What should replace Fighting Sioux?

[JBBlackwell]

Fighting Sioux

[-kj]

Fighting Sioux

Hurr, hurr. That's so witty.

[mafiaman]

Since they are joining the Big Sky Conference next season, how about we just call them Bobcat Food?

How'd that Cat/Griz game turn out this year?

[-kj]

Just so this doesn't get out of hand: Less rivalry chatter, more name discussion.

[winghaz]

Which is why the NCAA had to get involved; most times the schools can't be trusted to do what's right without an incentive.

This situation, as we have said before, is different from many native name cases. It's more like an intellectual property dispute. There are two extant tribes using the name, and I can't see a single legitimate case for borrowing it without their express permission.

Personally, I think it's a shame that the second tribe wasn't interested in licensing the nickname. But no matter how much I disagree with the decision, it's their decision to make and we all have to respect it.

Which leads to what I think might be the real reason for the three-year wait before a new nickname; I suspect that the University might be hoping that a new tribal governing body is chosen in the interim, one which would be more receptive to licensing the name. And if that happens, I would personally be okay with that as well. My objection to this particular name is based on my respect for intellectual property rights, and if the IP holders don't mind, why should I?

First, why should you mind? You don't live in North Dakota. This is a North Dakota issue, and one that also involves the Sioux tribes of North Dakota. I agree, the bottom line is it should be up to the tribes ... and not the NCAA.

Second, Standing Rock has a lot of reason to say, "Screw you, UND," and just sit on this issue. UND has often ignored not just Standing Rock, but all of western and central North Dakota. But the theory has been that if Standing Rock would allow tribal members to vote on this issue, the tribal members would overwhelmingly vote in favor of it, just as the Spirit Lake tribal members did.

Third, I'm strongly against the three-year waiting period. I agree that Spirit Lake's legal issues have to be dealt with, but UND does need to move on. A team needs a nickname, just as a person needs a name.

That being the case, I'd like to see more real suggestions for a new UND nickname.

[Gothamite]

We all are free to have opinions on these topics, even if we are not local.

My point was that this is up to the tribes, not anyone else, pro or con.

[winghaz]

We all are free to have opinions on these topics, even if we are not local.

My point was that this is up to the tribes, not anyone else, pro or con.

Good! Then the NCAA should have had no saying in it, right? It should have been up to the tribes, which it wasn't.

[Gothamite]

It is up to the tribes to decide whether or not to license the name. And decide they did.

You might not like the way one of those tribes made its decision (and neither may I) but that doesn't change the fact that the elected authorities of that tribe, in what I believe is accordance with its own laws, properly made a decision not to allow the university to license the name.

The NCAA only provided a means for enforcing the decision, since universities can't be trusted to do the right thing on their own.

[-kj]

...and considering that the University is voluntarily a member of the NCAA, they are bound by the policies of the NCAA should they wish to participate in NCAA-sanctioned competitions and events.

[winghaz]

It is up to the tribes to decide whether or not to license the name. And decide they did.

You might not like the way one of those tribes made its decision (and neither may I) but that doesn't change the fact that the elected authorities of that tribe, in what I believe is accordance with its own laws, properly made a decision not to allow the university to license the name.

The NCAA only provided a means for enforcing the decision, since universities can't be trusted to do the right thing on their own.

Ummm, the Standing Rock tribe made no decision. The tribal council even made a point of saying it made no decision. No decision doesn't mean it didn't license the name. Reading this as refusing to license the name is really reading a lot into the Standing Rock non-decision.

I would have liked to see the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribal councils get together on this and sort it out. They didn't. So it's time to move on ... unless the Spirit Lake tribe's lawsuit is given some merit in courts.

[-kj]

No decision doesn't mean it didn't license the name.

Isn't that exactly what that means? I mean, if they didn't make a decision in the affirmative, they didn't license it.

[Gothamite]

Exactly my thought.

You can get into a semantic discussion about them refusing to refuse permission, but what was needed on their part was an affirmative act to grant the license. Which they did not do.

[Big A HG]

Exactly my thought.

You can get into a semantic discussion about them refusing to refuse permission, but what was needed on their part was an affirmative act to grant the license. Which they did not do.

The only reason Spirit Lake voted was because UND would have been allowed to keep the nickname had both tribes agreed to let UND use it. This vote didn't take place pre-NCAA, and it was a vocal minority that only spoke out against the nickname. UND was just listening to the majority of people throughout it's tenure with Fighting Sioux as the nickname. How is that so wrong? The tribal leaders have the final say in the process, and Spirit Lake actually let their people vote to decide. Since their people were in favor of it, they approve of the nickname. It's kind of sad that Standing Rock won't even let their people vote to decide in a democratic process.

It's amazing how UND is looked at like this demeaning, oppressive university because some people believe the nickname and logo is actually harmful. It could be, but isn't. The logo itself was designed by a Native American. The name was never used in a derogatory manner on campus.

Spirit Lake is now suing the NCAA over their decision. It's kind of funny really. The organization that thinks they know what's best for Native Americans is now getting sued by them.

[Big D]

UND should probably have their new nickname after the state horse; the Lakotas. North Dakota Lakotas don't sound too bad, but Bison would sound better. Except North Dakota State University already has Bison has theirs.

[Gothamite]

It's kind of sad that Standing Rock won't even let their people vote to decide in a democratic process.

It isn't our call; if the people of Standing Rock are unhappy with their leaders' decision, they have elections to express that unhappiness.

When you strip away all the hyperbole, this boils down to a very simple case of licensing intellectual property. There are two owners from which the university must secure a license. One of those decided not to license their property, and that's that.

We may not like their decision, nor how they came to that decision, but they were well within their rights and we have to respect that decision.

[Brick]

More name ideas:

- Fighting Suh

Why not? His first name begins with "ND"!

[hettinger_rl]

UND should probably have their new nickname after the state horse; the Lakotas. North Dakota Lakotas don't sound too bad, but Bison would sound better. Except North Dakota State University already has Bison has theirs.

The horse is Nokota. Lakota is another Siouian tribe.

[IceCap]

It's kind of sad that Standing Rock won't even let their people vote to decide in a democratic process.

Nothing sad about it. The Standing Rock tribe's leadership is democratically elected. Those leaders making a decision on behalf of all of their people embodies the spirit of representative democracy.

[Gothamite]

True enough; voting for leaders who make decisions for the nation as a whole is "a democratic process".

[The_Admiral]

The Blackhawks should buy the Fighting Sioux's Indian head and give it to the IceHogs. 75% serious.