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Evil Doctor

NCAA sanctions North Dakota

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I'm surprised this hasn't hit this board yet...

NCAA announces sanctions to North Dakota for use of nickname, logo

Dear Dr. LeBel:

President Robert Kelly (sic) recently informed me that the University of North Dakota was resuming its use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and imagery in connection with its athletics program. I noted in my discussion with you and Mr. Brain (sic) Faison that this action by the university means that your athletic programs are subject to the NCAA?s policies concerning participation in NCAA championships. Please allow me to reiterate the limitations that are in effect immediately:

1. No University of North Dakota team may host an NCAA championship round. If a North Dakota team is selected as the lower-seeded team in a championship competition, North Dakota would be designated as the ?home? team but would be assigned to play at the higher-seeded institution?s venue.

2. If the university accepts an invitation to participate in any postseason competition, the NCAA policy requires that student-athletes, band, cheerleading, dance and mascot uniforms and paraphernalia not have hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references during the NCAA championship competition.

3. If an invitation is accepted and the university must forfeit competition because it has not adhered to this requirement, the NCAA reserves its right to seek reimbursement for expenses incurred by the Association for travel, per diem or other expenses in connection with the championship.

It is the spirit of the NCAA?s championship policy that the competing student-athletes (both North Dakota and its opponents) not be distracted or disrupted during the championship by debates about when and where your institution?s Native American imagery or nickname may be displayed or worn. Therefore, we ask that the university take measures to minimize or eliminate the presence of the imagery or nickname brought to an NCAA championship venue.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

Bernard W. Franklin

Executive Vice President of Membership and Student-Athlete Affairs/Chief Inclusion Officer

As far as I know, this doesn't effect Siouxie Sioux....

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OK, I don't see the problem here.

In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.

With North Dakota, they aren't hurting anyone with the nickname or the logo. Why punish the players and fans of the University of North Dakota for standing up in saying 'Hey. Who are you to say that our logo and nickname is offensive? Yes, our nickname is named after a Native American tribe and yes, our logo has a Native American on it, but we will be damned if we have to change it to appease someone who is butting in.'

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Where's the dead_horse.gif when we need it?

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Why am I not surprised that the NCAA couldn't correctly spell the names of the people they're punishing?

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OK, I don't see the problem here.

In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.

Wrong...it's a slippery slope toward political correctness destroying this once great nation. Savages was not established to offend. It's tradition. Anyone who does not like it can just keep their mouth shut. Down with PC! SE OK ST Savages forever!

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OK, I don't see the problem here.

In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.

Wrong...it's a slippery slope toward political correctness destroying this once great nation. Savages was not established to offend. It's tradition. Anyone who does not like it can just keep their mouth shut. Down with PC! SE OK ST Savages forever!

Durrr.... howcome no one ever says Notre Dame's logo is racist?

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Why am I not surprised that the NCAA couldn't correctly spell the names of the people they're punishing?

At first I assumed the guy's name was really Brain...and for a second, I thought about changing my name to the same thing.

Seriously, how hard is it to spell Brian?

1. No University of North Dakota team may host an NCAA championship round. If a North Dakota team is selected as the lower-seeded team in a championship competition, North Dakota would be designated as the ?home? team but would be assigned to play at the higher-seeded institution?s venue.

The NCAA has it's playoff logic backwards. The higher seed = better rank. They get confused because mathematically, 16 is higher than 1, therefore a #1 seed is a low seed. But in traditional playoff formats, the #1 team is the highest seed.

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So as long as they don't wear Sioux gear to NCAA tournament games, they're ok to the NCAA?

If that's the case, I'd just keep the name and call it a day.

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I hope that's only the start of the penalties.

But then, I tend to value intellectual property.

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I hope that's only the start of the penalties.

But then, I tend to value intellectual property.

Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?

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I never thought of it as an IP issue. And I'm pretty sure IP is not why the NCAA is cracking down on it.

However, this is like cat with nine lives, only this cat has about 20. Years of debate, then the deal to get the two tribes to approve, then that doesn't happen, then they go to retire the name, state legislature says no, NCAA says you better, state legislature says OK, UND changes websites, logos, etc., petition signatures force vote.

You couldn't make this up.

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I hope that's only the start of the penalties.

But then, I tend to value intellectual property.

Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?

In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles".

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I hope that's only the start of the penalties.

But then, I tend to value intellectual property.

Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?

In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles".

The Sioux received that name from other tribes. The ones that didn't enjoy their interactions with the Sioux.

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Regardless of how they came to acquire the name, they own it now. All North Dakota had to do was secure a license to use it. They failed to do so, and as a consequence they can't use the name.

I know that native naming issues are fraught with emotional baggage, but this one is tremendously simple. They want to use the name, they need to get a license from the organizations that control the name. In the absence of such a license, they can't use it.

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This is not about intellectual property. It's about state law.

See, the University of North Dakota was getting rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname. But then once North Dakota secretary of state was given enough signatures to put the issue on the ballot as a referral, it became state law again because the referral is about bringing back the original law from the legislature that kept the nickname. UND has no choice but to comply with state law. It had to put state law ahead of NCAA rulings.

This is why I say the NCAA should and must not go against state law.

But there is plenty of other silliness going on here. The State Board of Higher Education is suing the Secretary of State office, trying to block the referrel because it claims the original legislation was unconstitutional. Yes, one state agency suing another state agency. The State Supreme Court will decide on this.

To make it even crazier, the Secretary of State office would normally have the State Attorney General office as its counsel. Except the State Board of Higher Education already has the State Attorney General office as ITS counsel, so the Secretary of State office had to get its own lawyers. Sheesh.

There is only one group of winners in all of this -- lawyers.

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Well that's a crock, Goth. You can't just say "regardless of how they came to acquire the name, they own it now" in one breath, and in the other breath discount decades and decades of use and ownership by UND.

There is NO OWNERSHIP of the name. This is not an issue of ownership or licensing.

The NCAA has decided that a couple of many Sioux tribes get to decide whether any schools in their organization get to use the name. That's how that organization is choosing to operate. But those couple tribes do not in any actuality own that name.

It makes for an easy argument to say that's the case, but it's not factual. Especially if you're going to allow the principle of "well it doesn't matter how it came to be because that's how it is now." You start throwing that principle into this discussion, and the whole argument eats away at itself.

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I hope that's only the start of the penalties.

But then, I tend to value intellectual property.

Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?

In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles".

The Sioux received that name from other tribes. The ones that didn't enjoy their interactions with the Sioux.

Gotcha. Thanks.

North Dakota State has done it right. Just go with an animal.

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The state of North Dakota aren't the ones determining UND's membership in the NCAA though, are they?

The NCAA has laid out the stipulations for UND to be able to keep using the name. UND has so far failed to meet the criteria as laid out. Whether anyone agrees with it or not, this is the deal

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Exactly.

UND has a contract with the NCAA. Rather than honestly and openly try to to re-negotiate the contract, the state has cravenly passed a law making part of that contract illegal. Cowards.

"State law" as the end all and be all has been an unpersuasive argument for nearly 150 years.

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So do you punish an institution because it is handcuffed by state law? That seems wrong and unfair.

But that's the NCAA for you -- wrong and unfair on a lot of things.

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