Are "Divisions/Conferences" a good/bad thing in sports?

[RoughRiders99]

I was having a conversation about this with a few friends of mine. I'm in favor of divisions because it builds great rivalries, keeps travel costs down and just give off that sort of "regional pride" thing or whatever you want to call it. But I'm in favor of it mainly for the first two things I listed. I'm sure there's a few other pros to it, such as balanced schedule and stuff like that.

But one of my friends "hates" the idea of divisions in general. He doesn't feel that divisions are fair because what if one division is stronger than the other. He's a Tampa Bay Rays fan, so he always have a hard time dealing with the AL East since the Rays actually are a good team, they rarely get into the playoffs due to the Yankees and Red Sox (when they were good). His idea of a perfect schedule is that EVERY team play against each other at least once or twice (a la round robin thing). I tried to explain it to him that it's "nearly" impossible do to that sort of thing in today's professional sports due to travel costs, time zones, rivalries, numbers of game per season (MLB 162, NBA/NHL 82, NFL 16), etc etc etc. But he's like, so, all the leagues have money, they can afford it, only way the schedule can be fully 100% balanced, etc etc.

EDIT: Just talked to my friend about this again. He said to keep the travel costs down, a team could use an airline as one of the teams' sponsors. What do you think of that?

One of my another friends said that he's okay either way as long they get a balanced schedule and a fair system for everyone to have a chance to make it to the playoffs. As long there's the right system there, he's cool with it.

So what do you think?

Are you in a favor of it or not? I know I am in favor of it.

[DaytonBlue]

They're needed in such a large continent as North America to keep the travel reasonable. As it is, there are too many back to back games in the NBA or NHL where the team playing a back to back looks sluggish.

[Epiphanic]

A perfectly balanced schedule still doesn't solve the issue your friend has (Rays not getting into the playoffs) if divisions still exist. If the Rays are the 3rd best team in the East, they're the third best team in the East regardless of the schedule*. If a league should choose to go to a single table format, you have to ask the question of why have playoffs at all? Wouldn't it be better to just crown the regular season champion as the league champion?

*For what it's worth, the unbalanced schedule doesn't really mean much in baseball. It's like a game at most and that only happens at the extreme (really good or really bad teams). Teams in the middle gain about a half a game. That isn't to say that an unbalanced schedule is great, but it isn't some great handicap that teams must overcome. Source

[Breakwood]

EDIT: Just talked to my friend about this again. He said to keep the travel costs down, a team could use an airline as one of the teams' sponsors. What do you think of that?

Yeah cause some airline is going to pay a sports team thousands of dollars to be their sponsor, and then fly them around for free?

[The_Admiral]

Just talked to my friend about this again. He said to keep the travel costs down, a team could use an airline as one of the teams' sponsors.

[JackieMoon]

To keep costs down its a good thing. Other than that, it doesn't matter to me.

[RoughRiders99]

EDIT: Just talked to my friend about this again. He said to keep the travel costs down, a team could use an airline as one of the teams' sponsors. What do you think of that?

Yeah cause some airline is going to pay a sports team thousands of dollars to be their sponsor, and then fly them around for free?

I'm sure he didn't mean that way. I'm sure they can get some kind of a super discount or something like that.

[dfwabel]

EDIT: Just talked to my friend about this again. He said to keep the travel costs down, a team could use an airline as one of the teams' sponsors. What do you think of that?

Yeah cause some airline is going to pay a sports team thousands of dollars to be their sponsor, and then fly them around for free?

I'm sure he didn't mean that way. I'm sure they can get some kind of a super discount or something like that.

That makes it seem even more illogical since very few airlines turn a quarterly profit.

[RoughRiders99]

Another thing that could favor the Divisional concept is that it gives more teams a chance to make the playoffs while the single tablet concept (no divisions at all) could lead to more powerhouses and the lower teams would never get a chance to make the playoffs.

[floydnimrod]

The Rays will have plenty of opportunities to make the playoffs. The Red Sox & Yankees don't go to the playoffs every year. We have no idea what will happen in 20 years, where its possible both teams could have different ownership groups. There will be times when the Yankees, Red Sox, and any other time that might be good now, will be crappy down the road.

Divisions still make sense.

[RETROJR79]

For MLB, NFL, NHL they're were better with the old division format and the NBA current division worked good.

NHL was going to go back to the 4 division format before that buffoon Don Fehr ruined it.

[The_Admiral]

that buffoon Don Fehr

Elaborate, please. I'd love to hear it.

[ElwoodCuse]

the NHLPA torpedoed 4-division realignment because (a) they were allowed absolutely no input during the process and (b )the unbalanced divisions made it easier for some teams to make the playoffs

[Funky Bunky]

To eliminate travel costs, I say we just simulate the seasons on PlayStation!

[JackieMoon]

I would like to see all leagues incorporate a more even strength of schedule.

[RETROJR79]

the NHLPA torpedoed 4-division realignment because (a) they were allowed absolutely no input during the process and (b )the unbalanced divisions made it easier for some teams to make the playoffs

Thank Elwood.

[Gothamite]

Unless you're going to use a single-table to determine the championship, conferences and divisions are a must.

Having division championships, and giving those champions preferential seeding in the playoffs, makes the end of a season much more exciting.

[Viper]

They're needed in such a large continent as North America to keep the travel reasonable. As it is, there are too many back to back games in the NBA or NHL where the team playing a back to back looks sluggish.

This, as I understand it, is the same reason why promotion/relegation systems never caught on in the US or Canada - geographical and travel issues associated with the likelihood of having too many teams concentrated in a few small regions.

[max]

Iowa does not allow county lines to to be split for the purpose of drawing state electoral districts.

The goal of a league is to promote balance.

Divisions/Conferences are drawn using the same criteria as states (tradition and geography).

There are better ways.

Range voting

Make the unit smaller and the object being measured becomes...larger...

The countries of the world, sports leagues should be drawn using star maps (so many potential problems). Probably the best example of what I think should exist in government "alignment," inherent borders. So, which "alignments" are least susceptible to change? A stable constant daily shift (constellation boundaries), the threat of disaster as a risk to the healths of the people (geographical boundary) - versus the "traditional boundaries" which are susceptible to personal interpretation?

Time is the best and only possible metric that can be used for statistics. All metrics are just interpretations of time.

compliant to Condorcet (who lost to whom? e.g. NFL 2012 season, "circle of losses"):

Condorcet loser criterion


two-round system


instant-runoff voting


contingent vote


borda count

Schulze method

ranked pairs

Kemeny-Young method


non-compliant to Condorcet (not based on the "matchup")

plurality voting (what we got now)

supplementary voting

Sri Lanka contingency voting

approval voting

range voting (best voting system available)


Bucklin voting

minimax Condorcet

This is the idea: two teams can play each other and a "champion" can be announced. BUT, in a LEAGUE (3 or more teams), all decisions made that lead to a metric being used to decide the best 8, best 2, or best team are all based on mathematical assumptions (Games Back, Winning Percentage, Points, BCS, etc...).

To eliminate travel costs, I say we just simulate the seasons on PlayStation!


I think this is probably where pro sports will end up.

On the whole NHLPA argument that seems to be taking place, I remember a few years ago when the NHLPA successfully got "Hits" to be counted by game scorekeepers during games after a couple years when the NHL decided not to keep counting hits. NHLPA said that any quantifiable stat can help players in the contract negotiation process. I think Shorthanded Goals are a real " you!" to the referees' text interpretation ability (Constitution) and by default, the league, based on this idea, the New Jersey Devils lead the league in "calls overturned" (the most "rebel" team in the league/the most "authentic" team in the league right now - conversely, the team that scores the most Powerplay Goals are basically government-handout baby booboos).

How well can a fan/constituent know his player/candidate? I like the idea that time is the only real metric that we ever use (news/the Internet is heading toward a News Feed format in which everything happens "in time," what is the advantage of this "re-brand?") - hey it's the only thing we got in the fourth dimension WTF!!!

So, do you think "States" are a good/bad thing? I mean, States seize power from the Feds, but the counties don't seize from the States, cities don't seize from the counties...neighborhoods...

If you're for small government, you gotta be against the State when it comes to the county, against the county when it comes to the city, etc...down to "your house" ("your house being located within the district" being the only claim to representation that each of the governments have to your vote).

Are you willing to give up the Constitution to not have the Second Amendment? Is there even a sentence for what I am trying to say?

I will answer all of your questions. I don't care.

And who will decide the constellation boundaries? "Well we don't need those...we'll just use the stars!"

The theory is that the capital city is the only "city" actually under the control of the current government. Get rid of the boundaries and just go by the capital cities, each town will just have to choose to whom they would pay taxes....

[Still MIGHTY]

...aaaaaand you're back.