Charlotte Hornets?

[TruColor]

A really minor gripe, but the Hornets were never named the "Oklahoma City Hornets", they were officially the New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets.

[IceCap]

I also don't get the appeal behind the Hornets name and identity.

Yeah, but they never accomplished anything. It's like if Atlanta got another NHL team and they desperate fought for the rights to the Atlanta Thrashers' identity and records.

I think it's because the Hornets symbolize the city of Charlotte becoming a major league city. The team put the city on the map and even if they didn't win big they still accomplished a lot and were a big part of the NBA at that time. This was before the NFL's Panthers. Their merchandise was a huge seller in the 90's. It's a huge seller in throwback merchandise. It's not analogous to the Thrashers because Atlanta never latched onto the team the way Charlotte latched onto the Hornets and fans outside of the city never took to the Thrashers the way fans outside of Charlotte took to the Hornets. There is something to this. They were a cultural phenomenon that the Thrashers never were. The Thrashers don't have grantland articles about their starter jackets http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charlotte-hornets-starter-jackets-an-appreciation/. for instance.

I understand that, but it's just sort of...lost on me I guess. I'm no stranger to nostalgic appreciation of things that objectively might not have been very good, but I don't see how Starter jackets are enough of a reason to dick around with official history.

As for why the Hornets identity is better than the Bobcats. That's not even hard. The Bobcats are named the Bobcats because Bob Johnson was their original owner. It was a name fueled by one man's ego. A man who wasn't even the owner for very long. The logo was amateurish and the colors were too similar to a more established team called the New York Knicks. Virtually any identity is better than the generic college garbage that was the Charlotte Bobcats identity. That the Hornets is replacing it is even better.

See, I never hated the Bobcats' identity. Yeah, they were named after Bob Johnson but it was a better option then "Flight." And North Carolina seems like the type of place bobcats would live. The name never struck me as generic either. We accept "Tigers" and "Eagles" in top flight leagues. "Bobcats" seems more specific then either. The primary logo always sucked, but I dug both alternate logos. The colour scheme was pretty neat too, especially with the original burnt orange they used.

You don't like the Charlotte Hornets identity? You got a problem with the Mighty Ducks? You weren't a child of the 90's. You're a time traveler.

I never said I didn't like the Hornets' identity! It was perfectly fine for what it was. I also don't mind the former Bobcats using the name (even if I think the new logo set is lacking a lot of the charm the original logo had). My issue is the re-writing of league history. If you're going to use an older team's name at least keep the histories separate. Like the new Winnipeg Jets did. Honour the older team and players, but don't re-write the record books.

Anyway I may not care for the Mighty Ducks but I loved that purple Raptors jersey with the giant red dinosaur on the front

No it doesn't. A british general still said they were a "Hornet's nest of rebellion". The "Hornet's Nest" still became something of a civic nickname. That they didn't change the city's name doesn't mean that isn't true. What about the history of minor league baseball use?

I'm not denying the phrase was used to describe the city. I'm just saying it's silly to play up the Revolutionary War theme of the Hornets name when the city's named after the wife of the guy the war was being waged against. It's a bit of a disconnect. The "we're all just nostalgic for the 90s" explanation is better anyway. It's not like the original Hugo was wearing a tri-corner hat.

[jakepled]

The NBA is simply doing what they should've done in '02.

They're simply saying when New Orleans relocated they became an entirely new franchise. The old team stays behind.

This is really making people upset.

Good.

Do you know why it's getting people upset? It's because this whole thing is an exercise in massive delusional group think. It's an entire fanbase wilfully ignoring reality. It's bad enough that the actual history of the game is being tampered with. It's made worse by a large group of people collectively closing their eyes and humming really loud, hoping if they do it hard enough history will somehow contort itself into their desired shape.

I don't care about the team reusing the Hornets name, jake. I care about the integrity of the past. Which as been violated so an entire fanbase can play make-believe.

So then the Clippers, who used to be the Celtics until 1978, have 13 NBA titles in their illustrious history, right?

Nah. The franchises and organizations stayed intact even if the personnel changed. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Charlotte is the largest city in NC....

The largest city in a state is called the Queen City....

Derp

I think you missed the point entirely.

Besides, Charlotte's called "Queen City" because it's named after Queen Charlotte, wife of King George III. The guy the American revolutionaries rebelled against. So your "the name Hornets has Revolutionary War roots!" argument kind of falls flat.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

1-

Mecklenburg was the very first government body in all of America to declare independence from the Crown of England. Upon their declaration, Lord Cornwallis invaded in an attempt to take over the area. After being defeated by the Continental Army and forced to retreat, he called Mecklenburg "a hornet's nest of rebellion." At the time Charlotte was a very small and unimportant town. It is located in Mecklenburg Co.

2-

The Mecklenburg Co flag contains a hornets nest, as homage to local ancestors who were named such in fighting for independence.

[IceCap]

An angry Canadian upset at this history move then says he doesn't understand the big deal with the Hornets moniker...

I'm not angry

Charlotte Hornets were IT in the 90s. Their purple & teal bug was the hottest selling gear in the country. And the fans were the most passionate in the country.

I lived the 90s. There were plenty of things that were huge then that don't need to be brought back.

No city loved their team like Charlotte did.

Yeah, Canadiens fans in Montreal and Packers fans in Green Bay might disagree.

[rams80]

I find it cute that people think Michael Jordan knows how to build a winning basketball team. What is the evidence of this again?

[jakepled]

An angry Canadian upset at this history move then says he doesn't understand the big deal with the Hornets moniker...

I'm not angry

Charlotte Hornets were IT in the 90s. Their purple & teal bug was the hottest selling gear in the country. And the fans were the most passionate in the country.

I lived the 90s. There were plenty of things that were huge then that don't need to be brought back.

No city loved their team like Charlotte did.

Yeah, Canadiens fans in Montreal and Packers fans in Green Bay might disagree.

Yeah, and they would be uniformed.

Charlotte was just as loyal and passionate add those cities are about their team.

[IceCap]

Mecklenburg was the very first government body in all of America to declare independence from the Crown of England. Upon their declaration, Lord Cornwallis invaded in an attempt to take over the area. After being defeated by the Continental Army and forced to retreat, he called Mecklenburg "a hornet's nest of rebellion." At the time Charlotte was a very small and unimportant town. It is located in Mecklenburg Co.

Rhode Island's state government was the first government to declare independence form the Kingdom of Great Britain. Mecklenburg County claims they declared independence a year prior, but this claim has yet to be verified. History deals in varifiable facts. Not local rumour.

So kid, as you can see...

You have no clue what you're talking about.

...I do.

Anyway I know the story about the hornet's nest and what Cornwallis said. I'm just saying your argument playing up the Revolutionary War is silly when the city is named after Queen of Great Britain.

An angry Canadian upset at this history move then says he doesn't understand the big deal with the Hornets moniker...

I'm not angry

Charlotte Hornets were IT in the 90s. Their purple & teal bug was the hottest selling gear in the country. And the fans were the most passionate in the country.

I lived the 90s. There were plenty of things that were huge then that don't need to be brought back.

No city loved their team like Charlotte did.

Yeah, Canadiens fans in Montreal and Packers fans in Green Bay might disagree.

Yeah, and they would be uniformed.

Charlotte was just as loyal and passionate add those cities are about their team.

Everyone thinks their city is special. Most people are wrong. I'm not saying Charlotte fans weren't passionate. I'm just saying your claim that they were the most passionate ever is ridiculous.

[jakepled]

I find it cute that people think Michael Jordan knows how to build a winning basketball team. What is the evidence of this again?

He hired Rich Cho as GM and gave him 100% control of the roster. He stepped back and has no say in personnel decisions

Rich Cho helped build Portland & Oklahoma City. Those two teams are doing pretty good.

When Jordan bought Charlotte they were the laughing stock of pro sports. They had a horrible roster filled with old guys who weren't that good but had large contracts. He traded them away and stock piled draft picks. The team just went 44-38 and they have a good nucleus of young players along with the best offensive Center in basketball, a ton of cap space, & multiple draft picks.

[rams80]

You have no clue what you're talking about.

1-

Mecklenburg was the very first government body in all of America to declare independence from the Crown of England. Upon their declaration, Lord Cornwallis invaded in an attempt to take over the area. After being defeated by the Continental Army and forced to retreat, he called Mecklenburg "a hornet's nest of rebellion." At the time Charlotte was a very small and unimportant town. It is located in Mecklenburg Co.

2-

The Mecklenburg Co flag contains a hornets nest, as homage to local ancestors who were named such in fighting for independence.

There is no primary source reference to the Mecklenburg Declaration of Independence. The closest you get is in 1819. Also, the encounter that prompted the quote was in 1780-4 years after the Declaration of Independence and 5 years after the purported MecDec. Lord Cornwallis must have gotten lost or something.

[rams80]

I find it cute that people think Michael Jordan knows how to build a winning basketball team. What is the evidence of this again?

He hired Rich Cho as GM and gave him 100% control of the roster. He stepped back and has no say in personnel decisions

Rich Cho helped build Portland & Oklahoma City. Those two teams are doing pretty good.

When Jordan bought Charlotte they were the laughing stock of pro sports. They had a horrible roster filled with old guys who weren't that good but had large contracts. He traded them away and stock piled draft picks. The team just went 44-38 and they have a good nucleus of young players along with the best offensive Center in basketball, a ton of cap space, & multiple draft picks.

And they got destroyed by the Heat for their troubles. Again. We're dealing with the observable past and the observable past says that MJ kind of sucks at building a winning basketball organization. Also, Cho didn't have a whole lot to do with Portland's current run.

[jakepled]

I find it cute that people think Michael Jordan knows how to build a winning basketball team. What is the evidence of this again?

He hired Rich Cho as GM and gave him 100% control of the roster. He stepped back and has no say in personnel decisionsRich Cho helped build Portland & Oklahoma City. Those two teams are doing pretty good.When Jordan bought Charlotte they were the laughing stock of pro sports. They had a horrible roster filled with old guys who weren't that good but had large contracts. He traded them away and stock piled draft picks. The team just went 44-38 and they have a good nucleus of young players along with the best offensive Center in basketball, a ton of cap space, & multiple draft picks.

And they got destroyed by the Heat for their troubles. Again. We're dealing with the observable past and the observable past says that MJ kind of sucks at building a winning basketball organization. Also, Cho didn't have a whole lot to do with Portland's current run.

Since when was losing by 3-5 pts "getting crushed"?

Big Al was severely injured and didn't play much. If he was healthy they would've won a game or two. They were crushing Miami in game 1 until he got hurt. He had like 16 pts in the 1st Q.

[rams80]

I find it cute that people think Michael Jordan knows how to build a winning basketball team. What is the evidence of this again?

He hired Rich Cho as GM and gave him 100% control of the roster. He stepped back and has no say in personnel decisionsRich Cho helped build Portland & Oklahoma City. Those two teams are doing pretty good.When Jordan bought Charlotte they were the laughing stock of pro sports. They had a horrible roster filled with old guys who weren't that good but had large contracts. He traded them away and stock piled draft picks. The team just went 44-38 and they have a good nucleus of young players along with the best offensive Center in basketball, a ton of cap space, & multiple draft picks.

And they got destroyed by the Heat for their troubles. Again. We're dealing with the observable past and the observable past says that MJ kind of sucks at building a winning basketball organization. Also, Cho didn't have a whole lot to do with Portland's current run.

Since when was losing by 3-5 pts "getting crushed"?

Big Al was severely injured and didn't play much. If he was healthy they would've won a game or two. They were crushing Miami in game 1 until he got hurt. He had like 16 pts in the 1st Q.

And if George Shinn wasn't a tool the Hornets...would probably have become Timberwolves East or something.

[IceCap]

Look kid, you're obviously passionate about all things Charlotte Hornets, so let me clarify a few things...

1) There's no proof that Mecklenburg County drafted the first declaration of independence in America. The claim that they did is a local legend that actual historians have been unable to verify. This has little to do with the Hornets, but I like to clear up historical misunderstandings.

2) I don't have a problem with the Bobcats changing their name to the Hornets or using the Hornets' colours. I have a problem with the re-writing of the record books. It's historical revisionism and it's intellectually dishonest. They could be the new Charlotte Hornets without fictionalizing the historical record.

3) I'm sure the original Charlotte Hornets had a lot of passionate fans. It's just silly to claim they were the most passionate ever. Making outrageous statements like that is a good way to get people to ignore your arguments.

[Derek94]

For the 99% of us who have no issue with the shuffling of history the end result is simple:

The Charlotte Hornets history is from 1988 through now, with a two year hiatus.

The New Orleans Pelicans have existed from 2002.

And as a earlier poster wrote, Houston ShOuld acquire the Oilers identity so a former fan like myself can follow pro football again.

[BlackBolt3]

Wow, I never realized how deep this board is with people from North Carolina.

Here's my disposition on the subject if you didn't pick it up earlier: I'm in the weird position of a fan of the team, I think with historical based logic, but also wanted the original Hornets history to be associated with the team. I would have preferred that the histories stay the same, but the Pelicans allow the Hornets to recognize the city's basketball history.

Cappy, me and you go back to the Panther-Charger Alliance in the Playoffs. I respectfully say, while keeping your background in mind, to kinda chill out and focus on the big news, the reveal of the unis and court in a month. Besides, that's what we are here for right?

[Sport]

Here's my final stance:

- Charlotte shouldn't have lost their team in the first place.

- The New Orleans Hornets should've rebranded in 2002 when they first moved

- The Charlotte Bobcats was a garbage identity that should have never been approved by NBA properties. Bobcats is a collegiate sounding nickname that was only chosen because an egotistical owner wanted to name the team after himself. My alma mater is the Bobcats as are many other colleges. We were all named generations ago when naming conventions were different. It's not a nickname befitting a professional team that started in 2004. Yes it's better than "Flight", but you know what else is better than Flight? Hornets. There's no reason to hang onto it and nobody in Charlotte has any connection or love for the Bobcats name. At least not the way they have love for the Hornets. I'm really happy it's dead and in the ground.

- The Charlotte Hornets identity was one of the best in sports and when it became available the organization and the NBA absolutely did the right thing by allowing the franchise to take it. They're going to sell a ton of merch.

- the Hornets moniker is cool BECAUSE of the revolutionary war ties, but also because it has the word NETS in it. Even if none of that were true Hornets is a unique name in sports and the hornet is a cool mascot.

- Purple and teal was a unique and visually pleasing color combination in 1988 and the same is true today.

- I don't like the new logos. I think they're too sharp and striking. I wanted an updated version of the whimsical and playful logo of the past. Hopefully the new uniforms don't miss the mark either, but these are the people that approved this trash so I'm not too optimistic.

- rewriting NBA history to pretend like this franchise took a hiatus from 2002 to 2004, played ten years as the Bobcats, and then went back to their first nickname is DUMB.

[rams80]

For the 99% of us who have no issue with the shuffling of history the end result is simple:

The Charlotte Hornets history is from 1988 through now, with a two year hiatus.

The New Orleans Pelicans have existed from 2002.

And as a earlier poster wrote, Houston ShOuld acquire the Oilers identity so a former fan like myself can follow pro football again.

Except the Texans have forged their own identity now. Small problem, that...

[IceCap]

For the 99% of us who have no issue with the shuffling of history the end result is simple:

The Charlotte Hornets history is from 1988 through now, with a two year hiatus.

The New Orleans Pelicans have existed from 2002.

Well the eight years of New Orleans Hornets basketball kind of screws with the simplicity of that, doesn't it? And the first sentence just floors me. "Shuffling of history" isn't something anyone should be ok with.

I think with historical based logic, but also wanted the original Hornets history to be associated with the team.

That's the thing. They could have been the Hornets and honoured the old team without messing with the record books. At that point it goes from "respecting the city's basketball lineage" to, well, lying.

Cappy, me and you go back to the Panther-Charger Alliance in the Playoffs. I respectfully say, while keeping your background in mind, to kinda chill out and focus on the big news, the reveal of the unis and court in a month. Besides, that's what we are here for right?

It's a much appreciated sentiment, and thank you for providing local insight that didn't include "Charlotte Hornets fans are the best fans ever!" nonsense. Anyway the big thing that bugs me (pardon the unintentional pun) is the re-writing of the record book. I'd be fine with this name change if the original Hornets' records were kept with the New Orleans franchise.

Anyway I'm curious to see what the NBA and Adidas came up with uniform-wise.

[guest23]

If they were the most passionate fans couldn't they have forced Stern to force Shinn out and leave the team be? Why allow him to move the franchise?

[Xist2inspire]

I'm wondering if they're going to bring the pinstripes back. I'd like to see them return, but at the same time would like to see something new, like a honeycomb side panel pattern.