Historical Nations Hockey Concepts 2.0

[PHILADELPHIAFLYERS]

You should make the confederate state of america hockey team and lower-canada using the patriot flag of 1837-38

I guess, he thinks its okay to post a jersey for a terrorist group, but not a civil war-conderate concept. just ridiculous lol...

here is what a concept of the later might look like. Got my facts,quotes and logo inspiration by searching confederate states of america on wikipedia

Maybe, I should have made my own post for this, but oh well

[IceCap]

You should make the confederate state of america hockey team and lower-canada using the patriot flag of 1837-38

I guess, he thinks its okay to post a jersey for a terrorist group, but not a civil war-conderate concept. just ridiculous lol...

You totally missed the point on that one didn't you?

I suppose you're upset I'm not doing Nazi Germany either.

here is what a concept of the later might look like. Got my facts,quotes and logo inspiration by searching confederate states of america on wikipedia

Maybe, I should have made my own post for this, but oh well

Nice. Except that no CSA team would wear blue, as that was the colour Union soldiers wore. Red, or even grey, would have been a better option.

Now kindly leave my thread until you develop higher level brain functions (in reference to you not getting the point behind the ":censored:ING DEAD al--Qaeda" concept after Osama bin Laden was killed).

[PHILADELPHIAFLYERS]

lol u mad bro?

Also, if you knew your history, you would realize that their colors were not gray and red, but red white and blue. They only wore grey because they couldn't import dyes, and grey tinted wool was cheap and easy to produce.

& I used a grey/off-white for the trim to show that...

Also Puckdrawn did a historical WWI & WWII jersey project that did in fact include nations such as nazi german, the soviet union, and facist italy, not to represent hate but to appreciate the design used in creating uniforms

[SP00]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions thus far. I'll see what the German Empire looks like with a more conventional font.

The Macedonian Empire, 808 BCE-146 BCE

Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonia seem to go together like George Washington and the United States. Which speaks a lot to the achievements of Alexander's family more then anything. Alexander the Great, aka Alexander III of Macedonia, was from the boonies of the ancient Hellene world. Thebes, Athens, and Sparta were the centres of power, culture, and philosophy of the ancient hellene city states. Macedonia was a backwater kingdom, the Macedonians seen as barbarians by the powerful Hellene city-statesand the Hellenes did not see the Macedonians as one of theirs. The Reign of Alexander the Great's father, Phillip II changed that. Phillip II wanted it united as a Macedonian state.

The blue and gold are taken from the flag of the Macedonian region in present-day Greece. The sun, the Vergina Sun, was a symbol commonly used by the Macedonian Kingdom. A traditional Greek striping pattern was used, as I felt it was just to good a fit to pass up. The name on the back, "ARGEAD," is the dynasty of Alexander the Great, the dynasty that ruled Macedonia for much of its history.

The Russian Empire is up next.

Nice man, but the Blue should be Red like it should be and Alexander was a Macedonian, not a Greek. Everyone knows that. The Hellenes did indeed see them as Barbaric, but they did certainly not think Macedonians were one of them. Demosthenes is a good source for that. Greeks did not even exist back then. Get your facts straight.

I like the design though

[SP00]

You should make the confederate state of america hockey team and lower-canada using the patriot flag of 1837-38

I guess, he thinks its okay to post a jersey for a terrorist group, but not a civil war-conderate concept. just ridiculous lol...

here is what a concept of the later might look like. Got my facts,quotes and logo inspiration by searching confederate states of america on wikipedia

Maybe, I should have made my own post for this, but oh well

Indeed, and I guess he thinks its okay to make a concept for a occupier state which has carried out so many atrocities against Macedonian people, maybe the same if not more than civil war or terrorists have done and then ironically claim it as their own, Greek. Indeed ridiculous and hypocritical.

It's a sports logo forum, so back on topic. Nice designs though

[IceCap]

lol u mad bro?

Not so much as I am floored at your inability to grasp ideas such as joke concepts and why I don't want to do a CSA concept due to the controversy involved with that government.

Also, if you knew your history, you would realize that their colors were not gray and red, but red white and blue. They only wore grey because they couldn't import dyes, and grey tinted wool was cheap and easy to produce.

I'm have more historical knowledge in my pinky then you do in your entire pea-brained head.

The CSA went with grey because it was cheaper, yes, but the colour has since become associated with the Confederacy in the context of the Civil War. Ever heard of the Grey House? It's what the Confederates called their Presidential mansion.

Blue was never a prominent colour of the CSA, and likely never would have been. Their advisories, the United States, fielded an army that dressed in blue. Why would a national team representing the CSA ever wear blue themselves?

& I used a grey/off-white for the trim to show that...

There isn't a touch of grey anywhere on your concept. Just that vintage white colour NHL teams have been so fond of.

Also Puckdrawn did a historical WWI & WWII jersey project that did in fact include nations such as nazi german, the soviet union, and facist italy, not to represent hate but to appreciate the design used in creating uniforms

I'm aware of that series. Good for Puckdrawn.

This is my series, though, and I'm choosing not to include Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy. Not only would I not do them for personal reasons (had family die in the Holocaust), but the images associated with those teams are ones that I'm sure Chris would rather not have associated with his sight.

At the end of the day a concept series isn't the place you should look to for an unbiased historical narrative. If I'm in the classroom teaching, yes Nazi Germany will get the attention it deserves. For a concept project though? I'm free to pick and choose who I do and who I choose not to do. If you're unhappy with my choices kindly step aside.

[IceCap]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions thus far. I'll see what the German Empire looks like with a more conventional font.

The Macedonian Empire, 808 BCE-146 BCE

Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonia seem to go together like George Washington and the United States. Which speaks a lot to the achievements of Alexander's family more then anything. Alexander the Great, aka Alexander III of Macedonia, was from the boonies of the ancient Hellene world. Thebes, Athens, and Sparta were the centres of power, culture, and philosophy of the ancient hellene city states. Macedonia was a backwater kingdom, the Macedonians seen as barbarians by the powerful Hellene city-statesand the Hellenes did not see the Macedonians as one of theirs. The Reign of Alexander the Great's father, Phillip II changed that. Phillip II wanted it united as a Macedonian state.

The blue and gold are taken from the flag of the Macedonian region in present-day Greece. The sun, the Vergina Sun, was a symbol commonly used by the Macedonian Kingdom. A traditional Greek striping pattern was used, as I felt it was just to good a fit to pass up. The name on the back, "ARGEAD," is the dynasty of Alexander the Great, the dynasty that ruled Macedonia for much of its history.

The Russian Empire is up next.

Nice man, but the Blue should be Red like it should be and Alexander was a Macedonian, not a Greek. Everyone knows that. The Hellenes did indeed see them as Barbaric, but they did certainly not think Macedonians were one of them. Demosthenes is a good source for that. Greeks did not even exist back then. Get your facts straight.

I like the design though

Please. Get my facts straight? Everything I posted is historical fact. What you're presenting aren't facts, but your opinion on the present day Macedonia/Greek controversy.

For the uninformed there's a modern day Republic of Macedonia and a region of Macedonia in present-day Greece. Greece is, of course, Greek. The modern day Republic of Macedonia is, however, Slavic in make-up, ethnically and culturally related to modern day Bulgaria.

The controversy is who gets to claim Alexander the Great as their own? The Slavic present day Macedonians or the Greeks? There's a lot of political back-and-forth going on, but at the end of the day we can only look back on the historical facts.

The fact of the matter is that the ancient Macedonians were Greek, arriving in the region from the Greek Peloponnese city of Argos. Alexander the Great was, himself, ethnically Greek, as were all ancient Macedonians. Ancient Macedonian art, literature, and philosophy were all Greek. Alexander the Great was even tutored by the Greek philosopher Aristotle. Upheavals in the region following the Roman invasion and later the collapse of the Byzantine Empire resulted in a mass exodus of Greeks from the region, and Slavic tribes filled the void.

The current Macedonian people are only referred to as Macedonians because they live on part of what was once the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia. There is NO continuity between the present day Republic of Macedonia and Alexander the Great.

Alexander the Great was Greek and ancient Macedonia was a Greek kingdom.

If anyone else wants further proof, consider that the states that were carved out of Alexander's Empire were all Greek in nature. Ptolemaic Egypt was an Egyptian kingdom dominated by a Greek ruling class, and the Seleucid Empire was a Greek-dominated Persian kingdom. In fact it's the Seleucid Empire that Judah the Maccabee revolted against. Why? Because the Seleucids were trying to force the Jews to worship Greek gods.

Sorry SP00, Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians were Greek. Any Classical Studies or Ancient History Professor can tell you that.

[SP00]

lol u mad bro?

Not so much as I am floored at your inability to grasp ideas such as joke concepts and why I don't want to do a CSA concept due to the controversy involved with that government.

Seriously? What about the controversy involved with the Greek government. The same government who occupied Aegean Macedonia, who tortured and murdered thousands of Macedonians just because they were Macedonian. The government who expelled Macedonians, who claimed their lands and gave it to Greek refugees from Asia Minor. The government who forbid the Macedonians to speak in their Macedonian language. The same government who renamed all Macedonian cities and villages into Greek sounding names, who forced Macedonians who did not fled, to change their surnames into Greek names. The government who scratched all Macedonian writing and wiped it all of Macedonian churches, who destroyed every single Macedonian grave.

Why aren't you as moral with these issues, as you are with the CSA issue? Yet, you even claim Macedonian symbols and history as your own. Im sorry but, that is beyond me.

[IceCap]

lol u mad bro?

Not so much as I am floored at your inability to grasp ideas such as joke concepts and why I don't want to do a CSA concept due to the controversy involved with that government.

Seriously? What about the controversy involved with the Greek government.

There is no controversy. Ancient Macedonia was a Greek kingdom. Modern day Macedonians are a Slavic tribe that are just using the name. The historical record is VERY clear about this. Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonia were Greek.

The same government who occupied Aegean Macedonia, who tortured and murdered thousands of Macedonians just because they were Macedonian. The government who expelled Macedonians, who claimed their lands and gave it to Greek refugees from Asia Minor. The government who forbid the Macedonians to speak in their Macedonian language. The same government who renamed all Macedonian cities and villages into Greek sounding names, who forced Macedonians who did not fled, to change their surnames into Greek names. The government who scratched all Macedonian writing and wiped it all of Macedonian churches, who destroyed every single Macedonian grave.

Ok. Please try to follow me here, because I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible.

The ancient kingdom of Macedonia was founded by Greeks who were originally from the ancient city-state of Argos. Ancient Macedonian culture was entirely Greek. Alexander the Great was Greek. All of this is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in the historical record.

Upheavals in the region forced the Macedonian Greeks to leave. Slavic tribes moved in. These Slavic peoples were the ancestors of modern day Macedonians. They have no connection to Alexander the Great or ancient Macedonia. Over time these Slavic peoples called themselves Macedonians because there were living in the area that was once the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. In 1912-1913 the Kingdom of Greece did indeed invade what is now Macedonia, which is what you're referring to. This has no barring, however, on the ancient kingdom of Macedonia. Ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great were, without a doubt, Greek. Your people, modern day Macedonians, are Slavic. You have no actual connection to ancient Macedonia beyond you happening to occupy the same physical space.

Why aren't you as moral with these issues, as you are with the CSA issue?

Because the two don't compare? At all.

Yet, you even claim Macedonian symbols and history as your own. Im sorry but, that is beyond me.

I don't claim them as my own. I'm half eastern European Jew and half British. Not a drop of Greek blood in me.

What you are doing, however, is claiming the symbols and history of an ancient Greek kingdom as your own. It's historically unacceptable.

Ah, yes. The Vergina Sun. The symbol of ancient Macedonia. You do realize that the modern day Slavic Republic of Macedonia no longer uses this symbol, right? Greece protested this use and a UN committee sided with them. Because the Vergina Sun is, culturally, a Greek symbol. Seeing as ancient Macedonia was a Greek kingdom.

[PHILADELPHIAFLYERS]

I'm have more historical knowledge in my pinky then you do in your entire pea-brained head.

The CSA went with grey because it was cheaper, yes, but the colour has since become associated with the Confederacy in the context of the Civil War. Ever heard of the Grey House? It's what the Confederates called their Presidential mansion.

Blue was never a prominent colour of the CSA, and likely never would have been. Their advisories, the United States, fielded an army that dressed in blue. Why would a national team representing the CSA ever wear blue themselves?

I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and I wouldn't expect someone from Ontario to have a great understanding of American history. Nonetheless, you have only made a fool of yourself. Your stupidity is truly astounding. =)

[MJWalker45]

Gran Colombia, not teh country of Colombia but the federation of countries that became Panama and Colombia

[SP00]

Anyway, Im going to stop now. Otherwise this is going to turn into a huge discussion about history and politics. I dont want that. This is a sports logo forum. Thanks god most people know the truth and all the truth will come out, time will tell everything.

Im looking forward in seeing more nice designs

[IceCap]

I'm have more historical knowledge in my pinky then you do in your entire pea-brained head.

The CSA went with grey because it was cheaper, yes, but the colour has since become associated with the Confederacy in the context of the Civil War. Ever heard of the Grey House? It's what the Confederates called their Presidential mansion.

Blue was never a prominent colour of the CSA, and likely never would have been. Their advisories, the United States, fielded an army that dressed in blue. Why would a national team representing the CSA ever wear blue themselves?

I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and I wouldn't expect someone from Ontario to have a great understanding of American history. Nonetheless, you have only made a fool of yourself. Your stupidity is truly astounding. =)

Please. I've probably know more about your country's history and political landscape then you do.

You have also yet to refute any of my own points. So that says something. You're not interested in debate, just trolling.

Anyway, Im going to stop now. Otherwise this is going to turn into a huge discussion about history and politics. I dont want that.

Then you shouldn't have edited my concept post.

This is a sports logo forum. Thanks god most people know the truth and all the truth will come out, time will tell everything.

Yes. Most people know Alexander the Great was Greek. Seriously. This is as basic a historical fact as saying Winston Churchill was British.

Im looking forward in seeing more nice designs

I look forward to putting out more designs.

[SP00]

Ok. Please try to follow me here, because I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible.

The ancient kingdom of Macedonia was founded by Greeks who were originally from the ancient city-state of Argos. Ancient Macedonian culture was entirely Greek. Alexander the Great was Greek. All of this is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in the historical record.

Im not following you and you really dont need to explain it to me clearly because you have it wrong. I stopped reading where you started to say that the macedonian kingdom was found by greeks lol. Its clear that you really have no idea about this history and the Macedonian issue. So as I said, Im not even going there, especially not on here. Again, this is a sports forum. Ive said what I wanted to say above.

Have a nice day

[IceCap]

Ok. Please try to follow me here, because I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible.

The ancient kingdom of Macedonia was founded by Greeks who were originally from the ancient city-state of Argos. Ancient Macedonian culture was entirely Greek. Alexander the Great was Greek. All of this is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in the historical record.

Im not following you and you really dont need to explain it to me clearly because you have it wrong. I stopped reading where you started to say that the macedonian kingdom was found by greeks lol. Its clear that you really have no idea about this history and the Macedonian issue. So as I said, Im not even going there, especially not on here. Again, this is a sports forum. Ive said what I wanted to say above.

Have a nice day

Actually I know exactly what I'm talking about. You get to know what you're talking about when you study the history of the ancient world in an impartial manner and you're not clouded by cultural bias and state propaganda.

[UnclearInitial]

Ok. Please try to follow me here, because I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible.

The ancient kingdom of Macedonia was founded by Greeks who were originally from the ancient city-state of Argos. Ancient Macedonian culture was entirely Greek. Alexander the Great was Greek. All of this is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in the historical record.

Im not following you and you really dont need to explain it to me clearly because you have it wrong. I stopped reading where you started to say that the macedonian kingdom was found by greeks lol. Its clear that you really have no idea about this history and the Macedonian issue. So as I said, Im not even going there, especially not on here. Again, this is a sports forum. Ive said what I wanted to say above.

Have a nice day

Uhmmm, Alexander the Great worshiped Greek gods, was tutored by Aristotle, and established greek culture in the world. Current Macedonia is a Slavic nation with no ties to ancient Macedonia.

[tvko]

This debate is asinine. There's one troll, one idiot, and Ice Cap.

With Russia, it's a pretty good concept, not much can be done to improve upon it. The double stripe is a nice touch.

[IceCap]

This debate is asinine. There's one troll, one idiot, and Ice Cap.

Hehe. This got a legit chuckle out of me

With Russia, it's a pretty good concept, not much can be done to improve upon it. The double stripe is a nice touch.

Thanks. Like I said it's Russia. The emblems of the Empire are similar to the ones of the current Federation. It's just going to be....Russia.

I'm a fan of the thick double stripe design myself, and I liked how my plan for a triple striped allusion to the Russian tricolour translated to a nice double stripe in practice.

[SP00]

Uhmmm, Alexander the Great worshiped Greek gods, was tutored by Aristotle, and established greek culture in the world. Current Macedonia is a Slavic nation with no ties to ancient Macedonia.

Dear Sir. Those weren't 'Greek' gods. The word 'Greek' or ethnicity as in 'Greeks' was not known back then. Some may say it still doesnt exist, because they say modern day Greeks are just a mix of Albanian Arvanites, Turks and Macedonians. The only people who are close to anything Greek are the Cretans.

There were Hellenic gods and Hellenic culture. Yes, Alexander worshipped the Hellenic gods, but does that say anything? I mean, people in Germany are Christians and People in lets say Barbados are christians too. Does that make them both the same people, just because they share the same religions? No, that's ridiculous to state, yet it is what you just did.

Back then there was the Hellenic world, comprised of city states, Athens, Sparta etcetera.. That hellenic world was the most developed known world back then, you can compare it to the Western world right now. Their culture was dominant, just like western culture is dominant in modern day. In that world, there was a lingua franca, the hellenic languages. So it is normal that the Macedonians, who were seen as barbarians accepted the lingua franca and embraced the hellenic culture. That doesnt mean they were hellenes. People in Germany and Netherlands speak English too, just because it is a lingua franca. Doesnt mean they are English.

But, even though they embraced hellenic culture and language, they also maintaine their own Macedonian language and their own customs.

Besides, Macedonians are not slavic. Being Slavic is rather a linguistic term isntead of an ethnic term. But fine, if you speak about ties from then until now, then the modern Greeks have no ties with the ancient Hellenes either. We are all mixed, there is no 100 Homogenic nation in the world, even though Greece claims it to be lol

And Aristotle being a 'Greek' is disputed also. He was born on Macedonian soil actually and got schooled in Athens.

[IceCap]

Uhmmm, Alexander the Great worshiped Greek gods, was tutored by Aristotle, and established greek culture in the world. Current Macedonia is a Slavic nation with no ties to ancient Macedonia.

Dear Sir. Those weren't 'Greek' gods. The word 'Greek' or ethnicity as in 'Greeks' was not known back then. There were Hellenic gods and Hellenic culture. Yes, Alexander worshipped the Hellenic gods, but does that say anything? I mean, people in Germany are Christians and People in lets say Barbados are christians too. Does that make them both the same people, just because they share the same religions? No, that's ridiculous to state, yet it is what you just did.

Back then there was the Hellenic world, comprised of city states, Athens, Sparta etcetera.. That hellenic world was the most developed known world back then, you can compare it to the Western world right now. Their culture was dominant, just like western culture is dominant in modern day. In that world, there was a lingua franca, the hellenic languages. So it is normal that the Macedonians, who were seen as barbarians accepted the lingua franca and embraced the hellenic culture. That doesnt mean they were hellenes. People in Germany and Netherlands speak English too, just because it is a lingua franca. Doesnt mean they are English.

But, even though they embraced hellenic culture and language, they also maintaine their own Macedonian language and their own customs.

Besides, Macedonians are not slavic. Being Slavic is rather a linguistic term isntead of an ethnic term. But fine, if you speak about ties from then until now, then the modern Greeks have no ties with the ancient Hellenes either.

And Aristotle being a 'Greek' is disputed also. He was born on Macedonian soil actually and got schooled in Athens.

There is so much wrong with this post...

Please stop.