VampyrRabbit Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 3 hours ago, gosioux76 said: I know it seems like this is a smoking-gun example of your point, but marketing deals vary greatly from sport to sport and country to country. T-Mobile (Deutsch Telekom, in this case) is one of three dominant mobile carriers in Germany. Bayern is that nation's biggest sports brand. Its Bayern sponsorship means that its logo is the largest and most visible thing on the most high-profile piece of sports apparel in that country. The leverage in that case belongs to the team, and T-Mobile gets the exposure it needs no matter the color of the logo. In the U.S., T-Mobile is one among a much more crowded field of competition. Its signature brand element, the one thing that helps it instantly stand out from its competitors, is its magenta color. The placement of its logo as a small patch on a shoulder isn't valuable enough for it to concede something so critical to its brand as its primary color. The return on investment wouldn't justify such a move. The leverage in this case belongs with the sponsor. To the bigger point, @jzn110is 100% right. If a brand wants its logo on a jersey badly enough, they could absolutely choose to do so in a way that matched the team's color scheme. But the companies likely to make that call are ones without the leverage in these scenarios. It would likely be a brand with a logo that's A) designed to be adaptable or B ) values the exposure so highly that it trumps any concerns about brand continuity. T-Mobile's probably not the best example in this case. That's True. But they did also change the colour of their logo when sponsoring FC Utrecht, a far more modest club in the Netherlands and also when they sponsored Rotherham United, so I could see them change the colour for the Mariners. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 15 minutes ago, VampyrRabbit said: That's True. But they did also change the colour of their logo when sponsoring FC Utrecht, a far more modest club in the Netherlands and also when they sponsored Rotherham United, so I could see them change the colour for the Mariners. No, because the Mariners play in MLB... in the U.S. Here, their magenta logo is far more prevalent and there is far more competition from other carriers which makes the need to distinguish themselves from the others more important. And, as @gosioux76 mentioned, it would merely be a sleeve patch, not fully across the chest, which makes their signature branding/color even more crucial. https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namefornamesake Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 14 minutes ago, VampyrRabbit said: That's True. But they did also change the colour of their logo when sponsoring FC Utrecht, a far more modest club in the Netherlands and also when they sponsored Rotherham United, so I could see them change the colour for the Mariners. Why are we all assuming that T-Mobile's gonna be the Mariners sponsor? For all we know, Getty Images could snatch the ad up. (Look it up) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, VampyrRabbit said: That's True. But they did also change the colour of their logo when sponsoring FC Utrecht, a far more modest club in the Netherlands and also when they sponsored Rotherham United, so I could see them change the colour for the Mariners. Deutsche Telekom is not just a big German company, but is in fact the biggest cellular provider in all of Europe. I think @gosioux76 outlined great points on why the market comparisons are totally different in Europe versus American sports. Soccer has also been doing this for decades now where the standard practices may be a bit different from one sport to another. They have a larger space to work with across the whole chest versus trying to cram their logo into a small patch. I think the best we can hope for is there are a few brands with minimalistic logos compatible with a black or white design, or can even be swapped to team colors because they are simple in nature (think the Apple logo). However, there are going to be multiple companies that have logos with multiple colors or a signature color (like Home Depot’s orange) that are part of their identity and don’t quite read the same way when presented differently. While we may not like it, I think it is the unfortunate business side of things on where this is heading. If T-Mobile gets involved in US sports sponsorship, I wouldn’t be surprised with either way that they handle it, but there will other brands that stick with their brand identity and require it be presented in a specific way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 minute ago, namefornamesake said: Why are we all assuming that T-Mobile's gonna be the Mariners sponsor? For all we know, Getty Images could snatch the ad up. (Look it up) We were just using it as an example of a well-known company and whether or not they would change the coloring of their logo in a given situation. 2 https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Also, another thought regarding these sponsorships and specifically T-Mobile: I highly doubt they would get involved with the Mariners. They already sponsor the ballpark. There are diminishing returns on investing further sponsorship into that team. I remember when Atlanta United (MLS) got off their feet and were seeking a shirt sponsor, so many folks wanted an Atlanta based company like Delta or Coca-Cola. That’s not how these things work. Those brands are already saturated in Atlanta. Who did they end up with? American Family Insurance, a company based out of the Midwest. That’s how these brands will grow their exposure and revenues, by opening themselves up into new markets, not continuing to sink their teeth into markets they already dominate. The only way I don’t think this applies is if the sponsoring company is a smaller player in the market and trying to gain market share. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosioux76 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, aawagner011 said: Also, another thought regarding these sponsorships and specifically T-Mobile: I highly doubt they would get involved with the Mariners. They already sponsor the ballpark. There are diminishing returns on investing further sponsorship into that team. I remember when Atlanta United (MLS) got off their feet and were seeking a shirt sponsor, so many folks wanted an Atlanta based company like Delta or Coca-Cola. That’s not how these things work. Those brands are already saturated in Atlanta. Who did they end up with? American Family Insurance, a company based out of the Midwest. That’s how these brands will grow their exposure and revenues, by opening themselves up into new markets, not continuing to sink their teeth into markets they already dominate. The only way I don’t think this applies is if the sponsoring company is a smaller player in the market and trying to gain market share. These are great points that continue to hammer home how these are not one-size-fits-all deals. As @aawagner011noted, sometimes the opportunity is regional with a brand looking to get a foothold in a new market. Other times, it's about broader exposure. I doubt Tik-Tok cares about boosting their market share in Wales; they paid to have their logo on Wrexham's jerseys because they knew it would bring international exposure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOfNormMacdonald Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I hope the Twins never get an ad, but with our owners I know it'll happen. Target already sponsors the field, so idk who else in MN would be willing to bite. I just hope it's not an out of state company 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet1929 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 I don't mind limiting the amount of jerseys and some redundant jerseys should and could be reduced but I don't like forcing teams to lose already existing jerseys. Like the Rays don't have a silly amount of jerseys like Arizona does. Is Nike gonna really have a problem keeping the Rays gray jersey in circulation? Especially when teams like the Yankees Dodgers and Tigers have less jerseys and aren't gonna ever reach the full 4+1, wouldn't that make up for a spot where the Rays and Seattle gray jerseys could still exist? I'm not saying it's ok to have a wild amount of jerseys I'm just saying that forcing teams to remove logical and, I dunno, "normal" jerseys seems so dumb to me. Instead of making some league wide crackdown, existing jerseys should be grandfathered in and then start removing redundant things like the Mets having two blue alternates and then in future years you limit what new alternates can be added. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampyrRabbit Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 1 hour ago, aawagner011 said: Deutsche Telekom is not just a big German company, but is in fact the biggest cellular provider in all of Europe. I think @gosioux76 outlined great points on why the market comparisons are totally different in Europe versus American sports. Soccer has also been doing this for decades now where the standard practices may be a bit different from one sport to another. They have a larger space to work with across the whole chest versus trying to cram their logo into a small patch. Soccer teams have been cramming sponsors into a small patch for decades now. As we can see, the top level Austrian League was one of the early pioneers. Most leagues have sleeve sponsorship, and the Prem allowed sleeve sponsorship in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 2 hours ago, VampyrRabbit said: Soccer teams have been cramming sponsors into a small patch for decades now. As we can see, the top level Austrian League was one of the early pioneers. Most leagues have sleeve sponsorship, and the Prem allowed sleeve sponsorship in 2016. I’m aware football clubs have been using sleeve sponsorships, but I still think this is an apples to oranges comparison. Your Austrian example has a sleeve sponsor in full color. The second one is a more minimalistic design like I mentioned, just text, which is adaptable to whatever color palette the team wants. That brand is likely flexible. For every neutral color example we see, I could just as easily post these which have full color sleeve sponsors (or colors that clash with the kit). The point of all this is that this isn’t a one size fits all solution and North America is an emerging market for on field sports advertising. What is the standard in one sport shouldn’t be indicative of what will happen in other sports. I am hopeful that we tend to see white text sponsors on dark color jerseys and dark text on white jerseys instead of big contrasting patches, but I am not hopeful that will be the case across the board. In the cases that the ads are minimalistic and mesh well with the jersey, we should be happy they didn’t make them worse than they did. As we have already seen with the NBA, many of these brands will force their full color logos. This is a good comparison since both are relatively small. There are a decent number of NBA teams that have basic ads, so hopefully we see some of that in MLB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampyrRabbit Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, aawagner011 said: I’m aware football clubs have been using sleeve sponsorships, but I still think this is an apples to oranges comparison. Your Austrian example has a sleeve sponsor in full color. The second one is a more minimalistic design like I mentioned, just text, which is adaptable to whatever color palette the team wants. That brand is likely flexible. For every neutral color example we see, I could just as easily post these which have full color sleeve sponsors (or colors that clash with the kit). My response wasn't anything to do with the colour palette, rather the line Quote Soccer has also been doing this for decades now where the standard practices may be a bit different from one sport to another. They have a larger space to work with across the whole chest versus trying to cram their logo into a small patch. They've been cramming logos into small patches for literally decades now, and I just gave two examples, one of the earliest pioneer leagues who turned players into walking billboards, and the biggest league in the world. I probably should have given the example of my hometown team alongside Man City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 So if your point wasn’t to do with the color palette of the small patch, then I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make about the advertisement? I’m genuinely not trying to be rude. The last several posts related to T Mobile have all been about the colors and differences from one market compared to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManillaToad Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Lmao you know a league has jumped the shark when ccslc starts debating how to make the ad patches look best 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, ManillaToad said: Lmao you know a league has jumped the shark when ccslc starts debating how to make the ad patches look best It is the sad reality of sports in 2023 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampyrRabbit Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, aawagner011 said: So if your point wasn’t to do with the color palette of the small patch, then I’m honestly not sure what point you’re trying to make about the advertisement? I’m genuinely not trying to be rude. The last several posts related to T Mobile have all been about the colors and differences from one market compared to another. Just that soccer teams have a lot of experience with cramming logos into ever and ever smaller spaces and they've been doing it for a long time. Or rather, them and the sponsors. And I wish they didn't. I've looked at thousands of Football shirts and never once thought one would look worse without the sponsor, but I've never once looked at a Baseball Jersey or Hockey sweater and thought "that would look even better with a (insert corporate sponsor here) logo on the sleeve". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aawagner011 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, VampyrRabbit said: Just that soccer teams have a lot of experience with cramming logos into ever and ever smaller spaces and they've been doing it for a long time. Or rather, them and the sponsors. And I wish they didn't. I've looked at thousands of Football shirts and never once thought one would look worse without the sponsor, but I've never once looked at a Baseball Jersey or Hockey sweater and thought "that would look even better with a (insert corporate sponsor here) logo on the sleeve". I don’t think anyone is saying baseball or hockey jerseys would look better with a sponsor. I believe most people just hope that if the ads have to be there, that they be as unobtrusive as possible. But most people are also realistic enough to know that won’t always be the case and there will be a situation where a team that’s red and blue randomly has some green ad patch that totally clashes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namefornamesake Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just saw that the Astros officially announced a jersey ad for OXY, which is some petroleum corporation. Obviously the only acceptable ad in this scenario would be NASA, but I guess it could be worse. It at least looks kinda space-agey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, namefornamesake said: Just saw that the Astros officially announced a jersey ad for OXY, which is some petroleum corporation. Obviously the only acceptable ad in this scenario would be NASA, but I guess it could be worse. It at least looks kinda space-agey. I don't think government agencies are gonna be using taxpayer money to buy ad space on baseball jerseys. Or I would hope not. 3 1 https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBGKon Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 1 minute ago, McCall said: I don't think government agencies are gonna be using taxpayer money to buy ad space on baseball jerseys. Or I would hope not. Yeah, I seem to recall the Army and Navy ads in Nascar has to be reeled back for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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