Historical Nations Hockey Concepts 2.0

[Buster]

I wasn't kidding when I suggested Atlantis....actually I just discovered there was a New Atlantis and they had a flag, for their 7 voters.

http://eupdates.hrc.utexas.edu/site/PageServer?pagename=Hemingway_New_Atlantis

http://debonairdavid.blogspot.com/2009/06/new-atlantis.html

Also, what about a Bermuda Triangle team?

[IceCap]

I'll get around to Atlantis. Probably as the last one I do. Just because I want to work on the historical nations before I start crossing the line into fantasy. Glad you liked my bin Laden concept though

Anyway Saar will be up later on today.

[tvko]

Tibet is sweet. No criticism other than the socks are weird.

[IceCap]

The Saar Protectorate, 1947-1956

Saar became a French department in 1798 when victorious French Republican forces captured the area from the Holy Roman Empire. Prussia took control of the area in 1814 when Napoleon I was defeated, and it became part of the German Empire when that state was formed in 1871.

Saar fell under he joint rule of the British and French following Germany's defeat in World War I for fifteen years. During this time the coal mined in Saar was ceded to France as part of France's agenda to use Germany's defeat to punish the nation for the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71.

Hitler began sending pro-Nazi Germans into the area after he was elected Chancellor of Germany in 1933. 1935 was the year that Saar would vote in a plebiscite to determine its future, and Hitler wanted to ensure the vote was for annexation into the Third Reich. British and French civilians, and anti-Nazi Saar Germans noticed what Hitler was doing and lobbied for the League of Nations to extend Britain and France's administration of the area indefinitely. Nationalist German sentiment was among the majority of the German population, however, and the plebiscite was held as scheduled. 91% voted to rejoin Germany. Anti-Nazi Germans who had fled to Saar after Hitler's 1933 victory were imprisoned.

The United States pulled its army out of the region after 1946 to be redeployed in the rest of Germany as part of the Allied occupation. France moved its military into Saar and established a Protectorate, a political entity separate from from the rest of Ally occupied Germany. The British, American, and French zones of occupation would be merged into the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany), but Saar would remain a distinct entity, a nominally independent nation. Nominal was the key word, as it lacked any form of substantial government. It was referred to as its own country, it had its own flag, its own coat of arms, and its own seat in the European Community (precursor to the EU). It was completely and totally governed by France, however.

The French decided to take the opposite approach to Saar then what the Soviets had done in the eastern Baltic German lands. The Soviets had expelled the German population from these lands, removing the centuries-long German presence on the Baltic. The French, instead, opted to rule over Saar with a light touch. Their hope was to swing the German population of the Protectorate towards either independence or annexation to France in any future plebiscite. Meanwhile France continued to control the coal production in Saar.

France had now been attacked by Germany three times since 1870. They were determined to cripple Germany's ability to attack France again, and the Saar Protectorate was part of that plan. By keeping the industrial and coal mining centres in the Saar out of Germany it weakened Germany's economic position. Beginning in 1947 the French introduced the Saar mark as the Protectorate's legal currency, furthering France's plans to establish it as an entity outside of Germany's influence.

In 1954 France tried to establish Saar as an independent entity, but the population rejected this. This was interpreted by the international community as Saar wanting to join the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). In 1956 both West Germany and France signed the Saar Treaty in which it was admitted into the Federal Republic of Germany. The treaty stated that in return for Saar West Germany had to establish a channel system on the Moselle River to reduce the shipping costs of the French steel industry, as well as promise that French would be taught as the first language in all schools in Saar. Interestingly enough French is still the primary language of Saar schools, even though this part of the treaty is no longer binding.

In 1956 the Saar Protectorate was no more, integrated into the Federal Republic of Germany as the state of Saarland.

Everything's pretty straightforward here. I wanted to avoid letting the flag design take over the sweater, as that was my Achilles heel with this project my last go around, most of the sweaters looked like giant flags. I wanted the theme of the flag reflected throughout the striping, but I wanted it done subtly. The stripes also allude to the flag of the French Republic, the state that ruled over the Protectorate for the entirety of its existence. I opted to not continue the chest striping across the back because it just look bad once the numbers were placed on top.

The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies is up next.

[ChuckDownfield]

Saar looks good, but I would thicken up the middle stripe and the flag.

[tvko]

Yeah, what he said. I know you were trying to de-emphasize the flag, but I would make it just a little thicker (think Red Wings winter classic). Otherwise, great job.

EDIT: I like the thinner stripe more, comparing the two.

[IceCap]

A thicker chest stripe/logo....

[Patchey13]

I actually liked the thin stripe more.

[rams80]

I've enjoyed this concept series. Any chance you'll tackle other minor/semi-minor statelets? Say Bavaria or Venice.

[IceCap]

Yep. I plan on getting to those in due time

[ChuckDownfield]

Ok, now I think you should lose the white outlines of the flag, and extend the horizontal white flag stripe throughout the middle stripe. So it would end up looking like an elongated version of the flag.

[alexgizh]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions thus far. I'll see what the German Empire looks like with a more conventional font.

The Macedonian Empire, 808 BCE-146 BCE

Alexander the Great and ancient Macedonia seem to go together like George Washington and the United States. Which speaks a lot to the achievements of Alexander's family more then anything. Alexander the Great, aka Alexander III of Macedonia, was from the boonies of the ancient Hellene world. Thebes, Athens, and Sparta were the centres of power, culture, and philosophy of the ancient hellene city states. Macedonia was a backwater kingdom, the Macedonians seen as barbarians by the powerful Hellene city-statesand the Hellenes did not see the Macedonians as one of theirs. The Reign of Alexander the Great's father, Phillip II changed that. Phillip II wanted it united as a Macedonian state.

The blue and gold are taken from the flag of the Macedonian region in present-day Greece. The sun, the Vergina Sun, was a symbol commonly used by the Macedonian Kingdom. A traditional Greek striping pattern was used, as I felt it was just to good a fit to pass up. The name on the back, "ARGEAD," is the dynasty of Alexander the Great, the dynasty that ruled Macedonia for much of its history.

The Russian Empire is up next.

Nice man, but the Blue should be Red like it should be and Alexander was a Macedonian, not a Greek. Everyone knows that. The Hellenes did indeed see them as Barbaric, but they did certainly not think Macedonians were one of them. Demosthenes is a good source for that. Greeks did not even exist back then. Get your facts straight.

I like the design though

Please. Get my facts straight? Everything I posted is historical fact. What you're presenting aren't facts, but your opinion on the present day Macedonia/Greek controversy.

For the uninformed there's a modern day Republic of Macedonia and a region of Macedonia in present-day Greece. Greece is, of course, Greek. The modern day Republic of Macedonia is, however, Slavic in make-up, ethnically and culturally related to modern day Bulgaria.

The controversy is who gets to claim Alexander the Great as their own? The Slavic present day Macedonians or the Greeks? There's a lot of political back-and-forth going on, but at the end of the day we can only look back on the historical facts.

The fact of the matter is that the ancient Macedonians were Greek, arriving in the region from the Greek Peloponnese city of Argos. Alexander the Great was, himself, ethnically Greek, as were all ancient Macedonians. Ancient Macedonian art, literature, and philosophy were all Greek. Alexander the Great was even tutored by the Greek philosopher Aristotle. Upheavals in the region following the Roman invasion and later the collapse of the Byzantine Empire resulted in a mass exodus of Greeks from the region, and Slavic tribes filled the void.

The current Macedonian people are only referred to as Macedonians because they live on part of what was once the ancient Greek kingdom of Macedonia. There is NO continuity between the present day Republic of Macedonia and Alexander the Great.

Alexander the Great was Greek and ancient Macedonia was a Greek kingdom.

If anyone else wants further proof, consider that the states that were carved out of Alexander's Empire were all Greek in nature. Ptolemaic Egypt was an Egyptian kingdom dominated by a Greek ruling class, and the Seleucid Empire was a Greek-dominated Persian kingdom. In fact it's the Seleucid Empire that Judah the Maccabee revolted against. Why? Because the Seleucids were trying to force the Jews to worship Greek gods.

Sorry SP00, Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians were Greek. Any Classical Studies or Ancient History Professor can tell you that.

First off, this is really no place to debate on the possible ethnic background of Macedonians, ancient or present. One of the rights granted to ALL by the UN is the right of self-determination. And being Macedonian myself, why must I succumb to greek, bulgarian or serb threats and blackmails? Are we not equal? And please don't use the "Tito made today's Macedonians from Serbs and Bulgars" because it is absurd almost as saying that Alexander was greek. Or maybe it's a cover up of the genocide of the Macedonians from 1913 to 1949 that the greek government commited?

[nash61]

I think it would look better with the black and gold reversed. It would be the rare case of Black-not-for-black's-sake, since it's integral to the concept anyway.

I also think a gold eagle instead of a black one would keep it from looking too much like a flag copy-paste. It's not your strongest concept, but I like the red shoulders and I think it would really stand out more on a black jersey.

Here it is in black

I kept the black eagle though. The German national team currently doesn't feature a gold eagle on their black sweater, because a gold eagle isn't the national emblem. A black eagle is. I used the same reasoning here. A black double headed eagle was the emblem of the Holy Roman Empire. A gold one wouldn't have accurately reflected the nation.

I actually much prefered the gold. The black makes it look too much like the current German national team.

Also, for Saar, I prefer the thin stripe. Other than that, it's excellent

[IceCap]

First off, this is really no place to debate on the possible ethnic background of Macedonians, ancient or present.

First off, you're a little late to this party. We've all moved on.

One of the rights granted to ALL by the UN is the right of self-determination.

That's super.

1) What does that have to do with anything? 2) Where did I ever say people weren't entitled to the right of self-determination?

And being Macedonian myself, why must I succumb to greek, bulgarian or serb threats and blackmails?

Where did I say you had to?

Are we not equal?

As human beings yes. Again, I'm not sure how this has anything to do with this series.

And please don't use the "Tito made today's Macedonians from Serbs and Bulgars" because it is absurd almost as saying that Alexander was greek.

I thought you said that this wasn't the place to debate the ethnic makeup of Macedonians, ancient or otherwise? Saying Alexander the Great wasn't Greek sounds like a debate if I've ever heard one.

I'll go back to what I said earlier though. You're late to this discussion, everyone having moved on from it. If you REALLY want to debate this, PM me. I will not allow this "debate" to consume any more space in my thread.

Or maybe it's a cover up of the genocide of the Macedonians from 1913 to 1949 that the greek government commited?

I'm the wrong person to talk about genocides with.

[charger77]

Cap, I had no idea your were responsible for the plight of the Macedonian people.

Dick!

[IceCap]

I'd come clean but I'm not giving "the man" at the World Court the satisfaction.

[charger77]

I'd come clean but I'm not giving "the man" at the World Court the satisfaction.

Well, I'm sure you're already on their radar due to the fact that you controll the media and banks.

[IceCap]

Don't forget the Presidency. Everyone thinks Obama's a secret Muslim. Oh, how wrong you all are.

[IceCap]

Ok, now I think you should lose the white outlines of the flag, and extend the horizontal white flag stripe throughout the middle stripe. So it would end up looking like an elongated version of the flag.

[GeauxColonels]

Ok, now I think you should lose the white outlines of the flag, and extend the horizontal white flag stripe throughout the middle stripe. So it would end up looking like an elongated version of the flag.

Looks great. I would probably move the vertical white line a little more to the left just so the asymetica nature of the design is clearly evident. Plus, I think it would be a little more reflective of the flag.