Braves Join Falcons in Abandoning Perfectly Good Facility

[CubsFanBudMan]

The Cardinals, Braves, etc., are not alone with the empty development promises. The Cubs were supposed to build a "traingle building" as part of the 2006 bleacher reconstruction. Never happened.

Also, the Cubs should move to Rosemont. (Sorry, admiral. I had to.)

[buzzcut]

The Cardinals, Braves, etc., are not alone with the empty development promises. The Cubs were supposed to build a "traingle building" as part of the 2006 bleacher reconstruction. Never happened.

Also, the Cubs should move to Rosemont. (Sorry, admiral. I had to.)

What is it with you homers who think it's Rosemont or bust for the Cubs? You realize that the Cubs would lose their identity and fanbase, the instant they announce their desire to move to the exurbs, don't you?

[Gothamite]

Whether you want to believe the map's ticket-purchasing demographics are true or not (and knowing what I know about the Hawks and Thrashers, that map isn't inaccurate), the majority of the consistent ticket-buyers are closer to the proposed site than they are to Turner Field.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the map the Braves released shows the homes of all ticket buyers from last season. "Consistent ticket-buyers" is something totally different.

[CubsFanBudMan]

The Cardinals, Braves, etc., are not alone with the empty development promises. The Cubs were supposed to build a "traingle building" as part of the 2006 bleacher reconstruction. Never happened.

Also, the Cubs should move to Rosemont. (Sorry, admiral. I had to.)

What is it with you homers who think it's Rosemont or bust for the Cubs? You realize that the Cubs would lose their identity and fanbase, the instant they announce their desire to move to the exurbs, don't you?

It was tongue-in-cheek. However, they would not lose their identity or fanbase if they did move. And if they did, is that a bad thing? What is their identity? Hint: It's not a W flag.

The Cubs screwed up when they didn't buy up the rooftops, and again when they agreed to a deal that gave them only 17% of the revenue from companies living off them. The minute the first bleacher system replaced the lawn chairs, a lawsuit should have been filed. They have all the leverage and refuse to use it. I view a move as placing winning as the top priority. Preserving tradition is admirable, but overrated in the Cubs' case.

I could take or leave a move, quite honestly. I enjoy Wrigley and have many memories there, but it's going to be rebuilt one way or another. The bleacher "renovation" I referenced was a reconstruction, and so will the grandstand portion. You'll have the wall, the ivy, the manual scoreboard, the marquee and a lot of new signs and jumbotron space (i.e. ads). But I'm sure they'll promise to use as many existing bricks as possible to make the sentimental feel better.

Anyway, how about those Braves, huh? Those guys are crazy.

[The_Admiral]

If your reaction to them just so much as expressing interest in that mobbed-up asscrack of expressways was anything less than "you mean that mobbed-up asscrack of expressways?", turn your keys in.

[illwauk]

Sweet truck bypass, I guess, but I'm gonna go ahead and call this a future boondoggle.

Havne't checked this thread in awhile. Wouldn't the fact that this is even being proposed prove that freeway systems are boken, or at least outmodded? If adding more lanes and/or roads were all it took, places like Atlanta, Chicago, and LA should all be a commuter's paradise.

[Nico]

I live in Cobb County and I've heard about the new stadium is about 7 miles from where I live now. Cobb County is trying to promote sports( Kennesaw State Owls Football, New Braves Stadium). All I know is taxes are gonna go through the roof to pay for the new stadium. Turner Field is fine. This is totally unnecessary.

[BlueSky]

Meant to post an update...unsurprisingly (the money always wins) the Cobb County Commission recently voted in favor of the move.

[HedleyLamarr]

After going to the Music City Bowl in Nashville yesterday and Sunday's Panthers-Falcons game in the Georgia Dome, I'm convinced that the majority of folks that want an open-air stadium or cold-weather Super Bowl venues are those that don't actually go to the games (at least when the cooler weather arrives).

Obviously, the weather was perfect inside the Dome. The tailgating weather was a little chilly (mainly because it had just rained, and there was still some mist and a bit of wind making it feel colder than it was), but very tolerable.

The Music City Bowl, however....it wasn't frigid, but there was just enough of a breeze to make it the annoying kind of cold. We stayed for the entire game, but it did get to the point where many were wanting the refs and TV to get the game moving along a bit quicker. Since we were one of the few that were quasi-neutral fans, we weren't as into the game as we would have been if Georgia were playing. (It's hard to root against Georgia Tech when they annually and routinely shoot themselves in the foot...case in point, the fake punt where the punter trips over his own feet and falls short of the first down. Bless their hearts.)

[CubsFanBudMan]

Probably true. Same people who always had it snow in Super Tecmo Bowl.

[Gothamite]

After going to the Music City Bowl in Nashville yesterday and Sunday's Panthers-Falcons game in the Georgia Dome, I'm convinced that the majority of folks that want an open-air stadium or cold-weather Super Bowl venues are those that don't actually go to the games (at least when the cooler weather arrives).

No, actually. Quite the opposite, in my experience.

[BlueSky]

After going to the Music City Bowl in Nashville yesterday and Sunday's Panthers-Falcons game in the Georgia Dome, I'm convinced that the majority of folks that want an open-air stadium or cold-weather Super Bowl venues are those that don't actually go to the games (at least when the cooler weather arrives).

Obviously, the weather was perfect inside the Dome. The tailgating weather was a little chilly (mainly because it had just rained, and there was still some mist and a bit of wind making it feel colder than it was), but very tolerable.

The Music City Bowl, however....it wasn't frigid, but there was just enough of a breeze to make it the annoying kind of cold. We stayed for the entire game, but it did get to the point where many were wanting the refs and TV to get the game moving along a bit quicker. Since we were one of the few that were quasi-neutral fans, we weren't as into the game as we would have been if Georgia were playing. (It's hard to root against Georgia Tech when they annually and routinely shoot themselves in the foot...case in point, the fake punt where the punter trips over his own feet and falls short of the first down. Bless their hearts.)

Bingo. This is what people fail to consider in this equation. Hey, I always thought Minnesota lost a huge competitive advantage when they went indoors but Bud Grant's Purple People Eaters played back in the day when there were no (or few) TV timeouts. It grinds my gears when I hear the length of games cited as a reason to not do this or that (more replay for example). The league and networks are the ones controlling the length of the games! Eliminate some commercial timeouts and that'll shorten things up in a hurry. But that will never happen because they'd rather have the revenue than a shorter game.

It's bad enough in the comfort of your own home - which is why I always DVR games and sit down to watch around halftime - but in a freezing stadium in precipitation? No thanks.

I have a DVD of a Saints-Bears game broadcast from 1977. What jumped out at me when I watched it again was the lack of TV timeouts. The game basically ran like a TV show with commercials around the same time they would come in a sitcom or whatever. There weren't commercials at every change of possession or after every kickoff and so on. Ironically, the announcers had to fill some dead time (after punts etc.) where commercials would have fit in.

In any case, television has changed the game (literally) and sadly, I think that's now an argument against open-air venues.

[Gothamite]

I think it's more an argument against going to games at all.

The product is just bad for those actually at the venue. It's tailored to patrons watching at home, at the expense of persons attending.

[The_Admiral]

"Tonight, on a very special episode of Football..."

[gmurray]

I haven't yet listened to their video explanation, but this baffles me.

First off, I don't understand why sports teams like being out in the suburbs. I kind of get it for football where some teams fan bases are so accustomed to tailgating that they need wide swathes of single level parking lots. And I understand in other places it just happens because it happens. But why do it if you can avoid it? Maybe I just feel that way since the St. Louis teams have always been in the city and in my era of watching, always been downtown. (The Blues used to play in a different part of the city, but they moved downtown when I was 6 or 7.) It just seems right to have teams downtown, or at least in a city neighborhood.

Secondly, Turner field isn't just adequate, it's nice! When I lived in Auburn, AL in 2012, I made it out to a couple of games. I'm not sure what the complaints would be. Nice visually on the inside and outside. Nice amenities. Plenty of space. Good views. I don't get it.

Admittedly, it doesn't seem to be in the best part of downtown, but those things are cyclical, and having an anchor tenant tends to help stabilize or bring things back.

I agree with both points. Regarding downtown vs. suburbs, I've been to both and I view the downtown experience as far superior...particularly when there is a nice view from the seats (e.g., Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Minnesota). In MLB, the suburban trend of the 50s through 80s was/is seemingly over. So this comes as a bit of a surprise. I think part of the issue in Atlanta is that population bases in sunbelt cities that have been growing so much over recent decades perceive (and maybe accurately so) difficulty in getting downtown. You can't pave your way out of congestion and Atlanta is perhaps the sprawinglingest metro in the US. Their fan base may (and I have no data to back this up) be one of the least-densely populated in MLB. And those super-wide freeways, which flowed so well for a decade are just as congested as they were before they were "improved."

The other thing, and I'll use an anecdote to illustrate my point, is the perception that a parking lot is a good thing. I recall being with a group of the "husbands" of my wife's co-workers...talking sports, and I was bellyaching about the Metrodome and someone said "yeah, and there is no parking lot." I let it go, but I strongly believe that it is MUCH easier to get out of town with parking dispersed throughout lots and ramps (and with a significant percentage of people using transit and not contributing to the congestion) than it is to get out of the two access points at a place like Miller Park. And I'd guess the average walk is not even that much longer. Nevertheless, people tend to perceive a parking lot as equating to convenience. I find them quite inconvenient.

As for your second point, I've been to Turner once. And I agree. There is nothing wrong with it. It's pretty much got the parking they'll have in the suburbs, and it pretty much has what you'd want out of a ballpark.

Super-wide freeways that flowed so well??!! Where? Not in Atlanta. I've been here for 30 years, and traffic has sucked the entire time. I don't mean bad, it is terrible, and is noticeably worse about every 10-12 months.

The spot they are talking about, NW of 75/285 intersection, is horrendous, as are the highways getting there. That's just normal everyday traffic, no stadium, no additional who knows how many cars.

Mass transit is the only option that makes any sense, especially in a city that already has rotten traffic, and Atlanta, and especially Cobb county, are really, really mass-transit phobic.

I don't care a bit about going to the games to support a brand name I couldn't care less about, but this will make going anywhere, like, oh, home from work, even worse than it already is.

The Braves get to develop a decent size chunk of land around the new stadium. Translation: dollars. They can't do that where they are now.

Look at that map- they aren't aiming at being in a central location based on the density of their fans- if they were, they'd be moving due N, not NW.

I certainly hope the costs that will be passed on to Cobb county residents don't kick in until after the stadium is built- I'll have moved by then. In the meantime, I can't wait to see a traffic study on this- preferably not done by the Braves.

[gmurray]

@ the admiral, I meant the perception is that decline follows mass transit extensions so can we wait a few years before using the Chicago Green Line example to refute? It's also apples and oranges to compare Atlanta or any other sprawl city with little mass transit presence to places where the extensions are on well-established systems that are commonly used. That obviously makes more sense than spending billions to expand MARTA.

Streetcar prompts plan for crossroads apartments.

Cities Turn to Streetcars to Spur Economic Development

Once Nearly Extinct, Streetcar Gets New Life in US

More than a year from operation, Kansas City's streetcar is already driving investment downtown.

There seems to be an awful lot of urban planners and investors in an awful lot of different cities getting it wrong if rail transit does indeed beget crime and blight. Either Atlanta's north burbs are full of bigots who don't want to be around the poor and/or minorities, or it's a joke of a metro area that's laughably out of step with the rest of Urban America.

Frankly, I could go with either one.

Ooooh, you get a two-for-one on this one. It is both, and not to any small degree on either one.

[hbgoo1975]

I don't understand. Why would the Braves move out of Turner Field when they have only been there 15 years. How many more will it be when they finally move to Cobb County?

[WSU151]

I don't understand. Why would the Braves move out of Turner Field when they have only been there 15 years. How many more will it be when they finally move to Cobb County?

Read the thread. It'll answer all of your questions.

[HedleyLamarr]

Super-wide freeways that flowed so well??!! Where? Not in Atlanta. I've been here for 30 years, and traffic has sucked the entire time. I don't mean bad, it is terrible, and is noticeably worse about every 10-12 months.

The spot they are talking about, NW of 75/285 intersection, is horrendous, as are the highways getting there. That's just normal everyday traffic, no stadium, no additional who knows how many cars.

Mass transit is the only option that makes any sense, especially in a city that already has rotten traffic, and Atlanta, and especially Cobb county, are really, really mass-transit phobic.

I don't care a bit about going to the games to support a brand name I couldn't care less about, but this will make going anywhere, like, oh, home from work, even worse than it already is.

The Braves get to develop a decent size chunk of land around the new stadium. Translation: dollars. They can't do that where they are now.

Look at that map- they aren't aiming at being in a central location based on the density of their fans- if they were, they'd be moving due N, not NW.

I certainly hope the costs that will be passed on to Cobb county residents don't kick in until after the stadium is built- I'll have moved by then. In the meantime, I can't wait to see a traffic study on this- preferably not done by the Braves.

Atlanta was banking on the Braves "being downtown" as their bluff, and the Braves called their bluff. Simple as that.

Think about it. The city of Atlanta has had nearly 50 years to improve mass transit (specifically, build a train station near the ballpark and construct transit lines outside the perimeter to where most of the sports teams' fans actually live) and to make going to Fulton County Stadium/Turner Field a destination spot. There's one bar/restaurant tucked away on the backside of the stadium (on the opposite side of where a vast majority of the parking spots are) and a rotting putt-putt golf place that's been closed for years. That's it.

Sure, it's also about money. The city owns Turner Field, and the city enjoys having that cash flow. Just as the city enjoys the cash flow from owning Philips Arena (and the state enjoys from owning the Georgia Dome).

[dbadefense1990]

I don't understand. Why would the Braves move out of Turner Field when they have only been there 15 years. How many more will it be when they finally move to Cobb County?

Have you been living under a rock this whole time?