NFL in Toronto

[colortv]

What are the odds Toronto gets an NFL team within the next 5-10 years?

[GO2HELL]

Never

[Funky Bunky]

The NFL isn't going to expand anytime soon, and the first team to relocate is going to LA.

[29texan]

The NFL isn't going to expand anytime soon, and the first team to relocate is going to LA.

.... who said anything about expanding?

[Funky Bunky]

The NFL isn't going to expand anytime soon, and the first team to relocate is going to LA.

.... who said anything about expanding?

Well how's the NFL going to put a team in Toronto without either expanding or relocation, smart guy?

[BrySmalls]

The NFL isn't going to expand anytime soon, and the first team to relocate is going to LA.

.... who said anything about expanding?

Well how's the NFL going to put a team in Toronto without either expanding or relocation, smart guy?

Have the Buffalo Bills play more "home" games in Toronto over the course of the next few seasons.

Next question please.

[sportstar1212]

Toronto most definitely can't support an NFL team. The crowd they draw for Bills games at the dome is a joke.

[epper]

Toronto most definitely can't support an NFL team. The crowd they draw for Bills games at the dome is a joke.

Toronto most certainly can support an NFL team, if they got their own team in a real football stadium. Bills games in Toronto have been grossly overpriced (no tickets under $100), in a terrible mausoleum of a stadium, and featuring a team that the city doesn't call its own. Torontonians are an elitist bunch and if you gave them their own team, I have no doubts it would be a success. Greater Toronto has over 6 million people to build a fanbase from, something that only 5 other North American cities can say.

In my opinion, its a matter of when, not if, Toronto gets a team. I really hope it's not at the expense of the Bills, since they have an outstanding fan base and truthfully, going to games in Toronto just wouldn't be as fun as going to Orchard Park. More traffic, stricter alcohol regulations.

Now that the Vikings have a stadium in place, I think the Jags and Rams will be on the move to LA and Toronto sooner rather than later.

[walby2]

There is no question that over the long haul, a NFL team in Toronto would need a new stadium. Based on cost estimates for the new Mpls. stadium, I'd imagine that a new NFL stadium and associated improvements would run around $1 billion. Even if you cut back here and there and built something minimalist in nature (like the football equivalent of BMO Field), it's hard to imagine that you could get away with building something for less than $600 million.

The question then becomes who would build such a facility? Is the NFL in Toronto such a lucrative undertaking that private investors would take on a nearly billion dollar stadium project on their own, plus the expense associated with buying a franchise? I have my doubts.

More likely it will take some level of government investment to get a new stadium built. And given the bad experiences with government-funded stadiums in this country, combined with the predictable public opposition to spending public funds to subsidize a NFL team, I would think the politicians (Rob Ford excepted) will stay well away from that for now. The reality is that if you're a politician in a market struggling to keep its NFL team (like Minnesota), there will be immense public pressure to do everything possible to retain something that generations have grown up with. That is not the case in Toronto and it is, frankly, quite easy to say no to a team that doesn't exist.

So for the short term I'd say it doesn't look promising for the NFL in Toronto. That said, if it ever got over this substantial initial hurdle of massive capital costs, I think it would easily be able to keep the team afloat (but then again, what major city couldn't, give or take Jacksonville?).

[BBTV]

Toronto most definitely can't support an NFL team. The crowd they draw for Bills games at the dome is a joke.

Toronto most certainly can support an NFL team, if they got their own team in a real football stadium. Bills games in Toronto have been grossly overpriced (no tickets under $100), in a terrible mausoleum of a stadium, and featuring a team that the city doesn't call its own. Torontonians are an elitist bunch and if you gave them their own team, I have no doubts it would be a success. Greater Toronto has over 6 million people to build a fanbase from, something that only 5 other North American cities can say.

In my opinion, its a matter of when, not if, Toronto gets a team. I really hope it's not at the expense of the Bills, since they have an outstanding fan base and truthfully, going to games in Toronto just wouldn't be as fun as going to Orchard Park. More traffic, stricter alcohol regulations.

Now that the Vikings have a stadium in place, I think the Jags and Rams will be on the move to LA and Toronto sooner rather than later.

Minor nitpick, but I count 6 metro areas in the US with 6M or more, and 7 depending on how you measure DC.

Regardless, save for the "elitist bunch" comment, I agree with your post that Toronto could absolutely support a team given the right circumstances (i.e. it's theirs, new stadium, etc.)

[kmccarthy27]

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

I would just wonder if they will allow the NFL team to be the Argo's too. That would be awesome.

[walby2]

I would just wonder if they will allow the NFL team to be the Argo's too. That would be awesome.

Doubtful. Seems more likely that the Argos would simply co-exist with a prospective NFL team. The CFL couldn't pull out of Toronto unless there was no other choice.

[colortv]

There is no question that over the long haul, a NFL team in Toronto would need a new stadium. Based on cost estimates for the new Mpls. stadium, I'd imagine that a new NFL stadium and associated improvements would run around $1 billion. Even if you cut back here and there and built something minimalist in nature (like the football equivalent of BMO Field), it's hard to imagine that you could get away with building something for less than $600 million.

The question then becomes who would build such a facility? Is the NFL in Toronto such a lucrative undertaking that private investors would take on a nearly billion dollar stadium project on their own, plus the expense associated with buying a franchise? I have my doubts.

More likely it will take some level of government investment to get a new stadium built. And given the bad experiences with government-funded stadiums in this country, combined with the predictable public opposition to spending public funds to subsidize a NFL team, I would think the politicians (Rob Ford excepted) will stay well away from that for now. The reality is that if you're a politician in a market struggling to keep its NFL team (like Minnesota), there will be immense public pressure to do everything possible to retain something that generations have grown up with. That is not the case in Toronto and it is, frankly, quite easy to say no to a team that doesn't exist.

So for the short term I'd say it doesn't look promising for the NFL in Toronto. That said, if it ever got over this substantial initial hurdle of massive capital costs, I think it would easily be able to keep the team afloat (but then again, what major city couldn't, give or take Jacksonville?).

Likely would take 3-4 major bankrollers owning the team who are willing to invest in the majority of the money needed for the stadium?

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

I would just wonder if they will allow the NFL team to be the Argo's too. That would be awesome.

Whats the reason they have first right of refusal?

[dfwabel]

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

The NFL Constitution does not allow corporation to own a franchise.

[kmccarthy27]

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

The NFL Constitution does not allow corporation to own a franchise.

Understood, but I probably meant the main people who own that company first crack.

[epper]

Minor nitpick, but I count 6 metro areas in the US with 6M or more, and 7 depending on how you measure DC.

I count 5 (4 in the US), but we all know how reliable wikipedia is.

[epper]

(whoops, probably should have combined these posts..)

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

The NFL Constitution does not allow corporation to own a franchise.

Understood, but I probably meant the main people who own that company first crack.

Nope, there is no succession plan in place for the Bills (at least not announced publicly) once Ralph Wilson passes away. He will not sell the team, and his family doesn't want it. It will be sold off to the highest bidder, which could be Rogers, or rumours have Jim Kelly and a bunch of other rich dudes putting together a team to keep them in Buffalo.

[IceCap]

I would just wonder if they will allow the NFL team to be the Argo's too. That would be awesome.

Doubtful. Seems more likely that the Argos would simply co-exist with a prospective NFL team. The CFL couldn't pull out of Toronto unless there was no other choice.

I'm not sure about that, and it's the primary reason I don't want an NFL team in Toronto. If the Argos could co-exist with a Toronto-based NFL team, then cool. The far more likely scenario, in my opinion, is that the NFL in Toronto would kill the Argos. In addition to killing off one of the oldest pro football franchises around it would also devastate the CFL. While Toronto isn't as passionate for the Argos as some other CFL cities are for their teams the presence of the Argos in the CFL is invaluable. Having a team in Canada's largest media market makes the CFL appealing to Canadian broadcasters and advertisers. Take Toronto out of the league and I don't see it lasting for very long. Now I like NFL football, but I also like the CFL. So I'd rather not see the latter collapse.

On top of that you'd have to find a way to work Canadian broadcasting into the existing NFL broadcasting contracts, which could be difficult given how much American networks payed for those contracts. Not to mention that Toronto has no long term NFL viable stadium, and no chance of getting civic funds to build one. I see London as more likely than Toronto, and I don't think London's very likely at all for its own reasons.

[Jer15]

I thought Rogers (the company) has first buy rights if the Bills ownership decides ever to sell the team. Which is why that Bills in Toronto thing is the way it is.

I would just wonder if they will allow the NFL team to be the Argo's too. That would be awesome.

I've heard that too, but I highly doubt that it is true.

Also, I doubt the Argos would survive, the Argos will fold or relocate (sadly) if the NFL comes to Toronto I can't see them being able to fight for the football dollar, they have a hard enough time selling tickets as it is.

But let's be realistic for a minute here, there is no moving to Toronto happening while LA still doesn't have a team. That's priority #1 for the NFL.

After that, someone has to build a stadium in Toronto. Rogers might, but it won't be the city as the city is flat broke. I doubt it will be the province as they are building all sorts of new facilities for the Pan American Games.

My point is, it's very far away from happening if it is going to happen.

[BBTV]

Minor nitpick, but I count 6 metro areas in the US with 6M or more, and 7 depending on how you measure DC.

I count 5 (4 in the US), but we all know how reliable wikipedia is.

Well Phila and Houston are close enough to qualify on that list, but I was looking at Metro Statistical Areas and Combined Metro Statistical Areas. Not sure that any one is any more valid than the others, and they're basically close enough.