Twins in sleevless jerseys

[spyboy1]

The only wore them once and lost. ESPN guys made fun of them so the Twins buried them fast.

I didnt know teams took what idiot ESPN commentators said so seriously..... if all athletes respected everything ESPN said then sports would be pretty boring..... and the Hawks wouldnt have even tried against the Celtics

The Twins actually wore that red jersey more than once. But they lost just about every time they wore them, so they ditched the unis.

They wore them twice early in the season, April 6th & 27th, both Sunday games started by Brad Radke, and lost both times. They were never worn again.

[mantleisthebest7]

What was it with old Ted Kluszewski anyway? He seems like a real showboat who missed his calling in the WWE by being born too soon.

Ive actually read about this in a few different baseball books, one account even being in a Mickey Mantle biography. If you didnt notice already, Ted's arms were quite huge. So big infact, that when he tried a sleeved jersey on, it restrained his arms. So the Reds had sleeveless jerseys made just for him and as for the undershirt, I believe that restrained his arms as well so he cut the sleeves off. It wasnt because he was showboating, it's becaue basically he had to so the circulation wouldnt be cut off in his arms.

As for the topic, I actually like this look alot for the Twins. I think it's a sharp look in my opinion.

That is beyond absurd. You're saying that he had the biggest arms in the world? That they couldn't make a jersey / undershirt big enough for his guns? Seriously - I don't care if he had 24" pythons, ain't no way he couldn't wear at least an undershirt if he wanted to.

I as well was suprised when I read this, so i'm kind of on your side here but that's what I've read from multiple sources. I mean heck, as I even stated before, it's even in a Mantle biography. There's a picture of Ted Kluzewski in Sports Illustrated's "The Baseball Book" and even the caption under it said "The Reds had sleeveless jerseys made to keep from restraining the big guns of Ted Kluzewski". I figured if i read it in SI, it's pretty reliable. I understand where your coming from but all i'm saying is that's what 3 or 4 different baseball books say.

[Gothamite]

I don't buy it, either.

Hey, if you read about it in a Mickey Mantle biography, then it's gospel, right? Think it's more that Sports Illustrated was just repeating the oft-told tale that Klu invented - his arms were so massive that no sleeves could contain them.

[spyboy1]

I sent someone with the Twins an email and was told that the choice to wear the sleeveless vests was Livan Hernandez's. He liked the vest style when he was with Arizona and chose it, so we can expect to see it again this year.

[zooropean]

I sent someone with the Twins an email and was told that the choice to wear the sleeveless vests was Livan Hernandez's. He liked the vest style when he was with Arizona and chose it, so we can expect to see it again this year.

Hey spyboy,

I understand it's the pitcher's decision to pick which jersey is worn. Would you do me a favor and ask your contact why the blue alts have hardly been worn this season(especially by Boof Bonser since he seemed to be the guy picking the blue alts. in the past)?

The road blue alt is my favorite Twins jersey and the Twins have yet to wear it in 2008.

Since Livan is pitching tonight, expect to see the vests. He should wear the red hat with it (another thing to ask).

[mania]

I don't buy it, either.

Hey, if you read about it in a Mickey Mantle biography, then it's gospel, right? Think it's more that Sports Illustrated was just repeating the oft-told tale that Klu invented - his arms were so massive that no sleeves could contain them.

"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

-The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

[usahockeyrube]

I want to see them go back to this look.

[RickV]

I want to see them go back to this look.

+1

[gosioux76]

I want to see them go back to this look.

Mostly, I agree. I loved this look and even liked how that script looked on the old polyester pullovers. I'd really like to see a variation on this come out onto the field at their new ballpark.

Even so, I think it's a hard case to make for changing the Twins uniforms. There's really nothing wrong with the current style, other than it's been watered down by too many alternates. This is the uniform they wore when they won two championships, and you can almost guarantee that fans -- maybe even myself included -- would be clamoring to go back to them within 5-10 years if they changed.

[BallWonk]

Even so, I think it's a hard case to make for changing the Twins uniforms. There's really nothing wrong with the current style, other than it's been watered down by too many alternates. This is the uniform they wore when they won two championships, and you can almost guarantee that fans -- maybe even myself included -- would be clamoring to go back to them within 5-10 years if they changed.

Exactly. And the core of the current Twins uniform is a modernization of that classic look. If you just threw that old Twins script on a pinstriped jersey today, it would look hopelessly dated. It would be kind of sad, actually, with that odd little leg on the W and the too-dominant underline and all the wasted vertical space on the jersey. What made the current Twins uniforms so excellent back in 1986 was that they kept the important aesthetic elements of the original Twins script and translated them to a contemporary visual paradigm. The wavy bar on the T, the dominant underline, the lowercase letters with the i on the placket, and so forth. And even more to the credit of the designers, that modernization has not become dated itself in more than 20 years of use.

If you gave the photo above to a designer and said, "Give me this, but a modern version that doesn't look ancient," he would give you something very much like the current Twins script. Throw the TC cap on it, like the Twins do, and the Twins are already wearing a uniform as close to the original 1961 Twins as can reasonably be expected.

[zooropean]

I want to see them go back to this look.

Mostly, I agree. I loved this look and even liked how that script looked on the old polyester pullovers. I'd really like to see a variation on this come out onto the field at their new ballpark.

Even so, I think it's a hard case to make for changing the Twins uniforms. There's really nothing wrong with the current style, other than it's been watered down by too many alternates. This is the uniform they wore when they won two championships, and you can almost guarantee that fans -- maybe even myself included -- would be clamoring to go back to them within 5-10 years if they changed.

So far this year though they have worn any of the alts only 3 times, so it's not like they are the Astros and will wear an alternate for every road game and the sometimes at home.

I think the Twins unis are fine and should stay the same. But as I have said several times before it would be nice to actually see the alts worn more regularly!

[RickV]

If you just threw that old Twins script on a pinstriped jersey today, it would look hopelessly dated. It would be kind of sad, actually, with that odd little leg on the W and the too-dominant underline and all the

Quite frankly, I've never understood the "it looks dated" argument. By that reasoning, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers are the most hopelessly, clueless, dated franchises in baseball.

[Cianfrocco]

They are wearing the vests again tonight against the Mariners with Livan Hernandez on the mound. Maybe they are becoming popular with the team? Or at least with Livan.

[BallWonk]

If you just threw that old Twins script on a pinstriped jersey today, it would look hopelessly dated. It would be kind of sad, actually, with that odd little leg on the W and the too-dominant underline and all the

Quite frankly, I've never understood the "it looks dated" argument. By that reasoning, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers are the most hopelessly, clueless, dated franchises in baseball.

No, no, and no. The particular characteristics of the original Twins script make it quite dated. Just like the Orioles script from that era looks hopelessly dated compared to the Orioles script from today. It's just kind of a crummy script. And that has nothing to do with the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers. Some things age well. When those things get old, we call them "classic." Some things do not age well. When those things get old, we call them "dated."

[zooropean]

They are wearing the vests again tonight against the Mariners with Livan Hernandez on the mound. Maybe they are becoming popular with the team? Or at least with Livan.

Livan likes them. Also, they are playing the Red Sox.

[spyboy1]

They are wearing the vests again tonight against the Mariners with Livan Hernandez on the mound. Maybe they are becoming popular with the team? Or at least with Livan.

Livan likes them. Also, they are playing the Red Sox.

Yes, as I stated earlier in this thread, Livan seems to like the feel of the sleeveless jersey and was the one responsible for them being not only worn twice now, but going 2-0 in them after they started life 0-5 to the best of my research.

Expect to see them more, even if they do need a "TC" logo on them instead!

[RickV]

If you just threw that old Twins script on a pinstriped jersey today, it would look hopelessly dated. It would be kind of sad, actually, with that odd little leg on the W and the too-dominant underline and all the

Quite frankly, I've never understood the "it looks dated" argument. By that reasoning, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers are the most hopelessly, clueless, dated franchises in baseball.

No, no, and no. The particular characteristics of the original Twins script make it quite dated. Just like the Orioles script from that era looks hopelessly dated compared to the Orioles script from today. It's just kind of a crummy script. And that has nothing to do with the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers. Some things age well. When those things get old, we call them "classic." Some things do not age well. When those things get old, we call them "dated."

Well, that obviously is your opinion, but it doesn't hold up any better than my opinion that the old script is just fine. What makes it a crummy script? Just because you said so? What makes the Dodgers, Yankees, and Tigers script/logo any more "classic" than the Twins old script? Once again, just because you said so? I'm sure that just as many people think something "ages well" as those that don't.

[M59]

The Twins' uniforms would be significantly upgraded simply by ditching the pinstripes, and putting placket and sleeve piping on the home and road to match the alternates.

And a revival of the red home alt wouldn't hurt, either. You could wear 'em with the red hat.

[Proc]

I've always liked the "Twins" script and the "TC" logo. I don't like pinstripes. I'd like to see the red alt hat used.

[BallWonk]

If you just threw that old Twins script on a pinstriped jersey today, it would look hopelessly dated. It would be kind of sad, actually, with that odd little leg on the W and the too-dominant underline and all the

Quite frankly, I've never understood the "it looks dated" argument. By that reasoning, the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers are the most hopelessly, clueless, dated franchises in baseball.

No, no, and no. The particular characteristics of the original Twins script make it quite dated. Just like the Orioles script from that era looks hopelessly dated compared to the Orioles script from today. It's just kind of a crummy script. And that has nothing to do with the Yankees, Dodgers, and Tigers. Some things age well. When those things get old, we call them "classic." Some things do not age well. When those things get old, we call them "dated."

Well, that obviously is your opinion, but it doesn't hold up any better than my opinion that the old script is just fine. What makes it a crummy script? Just because you said so? What makes the Dodgers, Yankees, and Tigers script/logo any more "classic" than the Twins old script? Once again, just because you said so? I'm sure that just as many people think something "ages well" as those that don't.

Newsflash: Scientists working collaboratively on the Internet have discovered that aesthetic judgments are actually opinions!

Anyway, sarcasm aside, here is why the old Twins script does, in fact, suck:

1. Note the inconsistently placed connecters with differing styles of going in and out of the letterforms. Sometimes they hit at the middle of a vertical line, sometimes they connect at the top. Sometimes they flow into the letter shape like actual script writing, sometimes they just hit the letter as if the pen is lifted between letters.

2. Note the hanging connecter on the left of the W. Not only is it inconsistently placed with the others, especially the N, which should match in style within any given script, but it's squared off at the end, whereas all other script "edges" come to a point.

3. Sometimes changes in "pen" direction are indicated with loops or curves, but in other places such changes are not indicated, leaving the effect of perfectly retraced lines or a lifted "pen." The problem is that this is handled inconsistently between similar letterforms, as between similar vertical shapes in the W, I, and N. Also note the continuous looping line to connect the W to the I but a "lifted pen" between the end of the stroke that forms the S and the start of the underline.

4. The vertical lines in each letter are not parallel to those in any other letter. Even the I and N, which look close, are not quite parallel.

5. Nor are do the letters align properly on the bottoms; instead the I floats above the baseline, and the bottom of the N is aligned at an angle that crosses the baseline.

6. The connector between the S and the underline sticks out half the width of a letter, distorting the size and placement of the script on the jersey.

7. The giant fish-tail on the underline takes up nearly one-fourth of the vertical space of the entire script. That creates huge amounts of wasted space and shrinks the apparent and actual size of the letters. But the letters are the whole point of a jersey script!

These are, for the most part, objectively measurable characteristics that most people would regard as flaws. Any minimally competent designer today would not create a script with these flaws. The connecters would be consistent in alignment and style. The vertical elements would be parallel, and the letters would align on a baseline. The W would not have a stump on the left side. The S would blend into the tail more directly, and the left edge of the tail would waste less space. The Dodgers, to use one of your examples, have a script that does not suffer any of the technical flaws of the original Twins script. It therefore ages better (and has been tweaked over the years to keep it looking fresh).

You might think the old Twins script is pretty nonetheless, but these flaws don't cease to exist just because you think the script is pretty anyway. It's important not to mistake one's own gut sense of whether something is pretty with a reasoned judgment of whether that thing is actually any good.