Canadiens Knockoff Crusade

[Gothamite]

I'll admit that at this point I'm just skimming so I may have missed something, but I don't recall a single post that sympathized with counterfeiters, nor do I see any endorsement of IP theft.

Well, we have had a poster call for a "day of reckoning" for the corporations which hold the intellectual property rights. Still haven't quite worked out what that was all about.

[walby2]

Not sure why some of you are so hung up on that particular phrase. I don't literally mean the world will end. I didn't mean to frighten anyone.

What I mean is that at some point jersey manufacturers will lose sales to counterfeiters in sufficient volume that they will be forced to change something. Either they will have to find a way to eliminate counterfeits from the market (good idea, but how realistic is it?) or reduce their prices so as to stem the flow of consumers to counterfeiters.

It's not unlike what record labels did in response to filesharing. They faced their own day of reckoning, if you will. The end result is that labels now focus on the sale of singles via iTunes and the like, and concert ticket sales as major sources of revenue. CD prices came down as well. As that example illustrates, if you don't respond to external factors in the market, you won't last long in the market.

I now await the "YEAH BUT NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY IT'S STILL ILLEGAL" response.

[oakland ehs]

Keep in mind how long it took with the music industry, and how much easier and cheaper music sharing is than counterfeit jerseys. I don't think it's even really comparable.

[BBTV]

Keep in mind how long it took with the music industry, and how much easier and cheaper music sharing is than counterfeit jerseys. I don't think it's even really comparable.

It's certainly different, but it's in the same ballpark. The main difference is that a buyer of a counterfeit jersey doesn't always know that they're buying something that is illegally produced. Someone who downloads music knows full well that they're breaking the law. Also, the average music pirate downloads dozens of songs per week, while the average counterfeit jersey buyer might buy a handful per year. Still, conceptually it's the same thing, it's just that one is physical and expensive (relatively) and one is digital and cheap.

The point of responding to the external factors is a valid one, and it's getting annoying how hung up everyone is on one (albeit poorly worded) phrase.

[IceCap]

The point of responding to the external factors is a valid one, and it's getting annoying how hung up everyone is on one (albeit poorly worded) phrase.

I'm sorry, but you're giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's simply understanding counterfeiters, not endorsing him. That phrase, among a few others he's posted in this thread says to me he's actually endorsing the practice because the big bad NHL and big bad Rebook dare to sell their products at a price that both yields a high rate of return and one that the market can support.

From where I'm standing he's just doing the same pro-pirated goods song and dance that some people do when they're confronted with the fact that what they're supporting is illegal. I would normally be more then willing to grant him the same thing you are, but he hasn't said anything in this thread that would convince me of that. Like I said earlier, he's just come off as a kid who's mad he got yelled at for downloading a song off of LimeWire.

That and his sad attempt to throw the argument my way with his "you use a Transformers logo as your avatar" just kind of rubs me the wrong way. It was the classic case of "I know I don't have a real argument so I'll try to deflect things."

Now I've said before that counterfeiting can't be stopped. In that regard I agree with you, BBTV, it's a matter of practicality. Counterfeiters will exits as long as there are successful brands they can imitate. No team declaring a "crusade" against the practice will stop it, I agree with that. Still, while I accept the fact that they do exist and likely will continue to exist, I'm not going to say "I don't blame them," or try and spin their efforts off as a pseudo-populist activity. And I certainly believe that any company has the right to try and protect their brand against the practice.

[crashcarson15]

FWIW, the authentic Reebok jerseys cost a retailer $150 and the replicas $50, before any quantity discounts are considered.

Is that before customization? I would assume so, but I honestly don't know.

Yes, these are for blank versions.

And I read somewhere it costs 8 bucks and change for RBK to make the replicas.

[charger77]

FWIW, the authentic Reebok jerseys cost a retailer $150 and the replicas $50, before any quantity discounts are considered.

Is that before customization? I would assume so, but I honestly don't know.

Yes, these are for blank versions.

And I read somewhere it costs 8 bucks and change for RBK to make the replicas.

And that piss poor lettering must be cheap as hell too.

[walby2]

That and his sad attempt to throw the argument my way with his "you use a Transformers logo as your avatar" just kind of rubs me the wrong way. It was the classic case of "I know I don't have a real argument so I'll try to deflect things."

My argument is bang on. I'm telling you the economic reality of the situation and all you do is keep repeating your position on the law. Well thank you Clarence Thomas, I already knew that the counterfeiters don't have the right to use the NHL's intellectual property. You don't have to keep repeating it.

Anyway, I just find it hypocritical and hilarious that someone so quick to condemn anyone who don't measure up to his standards of due respect for intellectual property rights so openly disrespects other peoples' intellectual property rights.

[JToad]

FWIW, the authentic Reebok jerseys cost a retailer $150 and the replicas $50, before any quantity discounts are considered. I know this doesn't solve the question of what the materials and manufacturing process actually cost but I'm sure (like every product ever made) it's cheaper than that.

The most I've ever sold one for is $250.

Exactly. Ive mananged a locally owned Sports Apparel store for over 10 years. The counterfeits have completely killed our buisness. At least twice a day I have some uneducated customer asking about prices, then proclaim "Oh man, I can get that jersey for $40 all day long". Having to explain the difference between fake/real/authentic/replica is tiresome, and in the end, most customers don't give a :censored:. At first, it just killed the jersey biz, but now it's carried over to the rest of the apparel. Why spend $20 on a licensed Tee, when you can spend $30 on a fake jersey. I become the expensive store, when after cost,shipping,advertising,electricity,labor,traded players etc etc etc, I barely make enough to break even.

So for those of you that can justify buying bootleg jerseys in order to "stick it to the man," remember you are in effect taking food off my daughter's plate. Id love to see what everyone else does for a living, and apply the same logic to your source of income.

Sure the argument can be made that there is no guarantee those customers would purchase a jersey at all, but the fact remains it has killed the sports apparel buisness.

[walby2]

Sure the argument can be made that there is no guarantee those customers would purchase a jersey at all, but the fact remains it has killed the sports apparel buisness.

Hey, it sucks, no question. There is at least one fairly easy solution to this problem I can think of, but it's up to the leagues and manufacturers to implement it.

[Gothamite]

Anyway, I just find it hypocritical and hilarious that someone so quick to condemn anyone who don't measure up to his standards of due respect for intellectual property rights so openly disrespects other peoples' intellectual property rights.

Not your strongest argument.

I've said it before and will repeat it - Hasbro and Paramount make the Transformers logos available to download for all of us to use them on message boards and IMs. IceCap is not being hypocritical, he's not infringing, he's not stealing, he's using that logo exactly the way the copyright holder wants him to.

[walby2]

Not your strongest argument.

I've said it before and will repeat it - Hasbro and Paramount make the Transformers logos available to download for all of us to use them on message boards and IMs. IceCap is not being hypocritical, he's not infringing, he's not stealing, he's using that logo exactly the way the copyright holder wants him to.

The Transformers logos authorized for use as buddy icons by Hasbro can be found here: http://www.hasbro.com/hasbrokids/default.cfm?page=Entertainment/DesktopArt/IMIconResults&brandFilter=496

I do not see anything that matches the purple/blue outlined logo used by Ice Cap.

Is there another source of authorized Hasbro buddy icons that I am not aware of, or is Ice Cap going to admit that legally and morally he is hardly any better than the counterfeiters he so sanctimoniously derides?

[Gothamite]

Man, Walby. You're really reaching here.

[docrocket]

Just to interject for a moment, don't you think that the title of this thread "Canadiens Knockoff Crusade" would be the perfect theme for the Habs to use in their run to the Stanley Cup? Caps down, Pens, Bruins, and 'nucks to go?

Damn tough for me to say as a Leafs fan...that reminds me, almost tee time!

We now return you to the current episode of CSI: Copyright Infringement.

[IceCap]

Not your strongest argument.

I've said it before and will repeat it - Hasbro and Paramount make the Transformers logos available to download for all of us to use them on message boards and IMs. IceCap is not being hypocritical, he's not infringing, he's not stealing, he's using that logo exactly the way the copyright holder wants him to.

The Transformers logos authorized for use as buddy icons by Hasbro can be found here: http://www.hasbro.com/hasbrokids/default.cfm?page=Entertainment/DesktopArt/IMIconResults&brandFilter=496

I do not see anything that matches the purple/blue outlined logo used by Ice Cap.

Is there another source of authorized Hasbro buddy icons that I am not aware of, or is Ice Cap going to admit that legally and morally he is hardly any better than the counterfeiters he so sanctimoniously derides?

Wow. You're REALLY digging yourself deeper here.

I've had enough of this clown. I appreciate BBTV trying to give the other side to this argument a reasonable hearing/presentation, but it's not going to work with walby2 continuously ranting and raving about the upside of illegal activity and the evils of avatar logos.

Anyway thanks Goth, good to know I'm not losing my mind.