

as well as each sleeve. Circular Cubs sleeve patch with the word CUBS

in the center. Everything is sewn on except the white Majestic emblem

which is screened on the right sleeve. Nothing on the back. This is a

mint condition non-team worn jersey in size XXL. $79

Naturally, I was quite interested in what these looked like, and since they don't have many photos on the site, I e-mailed for some. Here's what came back:

Quite interesting to say the least... Discuss...

Moose

[Wally1912]

I don't know what the pinstriped one is.

The gray one is an old Expos road blank with the Cubs logo attached.

The bottom two are Majestic fan jerseys with extra patches put on the sleeves. I had seen this style sold at Marshall's and T J Maxx in the last year or so for $20.

[Sodboy13]

Okay, so the grey one is suspect, and the bottom two I've also seen at Marshall's (the bottom tagging and screened Majestic sleeve logo give them away as replicas.) But what intrigues me is the "100% NYLON" tagging on the Expos/Cubs grey jersey. After all, aren't all MLB Authentic jerseys 100% doubleknit polyester? And "Cool Base" wasn't around for the Expos in 2004...

Is it possible the top jersey is a Negro Leagues throwback with a Cubs logo slapped on it? Or just some east-Asian bootleg mishmash?

[CubsFanBudMan]

I'm not familiar with this newsletter, are they suggesting that these are rejected prototypes for new jerseys? Seems doubtful.

I'm not a fan of the pinstripes with sleeves, and the gray looks like what the Daytona Cubs wear in MVP '05. However, it's obvious that the Montreal nameplate is supposed to go across the front because the buttons separate accordingly.

My thought on the Cubs in navy are well-documented here (please, no), but the last pic has potential. I don't mind the piping and loss of the white outline, although it would probably be hard to make out. It reminds me of the Reds alternate from 2-3 years ago. The Cubs patch on the sleeve is unnecessary.

[no97]

I'm not familiar with this newsletter, are they suggesting that these are rejected prototypes for new jerseys? Seems doubtful.

It's a newsletter they send out to let folks know what new products they have on their site, and yes, the inference is that they were rejected prototypes for new Cubs jerseys.

I'm not a fan of the pinstripes with sleeves, and the gray looks like what the Daytona Cubs wear in MVP '05. However, it's obvious that the Montreal nameplate is supposed to go across the front because the buttons separate accordingly.

While I agree with everyone that it looks like a Montreal road, I can't simply dismiss it because of the gap in the buttons. There are several teams that have that gap, despite having no wordmark (note this Tigers jersey):

Moose

[M59]

Okay, so the grey one is suspect, and the bottom two I've also seen at Marshall's (the bottom tagging and screened Majestic sleeve logo give them away as replicas.) But what intrigues me is the "100% NYLON" tagging on the Expos/Cubs grey jersey. After all, aren't all MLB Authentic jerseys 100% doubleknit polyester? And "Cool Base" wasn't around for the Expos in 2004...

Is it possible the top jersey is a Negro Leagues throwback with a Cubs logo slapped on it? Or just some east-Asian bootleg mishmash?

"100% Nylon" jerseys are not common, but they were used. The Expos used them (as they didn't year tag, I don't know when they used them, but I have one), and the Orioles used them in 1996 (home and road only). They're heavy as hell, and were probably brutally hot.

[Gothamite]

That's nothing. You can buy plenty of those "prototypes" on eBay:

Hey - since the Yanks actually considered adopting that as their road jersey, maybe it is a prototype! I can re-sell it for millions!

Seriously, why should we these people any credibility? What's their track record?

[IceCap]

Hey - since the Yanks actually considered adopting that as their road jersey, maybe it is a prototype! I can re-sell it for millions!

If I were a Yankees fan I would buy that jersey in a heartbeat. Just for the sake of having it.

[no97]

Seriously, why should we these people any credibility? What's their track record?

I'll give credibility to Murf Denny Sports any day of the week... Okay, so maybe they were misled on these, but they've got a ton of great stuff on their site, and I've never been disapointed when I've ordered from them (whether it's game-worn stuff or vintage).

As a couple examples of their other stuff (game-worn), here's a Cubs jersey:

#45 Todd Worrell. Royal blue knit button-down game worn jersey. Everything is sewn on. Size 48 by Majestic. Worn during the 2000 season. $155

Or how 'bout this Brewers jersey:

#13 Ben Oglivie. Gray button-down jersey. "Milwaukee" scripted across the front and underlined. numbers on the left center front also. Royal blue and gold knit sleeve stripes. OGLIVIE arched across the back on a nameplate. Everything is sewn on in royal blue edged in gold. The Rawlings size 44 tag and SET 1, 1990 Flag tag is in the tail. $185

Those all look legit, and the price is good. Plus, they have great vintage (non game-worn) stuff too (and not just baseball)...

Moose

[Gothamite]

Or how 'bout this Brewers jersey:

#13 Ben Oglivie. Gray button-down jersey. "Milwaukee" scripted across the front and underlined. numbers on the left center front also. Royal blue and gold knit sleeve stripes. OGLIVIE arched across the back on a nameplate. Everything is sewn on in royal blue edged in gold. The Rawlings size 44 tag and SET 1, 1990 Flag tag is in the tail. $185

Those all look legit, and the price is good. Plus, they have great vintage (non game-worn) stuff too (and not just baseball)...

Yes. How about that 1990 Ben Oglivie jersey?

Where to begin - well, let's see. How about the minor detail that Ben Oglivie didn't play for the Brewers in 1990 ? He retired in 1986.

Maybe Ben wore that jersey in his comeback attempt, after spending a couple years in Japan. That could explain why "his" number 24 isn't on the jersey. But the comeback attempt was 1989, so it seems unlikely that he would have been wearing a "SET 1 1990" jersey.

Now, the jersey might not be a fake. It's possible that Oglivie did some coaching with the Crew in 1990, or participated in he Brewers' fantasy camp, either of which would have resulted in the club creating a jersey with his name on it. But this jersey they're selling certainly wasn't game-worn.

And in any case, that's an awful lot of questions about the jersey's authenticity and provenance. At the very least, a reputable dealer should raise those issues, even if only to posit a speculation (as I did above) or to say that they can't be explained.

[Swiss]

I like the road jersey... and the other jerseys are an aberration. Period.

[Discrim]

the blue-sleeved pinstripes remind me of a vest alt the I-Cubs wore a while back, no comment on the Cubspos(or is it Expubs?) gray. pretend teh navy one doesn't exist and add white outline to the C, and the blue jersey's passable as at least a fashion jersey.

that's my two rusted lincolns, since bucco B aint said it lately.

[timparry]

That's nothing. You can buy plenty of those "prototypes" on eBay:

Hey - since the Yanks actually considered adopting that as their road jersey, maybe it is a prototype! I can re-sell it for millions!

Seriously, why should we these people any credibility? What's their track record?

I saw that Brewers one on eBay, too, and I don't think that anywhere in the description it was billed as a "prototype." Or for that matter, an MLB jersey:

Brewers Vintage Jersey #37 by Rawlings ADLT sz 46. You are bidding on a very kewl vintage brewers jersey. Jersey is 100% double knit poly and is in excellent condition. It has been worn, but not much. Very kewl vintage jersey is grey and features thicker material and a more tailored cut than your average fan jersey with stretchy red/white/blue stripes in the sides and on the top of the sleeves. Jersey has "Brewers 31" printed on the front and "31" on the back. There is a tag sewn on the front that says Rawlings. Jersey is size 46 (adult L) and measures 24" across the chest and 34" from hem to collar.

I'm not the seller, either, just thought it was interesting when I did a search for "vintage rawlings jersey"

[Brian E]

the navy blue one is a twins replica jersey with alterations. the tags on the last two jerseys signify that it's a replica jersey as opposed to an authentic

[Gothamite]

I saw that Brewers one on eBay, too, and I don't think that anywhere in the description it was billed as a "prototype."

You're right. What I meant is that Murph and Pat got ahold of some customized Cubs jerseys (like the ones I posted) and are claiming that theirs are prototypes.

I am very suspicious of such claims - true prototypes are unspeakably rare - and from the examples posted I was very right to be so in this case.

[Guest]

All this talk about Murph is making me hungry for raccoon sausage.