NFL in Toronto

[walby2]

I'm not sure about that, and it's the primary reason I don't want an NFL team in Toronto. If the Argos could co-exist with a Toronto-based NFL team, then cool. The far more likely scenario, in my opinion, is that the NFL in Toronto would kill the Argos. In addition to killing off one of the oldest pro football franchises around it would also devastate the CFL. While Toronto isn't as passionate for the Argos as some other CFL cities are for their teams the presence of the Argos in the CFL is invaluable. Having a team in Canada's largest media market makes the CFL appealing to Canadian broadcasters and advertisers. Take Toronto out of the league and I don't see it lasting for very long. Now I like NFL football, but I also like the CFL. So I'd rather not see the latter collapse.

On top of that you'd have to find a way to work Canadian broadcasting into the existing NFL broadcasting contracts, which could be difficult given how much American networks payed for those contracts. Not to mention that Toronto has no long term NFL viable stadium, and no chance of getting civic funds to build one. I see London as more likely than Toronto, and I don't think London's very likely at all for its own reasons.

15 years ago I would have agreed with that sentiment. I still agree that generally speaking, the NFL in Toronto would hurt the Argos and the CFL. But I'm no longer convinced that the NFL in Toronto would mean the end of either.

The reality of the Toronto sports market is that the Argonauts have been reduced to a more or less niche interest. They have more in common with the Rock, the Marlies and TFC than they do with the bigger teams with mainstream appeal like the Leafs, Jays and to a lesser extent, the Raptors. It has been that way since the end of the McNall era. The 75,000 or so hardcore fans who make up the Argos attendance base over the course of a season probably aren't going anywhere even if the NFL comes to town. In other words, it really can't get any worse for the Argos than it is now. So even if they continue to draw 20,000 fans a game, they could still be a viable operation.

In addition, the CFL is still a profitable enterprise and it would be in the rest of the league's interest (as well as TSN's) to prop up the Argonauts if need be to ensure that the country's biggest television market is represented with a team. Not an ideal solution, but if the alternative is subsidizing a Toronto team vs. essentially letting the CFL collapse without a team in the GTA, it is not a tough decision to make.

It's possible that with a less adversarial approach than the one demonstrated by Rogers, it could be possible to have TWO profitable, well supported pro football teams in Toronto. If I were a Toronto football fan, that's certainly what I'd want. That's how the Argos will have to respond if the NFL takes the unlikely step of putting a team in Toronto - convince sports fans that more is better and that there are two teams worthy of support.

[Funky Bunky]

What day does the CFL play on?

[BigBubba]

Speaking of the Argos, their lease at the SkyDome expires after this year. If the Blue Jays can install grass in there (which they're looking at), they will do so in a heartbeat, kicking the Argos out. The only viable option would be BMO Field, which would still have an obstacle, as the owners poured concrete in the would-be end-zones, making the possible field dimensions too small for CFL football. Even if they don't get grass, though, there's no way an NFL team is going to play in there. If they ever get serious about acquiring an NFL team, they will have to get a new stadium (which may not fly with some, considering how the SkyDome went way over budget when it was built, then sold for 4% of the cost 15 years later).

As much as I would love to see it become a reality, I don't see Toronto getting an NFL team for some time to come.

[illwauk]

Isn't the capacity of the University of Toronto's stadium around 20,000? Seems to me that would be the most logical fit if the Argos left the Sky Dome.

[Breakwood]

Isn't the capacity of the University of Toronto's stadium around 20,000? Seems to me that would be the most logical fit if the Argos left the Sky Dome.

Nope. The renovated Varsity Stadium is really small. 5,000 might be pushing it.

[illwauk]

Well, I guess that settles that.

[Breakwood]

Well, I guess that settles that.

The old Varsity had about 20,000 seats. When renovations came around the Argos chose to stay at the Rogers Centre rent-free over financing the Varsity Reno. It's a shame. Varsity might have done for the Argos what Molson Stadium did for the Alouettes.

[walby2]

Well, I guess that settles that.

The old Varsity had about 20,000 seats. When renovations came around the Argos chose to stay at the Rogers Centre rent-free over financing the Varsity Reno. It's a shame. Varsity might have done for the Argos what Molson Stadium did for the Alouettes.

Massive missed opportunity. Old Varsity was a nice little shoebox of a stadium in a stellar location. Considering that Molson Stadium was practically decrepit when the Als moved back there in 1998, it probably wouldn't have been that hard to get Varsity up and running again. The Argos owners at the time (Cynamon & Sokolowski) screwed up badly on that one, especially given the Als proved how successful a CFL team could be by going back to its roots. Then they botched a potential deal to get a stadium built at York University, not to mention getting in on the ground floor with BMO Field. So when the Argos find themselves at the mercy of Rogers Centre, they really have themselves to blame for not building themselves a stadium when it was still feasible.

[Jer15]

The Argos are SOL if Rogers Centre becomes essentially a baseball only facility, I honestly think they will end up in Mississauga if that happens, as that city has cash. It's a little far fetched, I know, but outside of MLSE stepping in I can't see another stadium being built with public money in Toronto.

[vmd9]

I'm all for the Bills moving (can't stand them), but would rather they end up in LA as opposed to Toronto.

And yes it's exactly because of the whole "move every US hockey team to Canada" discussions that never seem to go away. If teams of Canadian sports belong in Canada, than teams of US sports belong in the US.

[The_Admiral]

And yes it's exactly because of the whole "move every US hockey team to Canada" discussions that never seem to go away.

I wish I could do something about the discussions which take place entirely within your head but I don't know how I can help you.

[DarkJourney]

Does Toronto still want to lure the Summer Olympics?

A new Olympic Stadium would definitely have to be built for that.

[ninersdd]

I'm all for the Bills moving (can't stand them), but would rather they end up in LA as opposed to Toronto.

And yes it's exactly because of the whole "move every US hockey team to Canada" discussions that never seem to go away. If teams of Canadian sports belong in Canada, than teams of US sports belong in the US.

Someone can't stand the Bills and Pirates? Huh? Also people say that Phoenix and Phoenix only should go to Quebec.

[IceCap]

Does Toronto still want to lure the Summer Olympics?

A new Olympic Stadium would definitely have to be built for that.

The question's money. The city's near broke, and they've made it quite clear that they aren't directing what little they have towards a sporting facility.

[walby2]

Does Toronto still want to lure the Summer Olympics?

A new Olympic Stadium would definitely have to be built for that.

The question's money. The city's near broke, and they've made it quite clear that they aren't directing what little they have towards a sporting facility.

Ironically enough, I think the political culture in Canada is much more hostile towards building pro sports facilities than in the US. It was different back in the 80s, but these days almost nothing in Canada gets built for pro sport with public coin.

In some ways, a NFL owner would probably do much better trolling around the tier 2 US cities salivating for the NFL limelight than going to Ontario where the government would tell them to take a hike. You play your cards right and you might be able to get a free stadium in someplace like Louisville, Omaha, Portland or wherever. That's simply not going to happen in Toronto.

[Jer15]

Just thought of something else.....

What about the old "Canadian Football Act"? I know that it was never signed when Trudeau brought it up, as the Northmen moved to Memphis, but isn't it essentially just sitting there waiting to be dusted off and signed?

I mean, I hope I'm wrong, I just kind of thought about that right now.

[walby2]

Just thought of something else.....

What about the old "Canadian Football Act"? I know that it was never signed when Trudeau brought it up, as the Northmen moved to Memphis, but isn't it essentially just sitting there waiting to be dusted off and signed?

I mean, I hope I'm wrong, I just kind of thought about that right now.

It died on the books in the 1970s. It's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where a government would attempt to enact and enforce this kind of legislation in the current age, assuming that it were even possible under the framework of NAFTA and the WTO.

[Jer15]

Just thought of something else.....

What about the old "Canadian Football Act"? I know that it was never signed when Trudeau brought it up, as the Northmen moved to Memphis, but isn't it essentially just sitting there waiting to be dusted off and signed?

I mean, I hope I'm wrong, I just kind of thought about that right now.

It died on the books in the 1970s. It's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where a government would attempt to enact and enforce this kind of legislation in the current age, assuming that it were even possible under the framework of NAFTA and the WTO.

Yeah, you make a good point, and I guess with the Bills already playing home games in Toronto it shows that there is no interest in bring that up again. I guess I was just thinking about all the wrenches that could ever possibly be thrown into the plan.

[BigBubba]

And yes it's exactly because of the whole "move every US hockey team to Canada" discussions that never seem to go away.

Hate to break it to you, but those discussions never happen. The general consensus is that Canada deserves one, maybe two more NHL teams. I have no idea where people like you got the idiotic idea that Canadians want every NHL team.

If teams of Canadian sports belong in Canada, than teams of US sports belong in the US.

People don't want another hockey team in Canada because it's a Canadian sport. They want it because it makes sense financially. If Toronto could support an NFL team, they deserve one.

That is probably one of the worst posts I have ever read on this website.