CCSLC Apprentice

[fiasco!]

Here are my comments:

Team Red: Prodigy Design Collective

The logo is good, but has nothing to flow with when paired with the wordmark. The use of the torch as the 'i' feels forced, as do the added serifs in the text. It feels like these marks have potential, but just aren't up to snuff. I would have liked to see the flame icon used differently, maybe with "PDC" much smaller and without the torch 'i'. Are the words "design collective" stretched out, or is that my imagination. If so, making the type a couple points smaller and loosening the kerning on the text might have solved that issue better than messing with the typeface like that.

The shade of orange used would have been better paired with a solid black, or even a navy blue, the charcoal just isn't doing it for me with this orange.

The business card layout is all over the place. I like the idea of doing something different, but this feels like something I'd get from a Kinko's or something like that. The lines just seem to be thrown in with no real thought behind why they're there. The fact that "DEVIN" is all caps, "task manager" is all lowercase, and the address is a combination shows that there is nothing unifying about this design, other than thinking it looks cool. The layout design doesn't match the business card, and to me, that's a big faux pas. Overall, it's too many elements competing for my attention rather than all of the information flowing together.

I do like the flame, though.

Team Blue: Optimus

I simply love it. Where Team Red's orange didn't match the charcoal, Team Blue's does perfectly. Great color combination.

I really dig the dart in the bullseye imagery of the main logo, and I think you nailed it's placement when used in the full wordmark. Good choice in just sticking with "Optimus" and not adding anything else. It shows that you are confident in your abilities and don't need to scream to the world "Hey! Design studio here! Check us out!". You are letting your work do the talking. I'm not a Gill Sans fan, but I feel it works fine here, although there might be better choices out there.

The business card is stellar. Great idea in using the logo as a die-cut card. The info flows and it looks good. Oddly enough, I don't mind the lowercase/uppercase dilemma I had with the other identity. Maybe it's because the name is lowercase, while the title is uppercase, signifying that the job is more important than who's doing it. If I am to assume that the contact info is "boards.sportslogos.net", I like that as well. Again, a team mentality, forcing the client to visit the website and not contact one single individual. I like the feeling it gave me.

The layout is my only real problem here. While it looks good on it's own, it doesn't feel right with the other material. The orange stroke against the charcoal bleed area isn't constant, and that's the only place in your whole identity system that something is disjointed like that. When taken as a whole, that piece just feels like it is a holdover (back stock, if you will) from a previous branding, and you just wanted to use the rest of the paper to save a few bucks on printing.

[GFB]

Here are my critiques:

Red Team

Positives: I really like the fact that you embraced your youth and tried to build around it. PRODIGY was a good choice for a name. I love the torch idea... it could lead to a great tagline, something along the lines of "Taking the Torch." The orange-charcoal color scheme fits well enough, though I think you could have done better. If these identities were drawn out over 10 years, your team would have the better identity because you guys have the better base to build your identity on....

Negatives: I think that your identity is stuck in a tug-of-war between simplicity and complexity. You tried to go with a simple wordmark, but then tried to complicate things with those little serifs. Your tried going with a very simple layout, but ended up complicating it by placing random bars all over the place. There are also a bunch of little things that don't seem to match. Such as, why is the bottom of the torch cut off on the logo (makes it look like a campfire) and the uppercase/lowercase dilemma. If I were you guys, I would have gone with a more complicated torch (at least 4 colors) and then designed a seal-looking logo with PRODIGY spelled out in more complicated font across a banner.

Blue Team

Positives: I have to admit, when I first read that you guys were going to be using Optimus, I had a hard time getting past the Transformers connection. But after a week or so of seeing how you guys built up your name, I am very impressed. The bullseye/arrow is great, and flows with your wordmark seamlessly. Also, the busines card is unique and helps it stand out from all the other business cards out there... The layout is simple, but in good taste. All in all, you guys did a really nice job.

Negatives: Just a few things that bug me. First, just like PRODIGY, your lack of consistancy with uppercase/lowercase is somewhat distracting. Second, the type on the back of you business card seems to be upside down with the rest of the card. The card should be flipped horizontally, not vertically.

[pcgd]

My comments:

Prodigy:

I love the story behind the name. Your team looked within at itself and saw who it was, and used that. Instead of going with something obvious, you used a name that not only told the youth story, but had a bigger meaning. Kudos.

My feelings on the logo are with the other members of the board. The logo is decent, but it needs some polishing. The serifs look like what they are, an add on. They don't truly belong to the font. As for "Design Collective"...Don't squash fonts...ever. Don't stretch them either. Sorry but the Business card is not doing it for me. The fonts size is way too big for a business card. You should be between 6-12 point size, depending on the font.

Not all is lost however. The icon logo is a fairly good mark. You achieved an torch look with only a few strokes. The colors don't bother me that much, but I think you could have darked the gray just a touch. I think you've made an excellent presentation board. Just try not to fill in all the space with your work. Negative space can be a good thing....use it. Negative space would have helped you across the board.

On another note, I could be mistaken but I think someone had talked about doing a burning pencil as a logo. I really would have liked to see this explored.

Optimus:

Big fan of the look. The color choice is progressive. Its a unique yellow orange. The grey works perfectly. Its a very polished logo. Love the icon. WIthout saying a word it just screams "We hit the mark"

I do not like the presentation board at all. It distracts from the art within. The grey is way too heavy on the board. The same effect could have been achieved without the grey part of it very easily.

The business card, I really do appreciate you looking outside the box at a die cut, but for me, this misses the mark. Its going to look like a coaster to many people and that's the last thing you want them using your business card for. I love die cuts, I really do. But IMO, for something as universal as a business card, you should try to stay within the format a bit. You want this to be something someone can stick in their wallet or business card holder easily. If it doesn't fit, its very likely its going to be thrown out. I think you could have achieved the die cut look while still maintaining a more traditional card look.

Like I said, I really like you looking outside the box at this. But the card would make a much better mailer than business card IMO. Definite points for creativity. I could be convinced otherwise if this was a round table review. These are just things to think about when you're designing these things. Sometimes you can be too creative for your own good.

Great work to both teams! I think you all worked very hard and I was impressed how from what I could tell, everyone contributed to the projects the best they could.

[chestnutz]

On another note, I could be mistaken but I think someone had talked about doing a burning pencil as a logo. I really would have liked to see this explored.

Not to jack my own hot dog, but I do recall saying that

[ShinyHubCaps]

The icon logo is a fairly good mark. You achieved an torch look with only a few strokes.

I agree. At my school, Carthage College, we have this slanted, overly-complicated torch logo...

(Wait a second, isn't that your logo? )

[pollux]

I haven't looked at what other judges have said in order not to be influenced by their judgment. So there might be some comments that look alike, but that's life!

----------

Red Team: Prodigy

Name I really like the thought process that you have shown in selecting an identity for your group. As Devin mentioned, you're a very young group, and this is the source of it all. While the name itself might look pretentious, the name has to speak for itself, which does here. I like the special touch of the design collective. That clearly states that you are a group rather than one individual behind the brand.

Logo The flame looks good, but as a personal choice, I would probably have made the tip going right rather than left. But it is a very minor nitpick. The color are nice, but there is something that rubs me wrong on this. I don't know exactly what, but I feel like the gray should've been darker to complement the current orange, or the orange lighter to complement the current gray. The color scheme has two strong colors, and it seems like none wants the other to pop out more.

Wordmark Very nice addition of the logo within the wordmark, I like that a lot. The design collective is, again a nice touch. However, it looks like the serif is forced in there. It's unequal and this could've been great if it had been homogeneous.

Business Card This is where the identity gets a bit weird. Instead of going with the flow of the logo, which shows nice curves, you went with straight and bold lines. This doesn't look like it flows well together. You also put the design collective in the wordmark, yet it looks like you value more the individual than the group on the card. The use of all caps versus normal text versus no caps isn't something standard too.

Layout Design I guess the comments from the business card can apply here as well. The bold line on the right seems to box in the layout design, yet it's allowed to go free on the left. I like that you've used a semi-transparent wordmark on there, it is subtle and well placed. I would've thought that more information would be displayed in the header though, a bit like a real company (email addresses, bogus phones, etc...)

Overall The identity itself looks good, but the supporting package falls short of bringing the overall design to another level.

----------

Blue Team: Optimus

Name I was a bit skeptical about you name, since it is very closely related (in my mind) to Transformers. I did like the fact that you wanted to explore other languages for your identity. It really shows open-mindedness.

Logo The logo is iconic, no doubt about it. Since the name can be referred to as 'Optimum', I like the target idea. I see it as 'optimizing the client's needs'. The colors contrast well, although it's ironic that both teams went for the same color scheme. I do feel like the colors complement themselves better.

Wordmark Clean and simple. I really like the way you've incorporated the logo in there. It actually looks like you've taken the O of the font to create your logo.

Business Card Thumbs up for thinking way outside the box! While I think it might be messy to handle those cards (if I needed to keep one in my wallet), I simply love this. The form of it will likely stick in a client's head and that's what it's all about. However, you could've kept the same layout behind so that upon reading the text, the logo wouldn't be upside down. The font is easy to read and you've used contrasting colors nicely to put emphasis on some of the elements.

Layout Design The coloring really separates the layout from the rest. Font is very legible. I like the swoosh (or whatever you want to call it) that separates the header/footer from the actual window. However there is a lot of empty space in the header, which could've been used to present the name of the project (instead of the footer).

Overall This is a strong package that has a great overall feel and that is flowing well together.

----------

Excellent work done by both teams! It's great to see everyone putting some time in this and getting involved in their respective teams' threads.

[slapshot]

Here is my take on both entries:

Red Team: Prodigy

Name I think the name seems a bit pretentious, actually. It's somewhat egotistical to call one's self a prodigy, usually that title has to be bestowed upon you. But, for a contest such as this, it is good to show that you as a team aren't lacking in self-confidence, so for me, that balances out the feeling of arrogance.

Logo/Wordmark The flame is a good rendition, but I don't feel it's integrated well with the wordmark. I wouldn't even associate a torch or flame with Prodigy. The use of the I as a torch seems a bit obvious, I would rather see the flame used as a negative shape somewhere else. The font used for the logo doesn't work well with Gill Sans Bold..why is "design collective" all lowercase, but "Prodigy" isn't? Perhaps a serifed font work balance out the sans serif feel of the primary name. I also think the colors would work better if the gray was darker, adding more contrast between the two parts.

Business Card/Letterhead Way too busy. All the lines making extra boxes make this feel very heavy, and it's difficult to see a sense of hierarchy within the information. Everything seems too big. Get rid of the lines, reduce the size of the text, and maybe even increase the size of the flame. Play with a grid layout and get some consistency with justification.

Overall Everything seems entry-level or strip-mall print shop quality, not a reputable design firm.

----------

Blue Team: Optimus

Name The name was very vague at first. Words with latin derivatives aren't necessarily a good thing, but I like how it seems to reflect more on the potential work itself rather than the designers.

Logo/Wordmark Very effective use of creating an icon out of type. You can't get more optimal than a bullseye, and you conveyed that perfectly, even without the use of an obvious target in the center. This logo can work on its own as well as integrated with the rest of the name. I think the use of Gill Sans in this case is very appropriate, since the O is a perfect circle. The colors also contrast well without being overly heavy.

Business Card/Letterhead Very creative. Definitely would stand out among a pile of other assorted rectangular cards. I think the text could be laid out better, it feels cramped around the Optimus name. The letterhead also stands out, but it doesn't match the design elements of the business card. You should remove the reverse banner at the bottom of the page.

Overall A very well thought-out entry that's not afraid to take chances.

Both teams worked very hard, and it shows. Congrats to all!

[Steve-O]

Optimus wins in my mind. (Not that it matters! )

[chestnutz]

ok, so since we lost, when does the board room happen?

[GFB]

ok, so since we lost, when does the board room happen?

hey now speedy, slow it down for a second... let the other 3 board members post their critiques tomorrow and we'll move on from there...

[chestnutz]

oh musta missed that you made more board members

[andrewharrington]

NAME

The names both fit into a category

I like to call "inspiration" names.

Names that evoke business-like goals

and accomplishments. Personally, I

prefer 'Optimus' to 'Prodigy,' though

the 'Design Collective' subtitle is

much less cumbersome than 'CCSLC

Apprentice Team.' The associations

each team made to get from their

name to their logomark were simi-

larly abstract and stretched limits in

a refreshing fashion.

COLOR

This scheme is becoming tired for

design firms, but Optimus has refined

it better in this case. I loved the

unique green and blue scheme of the

original Optimus package. I'm very

disappointed that neither team felt a

last minute change in color was neces-

sary to differentiate itself from its

competitor. Branding 101. I would

never have let my identity out knowing

it was the same color as my competi-

tor's, but that's just me.

LOGOMARK/LOGOTYPE

The torch as the I feels too natural

and predictable. I would have pre-

ferred to work a flame into the neg-

ative space of one of the letters or

at least something a little less literal.

I love the O target, though. This is

very literal as well, but the simple

translation makes it very effective

and it's a rather unique way of de-

picting the target as well as com-

bining it with the letterform. If Red

Team was dead set on using a torch

as the I, it needed to be executed

with a similar amount of restraint

and elegance. I love the depth.

The torch, as is, plays a big second

fiddle to the rest of the logotype

while Blue Team has emphasized its

mark within the logotype both with

scaleand color. I'm old-fashioned,

but I think you need to use a proven

typeface to be taken seriously. Blue

Team knew this, Red Team did not,

presumably due to their youth and

inexperience. When choosing a type,

or when choosing a name for that

matter, the word must be visualized

and evaluated. Doing so would have

revealed many strange gaps within

the 'Prodigy' name. See all the un-

sightly gaps toward the beginning of

the word and the tightness of the

word's end? This tells you that the

typeface chosen does not flatter your

word. A. Your word needs to be

changed or B. Your type choice is not

correct. This is a word that may look

better in all caps or in a script or

with some extra letterspacing. The

refined look of the Optimus logotype,

both the typeface and the spacing,

is a good example of where the bar

has been set.

LAYOUT

Both teams' logos are too big on their

respective layouts. Prodigy has used

type that is too large on the business

card. This piece also suffers from a

lack of white space and the 90s trend

of the ghosted logo in the corner. To

be successful, you have to know your

trends. Knowing where design was, is

and where it's going are essential to

creating visually appealing work. It's

becoming less and less important as

we move toward more principle-driven

and less trend-oriented marketplaces

as far as design goes, but it is still

worth its weight. Optimus has used

graphic elements that, in my opinion,

are too heavy for the page. Nice pre-

sentation, but a little dated-looking as

well, seeming more like eye candy

than functional design as the color-

blocked edge and round business card

are going the way of the dino as well.

Plus for originality, but I'm a form

follows function simpleton, and neither

layout fits my parameters for inno-

vation and attractiveness quite right.

I like the use of color in the text with

the Optimus layout, as well as the

airy feeling of the thin text. Prodigy

would do well to consider color and

weight in regards to typographic

hierarchy for future projects.

VERDICT

I have to name Optimus the winner

because it was just a step ahead of

the competition in every area. More

refined, better executed, you get

the idea. Sorry if this is all over

the place. It's hard to keep track

of such a long critique.

[chestnutz]

I'm leaving on Friday for a week to Italy to play soccer, and won't have any internet access. Is this ok? If I go on to the next round, I'd like to know what the next event will be before hand or if we could get things going faster.

[scottysprings]

I'm leaving on Friday for a week to Italy to play soccer, and won't have any internet access. Is this ok? If I go on to the next round, I'd like to know what the next event will be before hand or if we could get things going faster.

Jealous

Well, I'm leaving on Friday for a weekend to Poghkeepsie to play soccer. Take that!

[Cola]

I'm leaving on Friday for a week to Italy to play soccer, and won't have any internet access. Is this ok? If I go on to the next round, I'd like to know what the next event will be before hand or if we could get things going faster.

Jealous

Well, I'm leaving on Friday for a weekend to Poghkeepsie to play soccer. Take that!

Yeah, well I am leaving on Saturday for a week to relax on the beach and play...drinking games!

Take THAT.

[gingerbreadmann]

I'm leaving tonight for an all-expenses paid trip to... the bathroom!

AHA!

[chestnutz]

I'm leaving tonight for an all-expenses paid trip to... the bathroom!

AHA!

winner!

[GFB]

Alright... sorry for not wrapping this up sooner, but Optimus is the winner.... so to make up for some lost time and keep this contest moving, we will have a quick board session...

So, as the losing task manager, Devin will be in the board room with 2 other team members of his choosing. Each member will be given the opportunity to defend his or herself as well as comment on the other 2 people. Board members can ask any questions to the 3 contestants at this time as well...

So Devin, please choose your two teammates who you would like to bring with you into the board room...

[-(dp)-]

Aww, I hate having to be the bad guy. I really felt that all of my teammates did their best to contribute as much as possible, so this was a really hard decision. I guess I will pick Josh_cat_eyes and SG30. Nothing personal, and I am not saying you guys didn't help, but everybody did, and I had to pick two.

[SG30]

No offense taken. I don't think I contributed as much as I could have, anyways.