Activists call for 2011 MLB All-Star game to be moved

[Lights Out]

And Lights Out: One incident? There have been other incidents involving members/supporters of the Tea Party. Don't give me that excuse of this being an 'isolated incident' when the Tea Party has a record of doing actions like this.

Problem is, you picked one article about one incident in one state, tried to paint that as every Tea Party organization in America being racist for criticizing Obama, and then asked me what my opinion was. And any collection of humans will have some bad seeds. Democrats have had their share of PR incidents in the past few years as well.

Oh, and I didn't know that actually giving a damn about the country's poor people and telling big business to back off was in line with being a Socialist. If that's the case, then you might as well label every freaking Democrat a Socialist as well...

Yep, conservatives don't care about the poor. Y'know, other than their desire to actually help the poor by ending bloated government programs and replacing them with charities and other non-governmental organizations that will work more efficiently, waste less money, be open to new ideas, and end widespread dependence on the government.

As far as big business goes, there's a difference between the government telling them to back off and the government ruining businesses by taking them over (GM) or worsening situations involving businesses by getting involved (BP, the controversies over bonuses and meetings in fun locations). And because the Democratic Party is aligning themselves more with socialist policies (Obamacare, bailouts, "too big to fail") it is fair to say that all Democrats that follow the party line are socialists.

[DEAD!]

f-a-s-c-i-s-m, guys; though I suppose he did discriminate based on facial features.

Bruschimania nailed it, so let me repeat it:

Considering how many baseball players have come to the US seeking a better life for themselves and their families, I think that if the majority of players have an issue with the law, the game should be moved, and Phoenix shouldn't be given the financial windfall of hosting. That's the free market at work, something I'd think most of the Glenn Beck fans who love the bill would support.

Hard to argue this, especially the pick-a-lane zinger at the end.

And how many of those baseball players that came here for a better life came here illegally?

Does any of the Cuban defectors count?

[charger77]

Usually they are given political assylum, just like Eastern Bloc hockey players in the 1980s.

[Seadragon76]

Alright, I'll give you that one. Both Democrats and Republicans have had their share of stupid moments. So, you have that arguement won.

Now, on the second part: What proof do you have of these charities and non governmental organization that, in your words, will work more efficiently and waste less money. As for the dependence on the government, there will always be people who needs the help of the government... Hell, I'm one of those people. Yet, the people themselves need to get going and take care of themselves. This whole feeling of the US being something short of a nanny state scares me.

Now, the last part: How was GM ruined? All I know is that government bailed them out in their time of need because letting GM fail would of been far more devestating then having the government bail them out. As for BP, most of the problem falls on BP because of their ineptitude during the oil leak crisis. You can only push someone along for so long until they get it done themselves.

Last but not least... If it's fair to say that all Democrats that follow the party line are socialists, then it's fair to say that all Republicans that follow the party line are bible thumping rednecks who hate anything that is considered a threat to their 'normal' lifestyle.

[HedleyLamarr]

Now, on the second part: What proof do you have of these charities and non governmental organization that, in your words, will work more efficiently and waste less money. As for the dependence on the government, there will always be people who needs the help of the government... Hell, I'm one of those people. Yet, the people themselves need to get going and take care of themselves. This whole feeling of the US being something short of a nanny state scares me.

Government doesn't have to make a profit (or break even) to stay in business. That trillion-dollar deficit is proof of that.

Charities and private businesses can't operate when they're continually losing money and expect to always be around. Therefore, in order to stay in operation, charities and private businesses naturally have a keener sense of doing more with less, and how to survive in the legit business world.

[winters in buffalo]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes the law to offer a reasonable solution for catching and deporting people who are here illegally. If not during the course of routine policework, then how?

[charger77]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes the law to offer a reasonable solution for catching and deporting people who are here illegally. If not during the course of routine policework, then how?

Stop being racist! Just grant them amnesty.

[rams80]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes the law to offer a reasonable solution for catching and deporting people who are here illegally. If not during the course of routine policework, then how?

Amnesty and guest worker programs don't count?

Since this is about drug smuggling (at least as the Arizona authorities have painted it.) perhaps make deportation an automatic punishment for drug offenses?

EDIT-To be more specific, one time amnesty, with the understanding that subsequent failure to register in the program, as well as failing to enter the country through the program, will be met with deportation.

Also, impose increased tax-based penalties on those businesses who fail to employ either citizens or guest workers at minimum wage.

[charger77]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes the law to offer a reasonable solution for catching and deporting people who are here illegally. If not during the course of routine policework, then how?

Amnesty and guest worker programs don't count?

Since this is about drug smuggling (at least as the Arizona authorities have painted it.) perhaps make deportation an automatic punishment for drug offenses?

Amnesty... No.

Guest worker program... If done correctly, yes.

[rams80]

I'm still waiting for someone who opposes the law to offer a reasonable solution for catching and deporting people who are here illegally. If not during the course of routine policework, then how?

Amnesty and guest worker programs don't count?

Since this is about drug smuggling (at least as the Arizona authorities have painted it.) perhaps make deportation an automatic punishment for drug offenses?

Amnesty... No.

Guest worker program... If done correctly, yes.

Amnesty is the carrot to get enrollment in the program. You work in education Dash Dan, you should know all about the need for incentives to get your charges to do things.

[charger77]

I know that it is wrong to reward illegal activities.

[rams80]

I know that it is wrong to reward illegal activities.

You mean like tax breaks for businesses who employ immigrants...oh wait, that's the free market at work. Silly me.

And I know the law as written has been ill-suited to confront the present realities of the situation for decades. If the system itself is broken, do you punish people for trying to develop workarounds?

[Lights Out]

Now, on the second part: What proof do you have of these charities and non governmental organization that, in your words, will work more efficiently and waste less money. As for the dependence on the government, there will always be people who needs the help of the government... Hell, I'm one of those people. Yet, the people themselves need to get going and take care of themselves. This whole feeling of the US being something short of a nanny state scares me.

Charities, non-profits, and the like do not get tied up in bureaucracy, nor are they subject to the whims of rogue politicians in Congress. Therefore, their budgets won't get bloated unless someone in charge makes it that way on their own accord, and they can concentrate more on their niche instead of having to be everything to everybody like the government has to be.

Just look at the Post Office - their budget has been out of control for thirty plus years. They tried numerous times to stop delivering on Saturday to save money on transport. They actually succeeded in implementing this on a trial basis back in either the '70s or '80s (I'm not sure exactly when), and people generally supported the measure, but politicians in Congress declared that they wouldn't be allowed to cut Saturdays. Congress also will not allow the Post Office to shut down extraneous branches, even branches literally across the street from other branches. Therefore, they're stuck with a bloated budget and no hope to cut costs because Congress won't allow them to do so. That's just one of the myriad problems that would be resolved if government programs like the Post Office, welfare, highways, national parks, etc. were spun off into separate entities with no government involvement.

Now, the last part: How was GM ruined? All I know is that government bailed them out in their time of need because letting GM fail would of been far more devestating then having the government bail them out. As for BP, most of the problem falls on BP because of their ineptitude during the oil leak crisis. You can only push someone along for so long until they get it done themselves.

GM failing would be devastating in the short term, but in a true free market (which America used to pride itself on), a new company would be allowed to rise up in the industry, innovate, and succeed in their place, and all auto companies would be forced to learn from GM's mistakes or risk going out of business themselves. But instead, Bush and Obama have created a new corporate world where failing banks and businesses are being propped up on the taxpayer's dime - which is frankly very irresponsible and not a good solution at all for the economy.

As for BP, yes, the blame rests squarely on them for the oil spill. But the government demanding that BP cede control of their claims service over to them is not helping matters, because as I've already explained, the government is unable to run a program efficiently in its current bloated state.

Last but not least... If it's fair to say that all Democrats that follow the party line are socialists, then it's fair to say that all Republicans that follow the party line are bible thumping rednecks who hate anything that is considered a threat to their 'normal' lifestyle.

As soon as you prove that conservative politics are God-centered, racist, and discriminatory by nature, then I'll agree with that statement. I mean, simple research will prove that current Democratic policies are socialist, but you would have to do a :censored:load of fact-bending to come to your crazy conclusion on conservatism.

And by the way, I'm not Republican if that's what you're implying - I'm libertarian.

[charger77]

I know that it is wrong to reward illegal activities.

You mean like tax breaks for businesses who employ immigrants...oh wait, that's the free market at work. Silly me.

So there is a tax break for businesses who employ illegals? No!

If a company is receiving tax breaks that shouldn't it should be stopped ASAP, then they company should be punished for employing illegals.

[max]

The political voice of a citizen in today's American democracy is equivalent to an elevator button...you can press it as many times as you want whenever you want, but the door will always close, no matter how/when you press the button.

The citizens who lived under Stalin had their voices heard, and understood the influence of their political voices...when they were sent to the gulag.

...So charger77, suppose you are in the minority in your opinion on illegal immigration, or suppose that the current government disagrees with your position, at least you can be sent to the gulag. In fact, your efforts should be put toward landing in the gulag if you truly believed in civil disobedience "under the Obama administration."

...Just vote for who is going to win, you have no control over the outcome. How can you trust the government anymore? Who is to say that the 2012 President will not gather up all the voters' names who voted against him and send them all to the gulags? See what I mean?

!Get Slavoj Zizek to host SNL!

[tp49]

Since this is about drug smuggling (at least as the Arizona authorities have painted it.) perhaps make deportation an automatic punishment for drug offenses?

Last time I checked it is...after the illegal serves their prison time. The feds already do it and states do pass inmate lists to ICE who then deports them at the end of their sentence.

[ESTONES6]

What kills me is, people don't understand that America was founded on socialism. Now... just like anything... moderation is the key. And just for fun, here is something to lol at:

[winters in buffalo]

I know that it is wrong to reward illegal activities.

You mean like tax breaks for businesses who employ immigrants...oh wait, that's the free market at work. Silly me.

So there is a tax break for businesses who employ illegals? No!

If a company is receiving tax breaks that shouldn't it should be stopped ASAP, then they company should be punished for employing illegals.

The company should be shut down and whoever does their hiring should be charged.

I'm wondering, though, exactly how many tax breaks those companies are getting. On a somewhat related note, I've long felt that if you have to give a company a tax break to keep it from leaving, then your area's costs of doing business (including taxes) are too high. If you need to give them one to keep it from closing altogether, then the company's business model is broken.

[Lights Out]

What kills me is, people don't understand that America was founded on socialism.

No it wasn't. It was founded as a republic, with a very small national government with checks and balances, and a lot of power granted to the state governments individually. The government was supposed to "fear the people," so to speak, and listen to their suggestions and implement them. Businesses and the free market were allowed to be conducted with little to no government intervention. Taxes were few and far between and relatively inexpensive as the small government required little money to stay afloat.

Socialism, though, requires a massive, unchecked national government with all the power and the final say on everything. In socialism, the people are supposed to "fear the government" and basically allow them to do whatever they want. The government also meddles with businesses and the markets in socialism. Nearly everything is taxed and the amount people pay in taxes is outrageous because the bloated government constantly needs a lot of money. America is closer to socialism now than it was when it was founded.

[ESTONES6]

Socialism is sacrifice of the individual to benefit the whole. That is what America is... or was.