Evil Doctor Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm surprised this hasn't hit this board yet...NCAA announces sanctions to North Dakota for use of nickname, logoDear Dr. LeBel:President Robert Kelly (sic) recently informed me that the University of North Dakota was resuming its use of the Fighting Sioux nickname and imagery in connection with its athletics program. I noted in my discussion with you and Mr. Brain (sic) Faison that this action by the university means that your athletic programs are subject to the NCAA?s policies concerning participation in NCAA championships. Please allow me to reiterate the limitations that are in effect immediately:1. No University of North Dakota team may host an NCAA championship round. If a North Dakota team is selected as the lower-seeded team in a championship competition, North Dakota would be designated as the ?home? team but would be assigned to play at the higher-seeded institution?s venue.2. If the university accepts an invitation to participate in any postseason competition, the NCAA policy requires that student-athletes, band, cheerleading, dance and mascot uniforms and paraphernalia not have hostile or abusive racial/ethnic/national original references during the NCAA championship competition.3. If an invitation is accepted and the university must forfeit competition because it has not adhered to this requirement, the NCAA reserves its right to seek reimbursement for expenses incurred by the Association for travel, per diem or other expenses in connection with the championship.It is the spirit of the NCAA?s championship policy that the competing student-athletes (both North Dakota and its opponents) not be distracted or disrupted during the championship by debates about when and where your institution?s Native American imagery or nickname may be displayed or worn. Therefore, we ask that the university take measures to minimize or eliminate the presence of the imagery or nickname brought to an NCAA championship venue.Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me.Sincerely, Bernard W. Franklin Executive Vice President of Membership and Student-Athlete Affairs/Chief Inclusion Officer As far as I know, this doesn't effect Siouxie Sioux.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadragon76 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 OK, I don't see the problem here.In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.With North Dakota, they aren't hurting anyone with the nickname or the logo. Why punish the players and fans of the University of North Dakota for standing up in saying 'Hey. Who are you to say that our logo and nickname is offensive? Yes, our nickname is named after a Native American tribe and yes, our logo has a Native American on it, but we will be damned if we have to change it to appease someone who is butting in.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee. Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Where's the dead_horse.gif when we need it? Welcome to DrunjFlix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Why am I not surprised that the NCAA couldn't correctly spell the names of the people they're punishing? POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 OK, I don't see the problem here.In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.Wrong...it's a slippery slope toward political correctness destroying this once great nation. Savages was not established to offend. It's tradition. Anyone who does not like it can just keep their mouth shut. Down with PC! SE OK ST Savages forever! Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illwauk Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 OK, I don't see the problem here.In the case of, say, Division II Southeastern Oklahoma State (who were once called the 'Savages'), the name change made sense because, let's face it, 'Savages' is a pretty damn cruel name to place on anyone let alone Native Americans.Wrong...it's a slippery slope toward political correctness destroying this once great nation. Savages was not established to offend. It's tradition. Anyone who does not like it can just keep their mouth shut. Down with PC! SE OK ST Savages forever!Durrr.... howcome no one ever says Notre Dame's logo is racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Why am I not surprised that the NCAA couldn't correctly spell the names of the people they're punishing?At first I assumed the guy's name was really Brain...and for a second, I thought about changing my name to the same thing. Seriously, how hard is it to spell Brian?1. No University of North Dakota team may host an NCAA championship round. If a North Dakota team is selected as the lower-seeded team in a championship competition, North Dakota would be designated as the ?home? team but would be assigned to play at the higher-seeded institution?s venue.The NCAA has it's playoff logic backwards. The higher seed = better rank. They get confused because mathematically, 16 is higher than 1, therefore a #1 seed is a low seed. But in traditional playoff formats, the #1 team is the highest seed. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonBlue Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So as long as they don't wear Sioux gear to NCAA tournament games, they're ok to the NCAA? If that's the case, I'd just keep the name and call it a day. "I did absolutely nothing and it was everything I thought it could be." -Peter Gibbons RIP Demitra #38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I hope that's only the start of the penalties. But then, I tend to value intellectual property. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I hope that's only the start of the penalties. But then, I tend to value intellectual property.Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours? On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaytonBlue Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I never thought of it as an IP issue. And I'm pretty sure IP is not why the NCAA is cracking down on it.However, this is like cat with nine lives, only this cat has about 20. Years of debate, then the deal to get the two tribes to approve, then that doesn't happen, then they go to retire the name, state legislature says no, NCAA says you better, state legislature says OK, UND changes websites, logos, etc., petition signatures force vote.You couldn't make this up. "I did absolutely nothing and it was everything I thought it could be." -Peter Gibbons RIP Demitra #38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I hope that's only the start of the penalties. But then, I tend to value intellectual property.Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles". Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I hope that's only the start of the penalties. But then, I tend to value intellectual property.Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles".The Sioux received that name from other tribes. The ones that didn't enjoy their interactions with the Sioux. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Regardless of how they came to acquire the name, they own it now. All North Dakota had to do was secure a license to use it. They failed to do so, and as a consequence they can't use the name. I know that native naming issues are fraught with emotional baggage, but this one is tremendously simple. They want to use the name, they need to get a license from the organizations that control the name. In the absence of such a license, they can't use it. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winghaz Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This is not about intellectual property. It's about state law.See, the University of North Dakota was getting rid of the Fighting Sioux nickname. But then once North Dakota secretary of state was given enough signatures to put the issue on the ballot as a referral, it became state law again because the referral is about bringing back the original law from the legislature that kept the nickname. UND has no choice but to comply with state law. It had to put state law ahead of NCAA rulings.This is why I say the NCAA should and must not go against state law.But there is plenty of other silliness going on here. The State Board of Higher Education is suing the Secretary of State office, trying to block the referrel because it claims the original legislation was unconstitutional. Yes, one state agency suing another state agency. The State Supreme Court will decide on this.To make it even crazier, the Secretary of State office would normally have the State Attorney General office as its counsel. Except the State Board of Higher Education already has the State Attorney General office as ITS counsel, so the Secretary of State office had to get its own lawyers. Sheesh.There is only one group of winners in all of this -- lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL FANATIC Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Well that's a crock, Goth. You can't just say "regardless of how they came to acquire the name, they own it now" in one breath, and in the other breath discount decades and decades of use and ownership by UND.There is NO OWNERSHIP of the name. This is not an issue of ownership or licensing.The NCAA has decided that a couple of many Sioux tribes get to decide whether any schools in their organization get to use the name. That's how that organization is choosing to operate. But those couple tribes do not in any actuality own that name.It makes for an easy argument to say that's the case, but it's not factual. Especially if you're going to allow the principle of "well it doesn't matter how it came to be because that's how it is now." You start throwing that principle into this discussion, and the whole argument eats away at itself. JUSTIN STRIEBEL | PORTFOLIO | RESUME | CONTACT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I hope that's only the start of the penalties. But then, I tend to value intellectual property.Don't you have to create the name for it to be yours?In what sense? Florida State didn't make up a tribe called "Seminoles".The Sioux received that name from other tribes. The ones that didn't enjoy their interactions with the Sioux.Gotcha. Thanks.North Dakota State has done it right. Just go with an animal. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee. Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The state of North Dakota aren't the ones determining UND's membership in the NCAA though, are they?The NCAA has laid out the stipulations for UND to be able to keep using the name. UND has so far failed to meet the criteria as laid out. Whether anyone agrees with it or not, this is the deal Welcome to DrunjFlix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Exactly. UND has a contract with the NCAA. Rather than honestly and openly try to to re-negotiate the contract, the state has cravenly passed a law making part of that contract illegal. Cowards. "State law" as the end all and be all has been an unpersuasive argument for nearly 150 years. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winghaz Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 So do you punish an institution because it is handcuffed by state law? That seems wrong and unfair.But that's the NCAA for you -- wrong and unfair on a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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