Washington Redskins Rebranding Project

[El Dandy]

Native Americans say the name is offencive. It's the equivalent of the N-word. Theirs is the only opinion that should matter on the subject, and it's all I'm going to say on the subject.

So no one else can even comment or offer a differing opinion?

That's offencive!

Why should anyone else's opinion matter on this topic other than the group who could take offense?

I'm not trying to be heavy-handed, either. If a team's name is found to be offensive by a group of people because it insults their race, why should any other race's opinion matter? You're not the one who's race is being used.

Think of it this way: if the team's name was the Washington Blackskins and groups of African-Americans found the name offensive, would we even have this discussion at all?

And just as a note, I'm not really in favor of changing the team name, nor am I against it. My opinion on the subject doesn't really matter. But if a real, scientific poll gets taken of the Native American community (the decade old one from SI isn't really valid because SI refused to make certain information public, and it's a decade old at this point) and it's clear that a majority of that community wants the name changed, I don't see how "history" can prevail.

[jakemon08]

Native Americans say the name is offencive. It's the equivalent of the N-word. Theirs is the only opinion that should matter on the subject, and it's all I'm going to say on the subject.

So no one else can even comment or offer a differing opinion?

That's offencive!

Why should anyone else's opinion matter on this topic other than the group who could take offense?

I'm not trying to be heavy-handed, either. If a team's name is found to be offensive by a group of people because it insults their race, why should any other race's opinion matter? You're not the one who's race is being used.

Think of it this way: if the team's name was the Washington Blackskins and groups of African-Americans found the name offensive, would we even have this discussion at all?

And just as a note, I'm not really in favor of changing the team name, nor am I against it. My opinion on the subject doesn't really matter. But if a real, scientific poll gets taken of the Native American community (the decade old one from SI isn't really valid because SI refused to make certain information public, and it's a decade old at this point) and it's clear that a majority of that community wants the name changed, I don't see how "history" can prevail.

I hunt near a reservation. All the Natives root for the Redskins and wear Redskins coats and hats and sweatshirts even though we live in SOUTH DAKOTA. There's no reason someone from here would root for them. The only reason they do IS because they are called the Redskins. They are proud of it, not offended by it.

[kfitz]

Alright, here we go, I've jumped down the rabbit hole. First post for me on the SL forum after a long time of just following, and it's right in the middle of a Redskins debate. I don't have anything too inflamatory to say though. I am in favor of changing the name, but I also accept that many Native Americans are fine -- proud even -- of it. I don't quite understand that, but it's their prerogative. (As for me, I just try to refer to the team as "Washington.")

Anyway, mainly I think that, should a renaming ever happen, the name Warhawks would be a great option. Kind of hilarious, for a team based so closely to the Pentagon. Really, isn't that what D.C. is all about?

[El Dandy]

I definitely think there are many cases of Native Americans embracing the name as a symbol of pride; I don't think it's fair for me (or for anyone) to make a blanket statement that the term is going to be offensive to every Native American, because generalizations are misleading.

My entire point is that no matter what anyone's opinion is on the debate, it shouldn't enter into the discussion if you're not a member of the group that could take offense; I'm not in the group that is (allegedly) being disparaged. Who am I to dictate to a whole group of people that they should or shouldn't be offended?

Jakemon, your example does a good job of illustrating this -- there ARE Native Americans who have come to embrace the term "Redskin." That said, there are also Native Americans who consider the word their N-word. There are differences of opinion within the group, and until someone can get an accurate read on their feelings of the name, both sides should just chill out.

All of that said, none of this has anything to do with the actual redesign, which I think should be considered on its own merits, independent of one's feelings of the controversy.

[hugevolsfan]

"but I also accept that many Native Americans are fine -- proud even -- of it. I don't quite understand that, but it's their prerogative. (As for me, I just try to refer to the team as "Washington."

I think Native Americans may like a team that has been very successful named after them because Washington is not making fun of Native Americans they are actually saying this team in some ways represents them.

For that very reason I have always had a hard time understanding why people would get upset of a sports team nickname.

It is not like the teams are using the name in a ugly or offensive manner for the most part the name of team usually represents something historical or even cultural

[Buster]

What's going on everyone? Happy Friday! As you all probably know by now, the mayor of the city of Washington DC would like to the Washington Redskins to change their name, because he finds the name racist towards Indians (it's about time). Although the name has a lot of history to it, I think it would be good for Washington to change their name, one reason being because the name Redskins is a little racist, and another being because they are going into a new era under RGIII. I was planning on making a rebrand, but theres only one problem, I can't think of a name. I narrowed it down to a couple, those few being the Washington Minutemen, Washington Colonials, and Washington Generals. I am open to new names, though. I would like to do something along the lines of old military, though. I have decided on a color scheme, navy blue and gold. I have already created a player model, which is seen below. So, what do you guy's think? What do you think the name should be? What do you think about the uniform? Let me know. (Note: I left the word "Redskins" on the chest of the player model because I don't know the team name yet, I will replace it when the name is decided)

First of all, it's not racist. The actual people who are supposed to be offended, the Native Americans, are NOT offended. It's white politicians and PC-happy liberals who can't live a day without crying that they're offended by something. It has lost many times in court and needs to be put to bed. Besides, if you change it to a military name like Generals, another group of anti-gun, ant-military beta people are going to be offended. You can't live life trying to please the crybabies of this society because you'll destroy yourself trying.

Secondly, you've just taken one of the better color schemes in the NFL as well as 80 years of tradition and flushed them in favor of a dull set of colors being used too often. The Capitals and Wizards of the same town got rid of this ugly color scheme.

Do not approve.

That is all.

[TimEOBrien]

Change the name, don't change the name (they're not gunna ever change the name...) one fact remains: Redskins is a racial epithet. If you still want that as your team name, fine.

[Midway]

And it's hypocritical to cry foul and "liberalzzz!!" and whatnot when you're also putting yourself in a position to speak for Native Americans. The bottom line is the name is derogatory, no matter which way you spin it. I would expect we would have more respectability to see that and do something about it.

This coming from someone who doesn't care if the name is changed or not, but facts are facts

[drdougfresh]

Beginning Topic —> Ending Topic

Cleveland Browns —> Grey Facemasks

Oregon Football —> Branding

Nike Football Uniforms —> Flywire

Washington Redskins —> Racism

Some things never change.

[illwauk]

"but I also accept that many Native Americans are fine -- proud even -- of it. I don't quite understand that, but it's their prerogative. (As for me, I just try to refer to the team as "Washington."

I think Native Americans may like a team that has been very successful named after them because Washington is not making fun of Native Americans they are actually saying this team in some ways represents them.

For that very reason I have always had a hard time understanding why people would get upset of a sports team nickname.

It is not like the teams are using the name in a ugly or offensive manner for the most part the name of team usually represents something historical or even cultural

You have a hard time understanding why a racial slur is seen as ugly or offensive?

First of all, it's not racist. The actual people who are supposed to be offended, the Native Americans, are NOT offended.

Really? Because I have a tribal ID card from the Menominee Nation and I don't recall ever being asked.

[hugevolsfan]

"but I also accept that many Native Americans are fine -- proud even -- of it. I don't quite understand that, but it's their prerogative. (As for me, I just try to refer to the team as "Washington."

I think Native Americans may like a team that has been very successful named after them because Washington is not making fun of Native Americans they are actually saying this team in some ways represents them.

For that very reason I have always had a hard time understanding why people would get upset of a sports team nickname.

It is not like the teams are using the name in a ugly or offensive manner for the most part the name of team usually represents something historical or even cultural

You have a hard time understanding why a racial slur is seen as ugly or offensive?

First of all, it's not racist. The actual people who are supposed to be offended, the Native Americans, are NOT offended.

Really? Because I have a tribal ID card from the Menominee Nation and I don't recall ever being asked.

They, the team called the Washington Redskins, are calling themselves that so why would someone get offensive obviously Washington takes pride in the name.

When a team takes a name they are honoring what it represents.

The team is saying we want to be like a Redskin!

I guess I just don't see it as being a racial slur sorry.

[tBBP]

Okay here's a question for you: what's a "Redskin" like?

----------------------------------------------------------

On another note, if George Preston Marshall really wanted to "honor" any Native American group(s), he'd have simply kept the name "Braves" when he moved the team from Boston down to DC—being that the name "Braves" was in honor of the team's then-coach, "Lone Star" Dietz, whose mother (supposedly) was of Sioux descent. But he didn't do that, now did he? Nope. He renamed the team after what at the time was, and still today is, seen by some as an ethnic pejorative...including members of the ethnicity to which it refers which is the key here. What you also need to know is that a/ he was one of the most ardent bigots of his time, and b/ the Redskins was THE LAST NFL club to desegregate...by fifteen years. IN THE NATION'S CAPITAL. For f*&k's sake the man had the cotdamn KKK backing his cause to "keep the team white". It took an overbearing amount of pressure from Civil Rights leaders and even then-President Kennedy to force the man to desegregate his team. Now does that sound like "honorable" to you? Damn sho' don't to me...and I'm willing to bet I ain't the only one.

And if you don't see it as a racial slur, it's because you may not be a member of the offended. (I won't assume.) Now granted, some Native American groups are okay with this name and even cheer for the team. Some, however, are completely against it. Just like the situation up in North Dakota with the Fighting Sioux name...one tribe was cool with it, the other one wasn't. NCAA rules differ from thr NFL's, obviously, in that (I don't think) Jolly Roger can force Snyder and Co. to change the name, but I'm pretty sure if he felt the need to he could put a lot of pressure on him.

Look, the point of the matter is this...unless one is a member of the offended party, it'd probably behoove him/her not to speak on personal assumptions of how they feel about things. And second, name change or no, fans of the team will STILL be fans of the team, DC will still love it, and the globe will keep spinning. (Unless the apocalypse happens. )

[hugevolsfan]

This is the last I will comment on this hopefully.

I do not know much about the owner who called the team what he did.

If he was a bigot & I will assume he was why would he name his team a racial slur because he is saying that is what his team is.

Just does not make sense but then again if the guy was like that no telling what he thought.

Anyways I do have some Native American heritage handed down from my maternal grandmother but not sure how deep it goes so I will let it be

[airbob]

how about the "woo-woo indians" you know..so people don't confuse them with the "dot-head indians"

[pHiL Kizer]

I would love to see them re-branded as the Washington Pigskins and they can call themselves the "Skins" for short like they do now. I feel all stereotype based mascots should be changed. Comedian Chris Rock made a joke once, he said what if there was a team called the New York "N-words"? We wouldn't like that too much. I even feel the Celtics (my favorite basketball) team should be included and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish logo should be replaced or removed.

[El Dandy]

I'd argue that there's a huge difference between what's wrong with the Redskins or the Indians' names than there is with, as examples, the Trojans, the Celtics, the Spartans, the Vikings, or even the Fighting Irish.

The principal difference is for each of the non-Native American team names, there's either a regional and cultural reason that makes sense (Minnesota has a large Scandinavian population, Notre Dame was founded by people of Irish descent, Boston has an enormous Irish population), or it's honoring a part of the Western tradition. Some people blindly say that if it's not okay to call a team "Indians" then it shouldn't be okay to use "Spartans," but this ignores that the Spartans lived thousands of years ago; that historical data suggests their savagery in battle was accurate; that stories like the Battle of Thermopylae are a part of the Classical Western tradition -- the same tradition that colleges and universities refer to in their teaching. I can understand if there is some discomfort there with the latter example, but everyone's mileage will vary.

I'd also argue that if people are correct in their assertion that "Redskins" or "Indians" honor Native Americans, that it's suggesting something wholesale about the entire race that simply shouldn't be tolerated. There are better ways to evoke/honor Native Americans than a racial slur OR the smiling red caricature. As examples, I think "Chiefs" and "Braves" are far more appropriate. Again, others' mileage will vary.

[Whittier S]

I think the sports brands that have most successfully honoured Native Americans are the original Phoenix Coyotes brand and the current Seattle Seahawks brand. I have to appreciate thinking outside the box to achieve a solution that works for everyone.

[Darth Brooks]

As being part Native American I really get tired of people who say Washington Reskins is not racist. How is it not?

There are a million different names Washington could call their team.

I suspect this was an accident but it may be just the solution. Gentlemen, I present the Washington Reskins.

[ElTeduardo]

The Cleveland Indians were named after a former player.

[FUNKAFIED]

I think there's a huge difference between Indians, Braves, Sioux, Seminoles, Illini, etc and the name Redskins. I equate the word redskin to that of calling them savages. I do think the super PC crowd has gone a little overboard in some cases, but if you're going to change the name of the Washington Bullets and not the Redskins, you're setting a confusing precident.

I'm more offended they can't call Texas vs. Oklahoma the "Red River Shootout" anymore. Racism is ok, but GUNS ARE SCARY Ooooooooooooooooo!