NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[GDAWG]

Watching the Saints right now and I am reminded of the fact that they came very close to moving after Hurricane Katrina.  I read where a lot of people credit Drew Brees for saving the Saints and it would have been one of those crazy "what-if" scenarios: What would have happened had Drew Brees never signed? 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

5 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

Watching the Saints right now and I am reminded of the fact that they came very close to moving after Hurricane Katrina.  I read where a lot of people credit Drew Brees for saving the Saints and it would have been one of those crazy "what-if" scenarios: What would have happened had Drew Brees never signed?  

 

San Antonio would have an NFL team.

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

So... they're the Tampa Bay Rays of football.

 

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

That's obviously hyperbole,

Nah, ya think? They’re drawing 71,000 to a stadium that seats 75,000 and they’re ahead of 21 teams in the attendance standings. And you want to compare them to the Rays? 

 

There’s hyperbole and then there’s nuking your own point with insane statements. 

 

I have no idea why “I don’t think anyone in LA likes the Rams” is your hill to die on. Is this one of those “east coast/west coast” things I’ve heard so much about? 

 

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Also - I never said "the Lakers of the NFL", though I understand the confusion due to the poor wording.  I said the Lakers of "football in LA", meaning their relationship to the Chargers.  While I get that the Chargers are insignificant and unwanted, I disagree with the comparison because the Rams don't seem to have anywhere near the loyal and devotion from their fanbase as the Lakers.  

The Lakers/Clippers comparison has always been made in comparison between the Rams and the Chargers, and only in that context. 

[dfwabel]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

So... they're the Tampa Bay Rays of football. 

 

That's obviously hyperbole, but an 8-0 exciting team in a market that hasn't had a great (or, well, any) NFL team for >20 seasons should be able to sell 75K tickets despite any logistical hurdles.  It's one out of every 14 days.

 

What will the excuse be in the new stadium?

 

My point isn't that they're failing (they're not), or that it was a mistake to move back (it wasn't), just that some on here act like LA had been pining for this for decades, and they're beloved and have rock solid roots now, when that's just not the reality.

 

Also - I never said "the Lakers of the NFL", though I understand the confusion due to the poor wording.  I said the Lakers of "football in LA", meaning their relationship to the Chargers.  While I get that the Chargers are insignificant and unwanted, I disagree with the comparison because the Rams don't seem to have anywhere near the loyal and devotion from their fanbase as the Lakers.  

I wouldn't sat that, but the Coliseum is still big and worth 72k.

 

 

[BBTV]

32 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

They’re drawing 71,000 to a stadium that seats 75,000

 

Yeah... that's good?  In a market of what - over 13M people?  I get that it's not proportional, and a market of 13M isn't expected to draw 4x the number of a market of 3M, but I'm not sure how many other NFL cities would have face value tix available for a 8-0 (now 8-1) team, especially going into marquee matchups.  75K is not hard to fill in the NFL.  And as stated, a sizeable (but hard to quantify) number of those 71K are visiting fans.  Even given the "well, the location isn't ideal, the traffic is bad, etc" argument, you're telling me there's not 75,000 people out of 13 million that want to see a fantastic team?

 

 

32 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Is this one of those “east coast/west coast” things I’ve heard so much about? 

 

I"m not sure what that is.  BIG and 2Pac both still DEAD.

 

EDIT: and this isn't the hill I'm going to die on.  I announced what that was a few weeks ago... ...and now I can't remember.

[IceCap]

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Yeah... that's good?

Considering this?

 

20 hours ago, Gothamite said:

Yes, but that is a very misleading stat, since #2 and #11 are separated by just a few thousand fans per game.

 

Yes. 

 

4 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

EDIT: and this isn't the hill I'm going to die on. 

Then maybe stop comparing a NFL team that leads 21 other NFL teams in terms of attendance to the G-ddamn Rays. It’s ridiculous, and I’m unsure why trying to argue that no one likes the Rams is so important to you. 

 

[BBTV]

Just now, Ice_Cap said:

Yes. 

 

Not when there's unsold seats there.  

 

Six of the 10 ahead of them are at 100% capacity.  Two are putrid teams (NYY/NYJ) that would almost certainly be at 100% if 8-0.  Either way, I don't blame people for not coming out for bad teams.

 

Dallas's stadium is too big, and for all everyone says, isn't as great as it's made out to be when it comes to team support (half their games sound like road games - yes, I know, sell tix to make $$$, but that just doesn't happen in lots of other places.)

 

I don't know what's going on in GB.  According to ESPN they're at 96%.  I thought they were sold out before the seasons ever started.  

 

So, there's literally ONE - maybe two (I'm not sure if ATL is at capacity or not, since numbers aren't always the same everywhere) that are in similar boats as the Rams - except that the Rams are 8-0, and the market just got NFL football back!

[IceCap]

5 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Not when there's unsold seats there.  

 

Six of the 10 ahead of them are at 100% capacity.  Two are putrid teams (NYY/NYJ) that would almost certainly be at 100% if 8-0.  Either way, I don't blame people for not coming out for bad teams.

 

Dallas's stadium is too big, and for all everyone says, isn't as great as it's made out to be when it comes to team support (half their games sound like road games - yes, I know, sell tix to make $$$, but that just doesn't happen in lots of other places.)

 

I don't know what's going on in GB.  According to ESPN they're at 96%.  I thought they were sold out before the seasons ever started.  

 

So, there's literally ONE - maybe two (I'm not sure if ATL is at capacity or not, since numbers aren't always the same everywhere) that are in similar boats as the Rams - except that the Rams are 8-0, and the market just got NFL football back!

Green Bay’s only at 96%? Get those unloved bums out town before it’s too late! 

 

Look dude, again. I’m not sure why you’ve decided to make this your obsession, but I think the LA Rams will do just fine considering they’re only a few thousand short of the #2 slot. 

 

Wait. Is this just you warming up for the inevitable “gotta hate on the new reigning, defending Super Bowl Champions” schtick? 

[BBTV]

8 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I’m unsure why trying to argue that no one likes the Rams is so important to you. 

 

My argument isn't that no one likes the Rams - just that they aren't this beloved franchise that was welcomed back with open arms and are killing it in the market.  TBH, I can't even recall at this point what post (or collection of posts) got me started on that.    I'm tired.

[IceCap]

Just now, BringBackTheVet said:

 

My argument isn't that no one likes the Rams - just that they aren't this beloved franchise that was welcomed back with open arms and are killing it in the market.  TBH, I can't even recall at this point what post (or collection of posts) got me started on that.    I'm tired.

If it’s just you being pedantic that this *can’t* be a Lakers/Clippers thing because the Rams don’t have the passionate following the Lakers have? 

Well again, the Lakers/Clippers comparison has only ever been made in context of the Rams’ and Chargers’ respective relationships with the market. 

 

And yeah. In that context? Compared to the Chargers? The Rams are the Lakers. 

[BBTV]

6 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

 Wait. Is this just you warming up for the inevitable “gotta hate on the new reigning, defending Super Bowl Champions” schtick? 

 

I don't understand this.  Just come out and say whatever it is.  I'm not sure anyone is hating on the SBCPE. 

 

Now that you mention it, it's obvious to anyone with a brain that they're not selling out because their fans know that they can't defeat the SBCPE, so they're not even going to try.  So, if the NFC is a four-team race between the LAR, CAR, SPCPE (albeit the underdog at the moment), and NO, then you take LAR's 25% and give it to the SBCPE, giving them 50% against 25% each for CAR and NO.  Then, factor in that Carson Wentz is like superman and has Jesus on his shoulders, that gives them another 33%, so it's 83% against 25% and 25%.  The SBCPE do well in domes, so take off 3% from NO, and Cam Newton is a dope, so subtract 10 from CAR.  Now, you get the SPCPE with a 98% chance to win the NFC, and the other teams combined have only 37%.  The numbers don't lie.

[LMU]

It's not like LA was sitting around for 20 years waiting for some form of entertainment to show up.

 

The Rams (and the Chargers), besides each other, have to compete with the following for fans' disposable income in the market:

 

Dodgers

Angels

Lakers

Clippers

Kings

Ducks

LA Galaxy

LAFC

UCLA football

USC football

Non-football sports for 10 NCAA D-I universities

Sparks

 

And, mind you that housing prices in this city are so astronomically high that a dollar doesn't go as far around here.

 

Of course, this doesn't factor in that it's been so long since there has been a team here that many people hitched their wagons to other teams and that transplants brought their fandom with them when they came out here.

[GDAWG]

4 hours ago, DG_Now said:

 

San Antonio would have an NFL team.

 

Most likely.  Luckily the Saints don't have to go through that. 

[Gothamite]

10 hours ago, LMU said:

It's not like LA was sitting around for 20 years waiting for some form of entertainment to show up.

 

The Rams (and the Chargers), besides each other, have to compete with the following for fans' disposable income in the market:

 

Dodgers

Angels

Lakers

Clippers

Kings

Ducks

LA Galaxy

LAFC

UCLA football

USC football

Non-football sports for 10 NCAA D-I universities

Sparks

 

And, mind you that housing prices in this city are so astronomically high that a dollar doesn't go as far around here.

 

Of course, this doesn't factor in that it's been so long since there has been a team here that many people hitched their wagons to other teams and that transplants brought their fandom with them when they came out here.

 

That’s a mistake often made when talking about larger markets.  People look at population figures and presume that those teams must always sell out because numbers.

 

That, of course, fails to take into account the staggering competition for entertainment dollars in a major market.  Not only does a dollar not go as far, but those dollars could go so many more places.

 

To your list I’d also add the non-sport options competing for those dollars.  Los Angeles has museums that stand among the best in the world.  The Philharmonic.  A half-dozen amusement parks that are famous world-wide.  And make no mistake, all of that is their real competition.

 

Good thing there’s no theater scene in LA, or the Rams would be really screwed.  

 

Seriously, it’s hard to look at that attendance and walk away with the conclusion “people in LA don’t care about the Rams”.

[BBTV]

Maybe if everything is too expensive and there’s dozens of other options and traffic then it’s just not a great place to have an NFL team. We will see when the stadium opens if people are still apparently choosing the ballet over the Rams. As for market size not mattering, it’s more than 13 million. That’s an awful lot, no matter what other events are going on. Again, we will see when the stadium opens. I’m not saying it’s a bad situation, just not a great one. 

[Gothamite]

16 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Maybe if everything is too expensive and there’s dozens of other options and traffic then it’s just not a great place to have an NFL team.

 

You are talking about a team that’s drawing over 70,000 people to each game.

 

Which is right around the capacity of both the Coliseum and their new stadium. 

[LMU]

2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

That’s a mistake often made when talking about larger markets.  People look at population figures and presume that those teams must always sell out because numbers.

 

That, of course, fails to take into account the staggering competition for entertainment dollars in a major market.  Not only does a dollar not go as far, but those dollars could go so many more places.

 

To your list I’d also add the non-sport options competing for those dollars.  Los Angeles has museums that stand among the best in the world.  The Philharmonic.  A half-dozen amusement parks that are famous world-wide.  And make no mistake, all of that is their real competition.

 

Good thing there’s no theater scene in LA, or the Rams would be really screwed.  

 

Seriously, it’s hard to look at that attendance and walk away with the conclusion “people in LA don’t care about the Rams”.

Yeah, I didn't want to go that far into the weeds but since you bring it up, we have all these major concert/stage venues in competition:

 

*Walt Disney Concert Hall

*Pantages Theatre

*Microsoft Theater

*Hollywood Bowl

*Dolby Theatre

*Forum

*FivePoint Ampitheatre

*Greek Theatre

*Segerstrom Center for the Arts/Concert Hall

*Dorothy Chandler Pavilion

*Ahmanson Theatre

*Mark Taper Forum

*Orpheum Theatre

*Saban Theatre

*Hollywood Palladium

*Wiltern Theatre

*Numerous clubs, community theaters, college theaters, etc.

 

Then for museums we have, but not limited to:

 

*Hammer Museum of Art

*Gene Autry Museum of the American West

*USS Iowa

*The Broad

*California Science Center

*Getty Center

*Getty Villa

*Grammy Museum

*Griffith Park Observatory

*LA County Museum of Art

*Museum of Contemporary Art

*Missions San Juan Capistrano, San Gabriel, San Fernando, and San Buenaventura (not going as far as Santa Barbara for this purpose)

*Museum of Tolerance

*LA County Natural History Museum

*Page Museum/La Brea Tar Pits

*Petersen Automotive Museum

*Skirball Cultural Museum

*Under construction Academy Museum of Motion Pictures

 

And, of course, amusement parks include:

 

*Disneyland

*Disney's California Adventure

*Knott's Berry Farm

*Knott's Soak City USA

*Six Flags Magic Mountain

*Six Flags Hurricane Harbor

*Universal Studios Hollywood

*Legoland (on the way to San Diego but close enough for this purpose)

*Pacific Park (Santa Monica Pier)

*Raging Waters

*Wild Rivers (closed a few years ago, being relocated)

 

Even with all this competition when the population of the metro area per the Census Bureau is over 13 million, not including visiting fans and people making a longer drive, getting 70,000 fans a game isn't a sign of a mistake.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Just for fun, I did a search for points of interest in Jacksonville. From a mommy blog:https://temeculablogs.com/jacksonville-florida-points-of-interest/

 

Quote

St. Johns Town Center – I was ready for some shopping when I arrived in Jacksonville and this was a great outdoor shopping center that had all the most popular upscale shops like Tiffany & Co. as well as shops like Old Navy and Justice too! It was one of my favorite Jacksonville Florida points of interest I have to say.

 

That was number 1!

[Sec19Row53]

16 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I don't know what's going on in GB.  According to ESPN they're at 96%.  I thought they were sold out before the seasons ever started.  

 

The capacity at Lambeau includes a decent number of handicap accessible seats, which come with 1 or 2 accompany-seats (someone who accampanies the handicapped person). These seats are not sold far in advance, and as a result are generally not going to be filled.

 

Oh well.

[The_Admiral]

9 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Maybe if everything is too expensive and there’s dozens of other options and traffic then it’s just not a great place to have an NFL team.

 

It's not a great place, it's just good enough. It's better than St. Louis, which has less to do and was still a worse destination for football.