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Football and CTE

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2 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

This kind of implies that the other kids are participating of their own free will.  But do 7-year-olds even have free will?  It's a parent's job to protect them from dangerous choices like playing football.  Kids that age watch their NFL team play every week and then want to play themselves.  I don't think telling a kid that age "well, football has long-term consequences that could impact quality of life when you're an adult...but the choice is yours" is effectively protecting the kid from danger.  Kids don't think of the future that way.  They barely even recognize they'll ever be "super old," like 30 years old.

 

In short, a 7-year-old is under the age of consent...or at least should be.

 

We can debate whether the phrase "child abuse" applies, but I honestly don't think putting the choice on a kid ill-equipped to make that choice is a lot better than forcing them.   

 

I'm somewhat sensitized to this perhaps as when I was a kid it wasn't at all uncommon to get my ass whipped by my father's 42 inch belt wherever he happened to connect with it, or because I got my upper jaw cracked by his repeated left hooks at the age of 13.  But I think as a term "child abuse" sometimes gets tossed around more than a coin before a football game, often where I don't think it at all fits.

 

Is it ill advised of a parent to let their 7 year old play tackle football?  Perhaps.  That's an argument I can readily see either side of.  Does it qualify as child abuse to let them play though?  No.  Not even close.  Abuse is deliberate and with intent, or at the very minimum wanton neglect.  Johnny wanting to play football at 7 is a judgment call; it might be a bad one, but it's a judgment call for the parent.

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37 minutes ago, Mac the Knife said:

Johnny wanting to play football at 7 is a judgment call; it might be a bad one, but it's a judgment call for the parent.

 

It really ought not to be. 

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15 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

It really ought not to be. 

 

Okay, but that's a slippery slope argument in that at what point do you draw that line, and who are you or I to draw it?  It ranks up there with at what age can parents leave their kid home alone, or the law that states a kid has to be 8 years old or weigh 80 pounds to not require some form of booster seat while riding in a car.  It's arbitrary, as every kid is different.  I'm not saying you're wrong; I wouldn't let my kids play tackle football at all (yet I did).  I'm just wondering where that arbitrary line gets drawn.  Is it 18?  Is it 21?  Is it 14 if the kid's 6'5", weighs 300 pounds and can bench-press a Buick?

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It's not a slippery slope at all.  We set these kinds of limits all the time.  In my state, kids can't sit in the front seat until they're 12, because it's too dangerous.  Kids can't drink alcohol until 21.  It's illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone under the age of 18.  Nobody worried about the slippery slope there.

 

We as a society should take a look at the science and go from there.  The article indicates that some states already are:

 

Quote

Football is already facing a reckoning. Lawmakers in New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Illinois, and California recently proposed legislation that would prohibit tackling in their states below the ages of 12, 13, and 14.

 

I don't see anything wrong with that.

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10 hours ago, Gothamite said:

I don't see anything wrong with that (setting an age limit)

 

I would like to see Texas do that, but they probably won't. I am looking at that article I posted on the last page, and it is sad. This guy is telling eight year olds to practice full throttle and be tougher. Several families took their kids out of the program because of that letter (and they were scared of repercussions, including the guy that e-mailed Rick Reilly).

 

Heck, in that same Frisco, TX league, a coach was caught telling his eight year olds to hit someone in the face the year before.

 

Those kids are Junior High age now. If those same kids that quit football (because of that letter) are still not playing today, I wonder if they are taking abuse from other students.

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17 hours ago, Gothamite said:

It's not a slippery slope at all.  We set these kinds of limits all the time.  In my state, kids can't sit in the front seat until they're 12, because it's too dangerous.  Kids can't drink alcohol until 21.  It's illegal to sell cigarettes to anyone under the age of 18.  Nobody worried about the slippery slope there.

 

We as a society should take a look at the science and go from there.  The article indicates that some states already are:

 

 

I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

The Illinois bill died.  Arguments were a combination of "the important character values of playing football, concern trolling over not knowing how to tackle in high school (and increasing the risk to life and limb), and a lack of realization that your average JFL coach probably has more in common with John McGuirk from the Home Movies cartoon than say Vince Lombardi."

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6 hours ago, rams80 said:

The Illinois bill died. 

 

Well, damn. 

 

I have to have a little more faith in California and New York.  That's a lot of kids than can be protected from the likes of that insane Camron Miller.

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Now, is UNC Head Coach Larry Fedora a "Flat Earther" too?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/larry-fedora-the-game-of-football-is-under-attack-and-necessary-for-american-prosperity/

 

Quote

"I think [football going away or being changed] would be the decline of our country," Fedora said. "There's no doubt in my mind. I think the lessons that you learn in the game of football relay to everything that's going to happen in the rest of your life. And if we stop learning those lessons, we're going to struggle. I think in some ways we're struggling now more than we ever have. Are we ever going to be a perfect country? No. But I think the game of football has had a major impact on who we are as a country."

 

He spoke more later with video here:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article215117275.html

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On 7/13/2018 at 12:15 AM, DnBronc said:

I would like to see Texas do that, but they probably won't. I am looking at that article I posted on the last page, and it is sad. This guy is telling eight year olds to practice full throttle and be tougher.

 

Texas?  :D

 

Are you kidding?  If they could get away with it, Texan parents would take their kids out of schools at age 8 and have them focus on doing nothing but playing football in hope of making a profession of it.  Texans and football are like the French and baguettes.

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On 7/12/2018 at 1:58 PM, Mac the Knife said:

 

Okay, but that's a slippery slope argument in that at what point do you draw that line, and who are you or I to draw it?  It ranks up there with at what age can parents leave their kid home alone, or the law that states a kid has to be 8 years old or weigh 80 pounds to not require some form of booster seat while riding in a car.  It's arbitrary, as every kid is different.  I'm not saying you're wrong; I wouldn't let my kids play tackle football at all (yet I did).  I'm just wondering where that arbitrary line gets drawn.  Is it 18?  Is it 21?  Is it 14 if the kid's 6'5", weighs 300 pounds and can bench-press a Buick?

The latest research indicates age 12 is the minimum to start playing youth football, so many children can still derive the numerous benefits of playing the sport. The reality is, thousands of children have been helped by participating in youth football, even if we exclude those who went on to play in college. Single family households are a huge problem in our society, and having these coaches serve as male role models is actually quite important for these kids. Many of these children are from poor backgrounds, and heading in the wrong direction in life. 

 

Of course, we're not going to see any research proving brain damage in adults who did play youth football before age 12 because it doesn't fit the lazy narrative. Like high school, college, and pro football, tackle football is still a positive force in our society.

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Nah, baguettes are only one small slice of French culture. ;) 

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5 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

The latest research indicates age 12 is the minimum to start playing youth football, so many children can still derive the numerous benefits of playing the sport. The reality is, thousands of children have been helped by participating in youth football, even if we exclude those who went on to play in college. Single family households are a huge problem in our society, and having these coaches serve as male role models is actually quite important for these kids. Many of these children are from poor backgrounds, and heading in the wrong direction in life. 

 

Riiight. 

 

Because football is the only thing that could do that.  :rolleyes: 

 

Surely there’s something we can offer these kids that doesn’t also involve giving them brain damage?

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On 6/28/2018 at 10:11 AM, Gold Pinstripes said:

lessens playing football.

Freudian

 

Why didn't you say "football teaches people how to get knocked down and get back up again"? That's my favorite! 

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Football taught me how to run routes through the blitz of life.

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"you'll learn more about life on the football field than you will in any classroom" - My high school coach 

 

Coach, I've never tackled or been tackled by anyone since leaving high school. Also I have way fewer headaches now. Like almost none since I stopped playing football. 

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28 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

The latest research indicates age 12 is the minimum to start playing youth football, so many children can still derive the numerous benefits of playing the sport. The reality is, thousands of children have been helped by participating in youth football, even if we exclude those who went on to play in college. Single family households are a huge problem in our society, and having these coaches serve as male role models is actually quite important for these kids. Many of these children are from poor backgrounds, and heading in the wrong direction in life. 

 

Of course, we're not going to see any research proving brain damage in adults who did play youth football before age 12 because it doesn't fit the lazy narrative. Like high school, college, and pro football, tackle football is still a positive force in our society.

 

Okay, here's a thought that I'm just going to spitball out there:  why not replace youth tackle football with graduated levels of flag football?

 

You have, say, three age divisions:  8-10, 11-14, and 15-17.  For the 8-10 and 11-14 age groups, it's strictly flag football, teaching the game in a fashion that doesn't involve intentional contact and thus, mitigates injury.  Then for the 15-17 year old set, you permit them to play contact flag football, applying basic line blocking (open hands, within the body frame) techniques, the five-yard chuck rule and the like - contact, but again not contact that's likely to cause concussion or other serious injury.

 

Could not the societal, educational, values, discipline, or whatever other aspects the game is supposed to teach young people be applied without the necessity of kids crashing into one another at full speed?

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52 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

The latest research indicates age 12 is the minimum to start playing youth football, so many children can still derive the numerous benefits of playing the sport. The reality is, thousands of children have been helped by participating in youth football, even if we exclude those who went on to play in college. Single family households are a huge problem in our society, and having these coaches serve as male role models is actually quite important for these kids. Many of these children are from poor backgrounds, and heading in the wrong direction in life. 

 

Of course, we're not going to see any research proving brain damage in adults who did play youth football before age 12 because it doesn't fit the lazy narrative. Like high school, college, and pro football, tackle football is still a positive force in our society.

Ever heard of...other sports?

 

Lazy narrative.  LOL. Lazier than pinning everything on concussions and suggesting "heads up football" will solve everything?  Lazier than suggesting that football is the only way for people to get out of a bad situation?  

 

Regarding "research proving brain damage in adults who did play youth football before age 12" this doesn't exist because it would be incredibly difficult (maybe even impossible) to get.  The research community is not "skipping" trying to figure this out because they're scared of the results.  And if that's what you think, well, that's a lazy narrative.

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1 hour ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

Single family households are a huge problem in our society, and having these coaches serve as male role models is actually quite important for these kids. Many of these children are from poor backgrounds, and heading in the wrong direction in life.

 

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The town I grew up in, in the 19 hundred and 90's, didn't let kids play tackle football until they were in 3rd grade and you had to be above a certain weight. The 3rd and fourth graders played in the junior league against each other and all the teams had college names and uniforms (I played for the Gators). The 5th and 6th graders played in the senior league (I was on the Eagles and Vikings, which I loved because both have awesome helmet decals). Also the fat kids had to wear a small star decal on the back of their helmets which told the refs who was and wasn't allowed to carry the ball (this rule was ignored or skirted by most of the coaches in the league and became a matter of controversy in most of the games.) 

 

So you can imagine my surprise when last week my sister-in-law told me that her kids' private school has a full pad tackle football team for every grade including KINDERGARTEN. I was flabbergasted. 

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