The_Admiral Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 10 hours ago, ZapRowsdower8 said: The NBA in Vancouver seems like such a no brainer, it doesn't make sense that it didn't work out, until you read how poorly managed that team was. If the Canadian dollar was stronger, and if Vegas and Seattle weren't already shoe ins for the next round of expansion, then I could see it being given another shot. Vancouver in 1995 was still kind of in transition, I think: it was more than the scuzzy little port/resource-extraction city of the '70s, but not yet Hongcouver, land of Hallmark Channel movies and condos that exist solely for money laundering. Seattle on tape delay. It seems natural now, but it was still less cosmopolitan than Toronto, which itself was recently coming into its own as a city of Hallmark movies and condos that exist solely for money laundering. It was a reach, and the Canucks and Supersonics squeezed them too hard. 2 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 The Washington/Senators situation I believe was the one notable instance (after the 1901 expansions) where a city got three chances at a team in the same professional sports league. Of course, the Nationals have proven to be well valued by the locals, which completely put to bed many people's concerns of them being able to compete with the Orioles at the time. I don't know much about Montreal's situation, but I do know that MLB managed to finally put DC back on the baseball map. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 The first two were failures of management more than location. The AL Nats/Sens MK I moved largely because of the Griffiths’ cheapness and racism, while the Sens MK II suffered from severe financial mismanagement. Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Tragic Browns to Baltimore Sonics to OKC Jets to Phoenix Chargers to LA* Dodgers to LA** Raiders to Las Vegas A's to Las Vegas Colts to Indianapolis Rams to St. Louis Oilers to Nashville Probably for the best, but I feel bad the diehards Whalers to Raleigh Nordiques to Colorado Raiders to LA Royals to KC*** Expos to Washington Giants to San Francisco North Stars to Dallas Good Flames to Calgary Thrashers to Winnipeg Browns to Baltimore (lol****) Lakers to LA Jazz to Utah Coyotes to Utah Raiders back to Oakland A's to Oakland Braves to Atlanta Senators to Minnesota Senators to Texas***** Rockies to New Jersey Rams back to LA Can't Care Either Way Cardinals to Phoenix Hornets to New Orleans Grizzlies to Memphis Kings to Sacramento Buffalo Braves to San Diego Scouts to Colorado *The Chargers were in San Diego longer than the Browns were in Cleveland before they moved. I feel like this is a Cleopatra/Pyramids kind of situation. **Not that the LA Dodgers haven't become a cultural institution of their own, but that team leaving Brooklyn feels like we lost something important with that relocation. In hindsight, it's the same kind of the short-sighted mid-century carelessness that led to the razing of historic architecture all over the country in order to build highways. LA would've eventually gotten the expansion slot that is now the Mets so they'd still be covered. Imagine if Fenway or Wrigley had been torn down in the late 50's - That's what we lost with the demolition of Ebbets Field (I know they were already trying to replace Ebbets in the 50's and the stadium was a big reason they moved to LA as it is, but still. Would've been cooler to stay put and make the same occasional updates that the Cubs and Red Sox applied to their historic stadiums.) ***Old-timers here don't seem to have much to say about the Royals, but the NBA in those days was small potatoes. I do believe if Cincinnati had held onto an NBA team for another 7 or 8 years they would've gotten to the Bird/Magic era when things started to cook and we'd probably still have a team today. ****if I had a nickel for every time a team named the Browns relocated to Baltimore, Maryland, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice. *****Did they name the Nationals the Nationals because the name Senators was so cursed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 35 minutes ago, Sport said: Tragic Browns to Baltimore Sonics to OKC Jets to Phoenix Chargers to LA* Dodgers to LA** Raiders to Las Vegas A's to Las Vegas Colts to Indianapolis Rams to St. Louis Oilers to Nashville Probably for the best, but I feel bad the diehards Whalers to Raleigh Nordiques to Colorado Raiders to LA Royals to KC*** Expos to Washington Giants to San Francisco North Stars to Dallas Good Flames to Calgary Thrashers to Winnipeg Browns to Baltimore (lol****) Lakers to LA Jazz to Utah Coyotes to Utah Raiders back to Oakland A's to Oakland Braves to Atlanta Senators to Minnesota Senators to Texas***** Rockies to New Jersey Rams back to LA Can't Care Either Way Cardinals to Phoenix Hornets to New Orleans Grizzlies to Memphis Kings to Sacramento Buffalo Braves to San Diego Scouts to Colorado *The Chargers were in San Diego longer than the Browns were in Cleveland before they moved. I feel like this is a Cleopatra/Pyramids kind of situation. **Not that the LA Dodgers haven't become a cultural institution of their own, but that team leaving Brooklyn feels like we lost something important with that relocation. In hindsight, it's the same kind of the short-sighted mid-century carelessness that led to the razing of historic architecture all over the country in order to build highways. LA would've eventually gotten the expansion slot that is now the Mets so they'd still be covered. Imagine if Fenway or Wrigley had been torn down in the late 50's - That's what we lost with the demolition of Ebbets Field (I know they were already trying to replace Ebbets in the 50's and the stadium was a big reason they moved to LA as it is, but still. Would've been cooler to stay put and make the same occasional updates that the Cubs and Red Sox applied to their historic stadiums.) ***Old-timers here don't seem to have much to say about the Royals, but the NBA in those days was small potatoes. I do believe if Cincinnati had held onto an NBA team for another 7 or 8 years they would've gotten to the Bird/Magic era when things started to cook and we'd probably still have a team today. ****if I had a nickel for every time a team named the Browns relocated to Baltimore, Maryland, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice. *****Did they name the Nationals the Nationals because the name Senators was so cursed? Where's A's to KC? Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynasty Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 58 minutes ago, Sport said: *****Did they name the Nationals the Nationals because the name Senators was so cursed? If I'm correct, it was primarily because the city doesn't even have any representation in the U.S. Senate (I don't know why they didn't consider that with the earlier Senators teams, but it was considered in 2004). I think many also wanted a fresh start from those two relocations and went with Nationals because of the city's deeper history with the name (I know we also had multiple iterations with "Nationals," but that was a different era of baseball). Worth noting that during the Expos relocation, the D.C. mayor at the time suggested the name to be the Greys, which honored the Negro League Homestead Greys team from Pittsburgh which frequently came to play games in D.C.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 58 minutes ago, Sport said: Did they name the Nationals the Nationals because the name Senators was so cursed? The mayor was being a little stinker about DC not having congressmen and Bud Selig said he liked Nationals better. 2 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 S-tier Jets to Phoenix A-tier Chargers to Los Angeles Supersonics to Oklahoma City Raiders to Las Vegas Rams to St. Louis Athletics to Las Vegas via Sacramento Whalers to Raleigh via Greensboro Oilers to Nashville via Memphis North Stars to Dallas Browns to Baltimore B-tier Nordiques to Denver Expos to Washington Senators to Dallas Colts to Indianapolis C-tier Hornets to New Orleans Raiders to Los Angeles Jazz to Salt Lake City Senators to Minneapolis Braves to Atlanta Dodgers to Los Angeles Giants to San Francisco D-tier Kings to Sacramento Grizzlies to Memphis Cardinals to Phoenix Flames to Calgary Hockey Rockies to Jersey Scouts to Denver Pilots to Milwaukee F-tier Rams back to Los Angeles Raiders back to Oakland Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 10 minutes ago, The_Admiral said: The mayor was being a little stinker about DC not having congressmen and Bud Selig said he liked Nationals better. This is also why the cursive W got shoehorned into the original design, because the DC mayor and associates used the old red Sens hat to represent “Washington baseball.” Which led to a lot of terrible decisions with the team’s branding. I’m salty that they weren't the Grays. 2 Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDAWG Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 One wonders if Dallas gets an NHL team in the late 90's if the North Stars stay and how successful would they be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Does nobody care about how the good citizens of Syracuse had their hearts literally ripped out of their collective chests and were then forced to literally eat their own still-beating hearts and wash it down with their own blood when the Basketball Nationals moved to become the Philadelphia 76ers? You'd have to be heartless not to care about the literal heartless. 2 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lights Out Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Jets to Phoenix sounds like the name of a pretentious slowcore band. 5 1 Quote POTD: 2/4/12 3/4/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 3 hours ago, BBTV said: Does nobody care about how the good citizens of Syracuse Find me a good citizen of Syracuse and I'll care. Quote All roads lead to Dollar General. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 5 hours ago, Lights Out said: Jets to Phoenix sounds like the name of a pretentious slowcore band. The Guess Who sucked, the Jets were lousy anyway Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo_prankster Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Regarding the Chargers' departure to Los Angeles, my feelings are mixed. On the one hand, I miss having a hometown team. On the other, I've moved on and adopted the Rams to fill my NFL void. I was in first grade when the Rams moved from LA to St. Louis. I never understood why those guys would move to a smaller market with fewer tourist attractions. Even as a San Diegan, it didn't feel right for Los Angeles to be without an NFL team for so many years because of the league's inescapable stranglehold on American culture. But the thing that really bothered me during my childhood was that the Rams and Raiders leaving LA opened up the City of Angels for Dean Spanos to use as a weapon to bully the taxpayers in my town. Year after year, as Deano allowed AJ Smith to tear the team down only to see former Bolts like Drew Brees thrive elsewhere, coupled wih Eli Manning refusing to suit up for the Bolts at the 2004 draft, my fandom started to sag. In the years when the Chargers would post double-digit losing seasons, I secretly hopped on the bandwagon for better clubs, like the Greatest Show on Turf Rams, the 2000 Ravens and the 2002 Bucs. When Vince McMahon first announced he was starting the original XFL, I was initially excited because that was a few months before the Chargers went 1-15 in 2000. I wanted that first XFL to succeed. At the time of XFL 1.0's lone season, I was thirteen. By that stage, the XFL became a coping mechanism for the combined futility of both the Padres and Chargers up to that point. Another strike against my Charger fandom was my own father. His toddler-like temper tantrums about how much he hated the Raiders became more obnoxious and infantile during Jon Gruden's first tenure as the Raiders' coach. The extreme way he generalized Raider fans as this or that started to rub off on me, which made sportsmanship difficult sometimes when I was younger on those rare occasions when the Raiders beat the Bolts. And on one occassion, my paternal grandparents threw a huge fit when one of my younger cousins brought home a Pop Warner jersey given to her by a classmate just because it had a logo that was similar to that of the Raiders. Again, I wanted the XFL to succeed, and wanted NFL Europe to stick around longer, the CFL to have more TV coverage in the States and Arena Football to gain more mainstream respect, because Dad's insufferable animosity toward the Raiders sometimes made the NFL tough to engage with. Now, with those pesky Chargers out of the way, I'm much more at ease around kind, decent, genuine, humble people whose favorite football team happens to be the Raiders. I also feel more comfortable around fans of all the other teams in the league. The way my dad moaned and complained about the Commanders refusing the change their then-current slur name was also source of embarrassment. That was before I was old enough to understand why the old name was rightly condemned as offensive. I had a classmate in high school who was a Commander fan, but I never told my dad because I didn't want to deal with him accusing said classmate of condoning the racial slur nickname. My point, is that as a San Diego resident, I'm glad the Chargers left and I look forward to the UFL expanding here. 1 Quote The Fictional Story of Austus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 6 hours ago, GDAWG said: One wonders if Dallas gets an NHL team in the late 90's if the North Stars stay and how successful would they be? They'd be the Predators, a halfway-decent team for precious suburbanites with hick anxiety. That's more or less what the Stars are anyway after the Best Team Money Could Buy and the bankruptcy cross-cancelled. 1 minute ago, neo_prankster said: Now, with those pesky Chargers out of the way, I'm much more at ease around kind, decent, genuine, humble people whose favorite football team happens to be the Raiders. I might be the kindest and most decent Raiders fan in America and I'm a piece of filth. 1 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sport Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 17 hours ago, BBTV said: Where's A's to KC? That one might be tragic considering the history of the club. Always feels to me like the wrong team moved. Sort of like if the Browns had stayed in St. Louis and the Cardinals had moved to Baltimore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 On 8/10/2024 at 11:39 PM, PrimalCookie said: I think Phoenix gets Jacksonville's expansion slot and the Rams might've beat the Oilers to Tennessee (I'm not sure on Nashville or Memphis). Raiders still go back to Oakland, Browns to Baltimore. The Oilers maybe end up in Jacksonville if they still leave Houston, but if they stay the 2002 expansion goes to LA and the only relocation from the 2016-20 wave that still happens is the Raiders to Vegas. Rams have no reason to move to Tennessee. The only reason they moved to St. Louis is because the owner was from there. Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 On 8/11/2024 at 11:09 PM, neo_prankster said: Again, why did it take baseball so long to wake up and realize some cities (Philly, STL, Boston) weren't really able to support two teams each? It didn't. The cartel simply chose to spread some of the product out to other markets to preclude another league starting up/the Pacific Coast League doing The Thing. (Baltimore, Minnesota, KC, Milwaukee, LA, SF Bay, one or two others like Atlanta, baby you've got a stew going.) 3 Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, Sport said: That one might be tragic considering the history of the club. Always feels to me like the wrong team moved. Sort of like if the Browns had stayed in St. Louis and the Cardinals had moved to Baltimore. Meanwhile, I’d put A’s to Oakland in the good category, despite the move being a failure of ownership (Charlie O.) and indirectly dooming Seattle’s first MLB club. Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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