Pacers/Pistons

[Waffles]

Tayshawn Prince actually managed to stay on the bench.

Personally, I think the circumstances were such that if they left the bench but didn't throw any punches or anything, they shouldn't lose game time. For all we know, they could've fled the bench fearing for their lives and players leaving the bench without making the fight worse are the least of the league's problems in this situation.

[The_Admiral]

And lastly though Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle tried their best to clam the situation down after it wnet into the stands, before they should have been getting player back to the bench and Carlisle should have gotten Artest off teh scorers table, and thus each deserve a 3 game suspension.

Larry Brown can't even coach standing up! What the hell do you want him to do?!?

[BigEd76]

Not to rag on the Philly fans, but you folks in the, ahem, City of Brotherly Love even booed Santa Claus. Seems as if you need to clean house before you get defensive.

Do you know anything about the details of that day, or are you simply going by what the media has told you over the years?

[slapshot]

It's funny how a lot of people here think Artest should get the largest suspension based on his history. It was not that hard a foul, Wallace totally overreacted. And Wallace throwing his towel towards the Indiana bench did NOT help the situation.

Artest stayed on the scorer's table. It didn't look like there was any room to get up without contacting the Pistons players or the referee. He didn't do anything else until he got hit in the eye with the beer. If someone threw something at my face, my first reaction is NOT to walk away. And one of the fans who held on to Artest repeatedly punched him in the back of the head.

ESPN showed the whole incident in slow motion, you could clearly see many of the fans involved.

I hope Artest's suspension is only based on this, and not because of his past. What he did in previous games has no bearing on this. If you hold past incidents against a player during non-related situations (giving him a T for a hard foul because he's gotten them in the past) compromises the integrity of the game.

[CC97]

I hope Artest's suspension is only based on this, and not because of his past. What he did in previous games has no bearing on this. If you hold past incidents against a player during non-related situations (giving him a T for a hard foul because he's gotten them in the past) compromises the integrity of the game.

I disagree, you must take into account past suspensions, especially if they both involve violence.

[Waffles]

I hope Artest's suspension is only based on this, and not because of his past. What he did in previous games has no bearing on this. If you hold past incidents against a player during non-related situations (giving him a T for a hard foul because he's gotten them in the past) compromises the integrity of the game.

I disagree, you must take into account past suspensions, especially if they both involve violence.

So what about Rasheed Wallace? Should his less than shining history be considered when he appeared to be trying to diffuse the situation?

[NJTank]

Rasheed did look like he was trying to calm things down, and I dont know but it looks like he may have turned his life arround he is not getting in much trouble last few years.

Artest on the other hand has been acting very erraticly lately.

I blame Carlisle more then Brown but he had to get his guys back to the bench Im not sure what mor ethey can do but I think the NBA needs to send a message a 3 game suspension is not harsh.

ANd yes all theses Suspension I recomend should be without pay.

[Magus]

im not going to read 4 pages of this, so i'll just jump right in with my $0.02.

I was flipping through the espn channels and i saw the sportscasters discussing this. NOrmally when i see silly basketball coverage i change it, but when i saw the footage, i thought to my self this worth my time to watch. now i don't know a piston from a pacer. but i do know that it was exciting to watch. i personally don't know any of the players involved nor did i care who won the game. I just wanted to see some entertainment.

[See Red]

I haven't yet read any posts but I've been without internet access since before this happened and I've been acheing to talk about it so here I go..

Ron Artest should not get any criminal charges filed against him because he was completely staying out of all of it until he was assaulted by a fan; Ron Artest has every right to defend himself in that situation whether it means going into the crowd or not. Ron Artest never swung at a person who didn't instigate it, or didn't get onto the court and into the face of him. Like John Saunders said, if you went onto the court, you deserved anything you got. That situation was calming down until the fans got it started up again, so you have to think that either Ben Wallace, for starting the fight in the first place on what wasn't a flagarant or technical foul or even much of a hard foul, or the blame has to fall onto the lap of the Pistons fans that provoked him. On that note, Jackson didn't hit any innocent people either, the one person he hit was somebody who was in the process of going after Artest.

Jermaine O'Neal should not be suspended as long as he will be. The fan he hit had come onto the court which is illegal in the first place and you don't know if a fan can sneak a knife into the game or something, so any time he feels threatened because a fan has come onto the court should allow him to defend himself.

You can only be a 'professional' about it to a certain point, once you feel physically threated and are acting in what is your self defense -- I think you have to do what you have to do. I don't think all the players should go free, with no suspensions, but what the NBA is going to hand out to these guys is going to be too much, in my opinion. Remember, it's all my opinion.

And so Tank, let me get this straight -- you're saying Ron Artest shouldn't have been staying out of it, rather in the middle of it trying to take on Ben Wallace and have the more likely situation escalate even worse? That's insane.

How do you blame Carlisle, Tank? All but 3 Pacers were trying to break up the situation. He should not have them in the stand trying to pull Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson out abnd getting them off the court?m That would have made the situation SO much better.

[NJTank]

Its a supspenison to the coaches as making an example, and to set a precedent.

[TFoA]

Rasheed did look like he was trying to calm things down, and I dont know but it looks like he may have turned his life arround he is not getting in much trouble last few years.

Yeah, I noticed that too... Of all people, Rasheed Wallace was the one trying to calm things down... They should just give him the Sportsmanship Award AND TSN's "Good Guy" Award this year, because in that entire thing he didn't throw one punch AND he tried to stop the whole thing ...Amazing

[NewYawkSeahawk]

#4. Security in ANY U.S. Stadium sucks... most can't do anything unless they saw it with their own eyes. (side note.. Gillette Stadium Security REALLY SUCKS)

It's hard to fault security here -- a fan threw the beer at Artest. It's hard to stop that from happening before it happens. It's also hard to keep an eye on every fan in the stadium at every second that they are in the stadium, and even if you are able to hire enough security to accomplish this, you still wouldn't have been able to stop the initial spill. I do security at a major league stadium, trust me on this.

Yeah... I agree with what you are saying to a degree.

I used to work in law enforcement and I will say that most people doing stadium security are usually not the type to be proactive in breaking up fights or what not.

Nothing personal Chris.. but most any stadium you go to, you have either really old men, really large women or a bunch of people with criminal records working stadium security.

I forget who, but some political guy in Detroit said it best during an interview with ESPN... Yeah, the stadium security staff are nice guys but they arent the type to get involved and break something up.

Not that I blame them or anything... for $8 an hour plus a square badge, I wouldnt put my neck on the line either.

Also... the real reason why stadium hires security has nothing to do with breaking up fights and disruptions... It is 100% an insurance REQUIREMENT.... Without some form of security involved on any commercial business, they are very unlikely to get insurace.... Think of it as putting a alarm on your car.

Once again Chris... no offense... but I did Law Enforcement for a while, and this is the facts.

[CC97]

#4. Security in ANY U.S. Stadium sucks... most can't do anything unless they saw it with their own eyes. (side note.. Gillette Stadium Security REALLY SUCKS)

It's hard to fault security here -- a fan threw the beer at Artest. It's hard to stop that from happening before it happens. It's also hard to keep an eye on every fan in the stadium at every second that they are in the stadium, and even if you are able to hire enough security to accomplish this, you still wouldn't have been able to stop the initial spill. I do security at a major league stadium, trust me on this.

Yeah... I agree with what you are saying to a degree.

I used to work in law enforcement and I will say that most people doing stadium security are usually not the type to be proactive in breaking up fights or what not.

Nothing personal Chris.. but most any stadium you go to, you have either really old men, really large women or a bunch of people with criminal records working stadium security.

I forget who, but some political guy in Detroit said it best during an interview with ESPN... Yeah, the stadium security staff are nice guys but they arent the type to get involved and break something up.

Not that I blame them or anything... for $8 an hour plus a square badge, I wouldnt put my neck on the line either.

Also... the real reason why stadium hires security has nothing to do with breaking up fights and disruptions... It is 100% an insurance REQUIREMENT.... Without some form of security involved on any commercial business, they are very unlikely to get insurace.... Think of it as putting a alarm on your car.

Once again Chris... no offense... but I did Law Enforcement for a while, and this is the facts.

Yes I understand, that is also the case at the SkyDome, and probably every other stadium in North America.

[DEAD!]

Not that I blame them or anything... for $8 an hour plus a square badge, I wouldnt put my neck on the line either.

Also... the real reason why stadium hires security has nothing to do with breaking up fights and disruptions... It is 100% an insurance REQUIREMENT.... Without some form of security involved on any commercial business, they are very unlikely to get insurace.... Think of it as putting a alarm on your car.

The same can be said about airports, which were notriously criticized after September 11, 2001 for hiring cheap security.

[random]

I really think you all need a basic refresher in law.

"Ron Artest had every legal right to defend himself"

That is true, however, running into the crowd and pounding someone who may or may not have actually been involved is NOT self defense, its retribution. Running into the locker room or ducking behind a table to protect himself is self defense. Legally, self defense does not involve an assult that allready happened, but one that is about to happen. And you only have a right to use appropriate force to stop that assult from happening. What artest did WAS NOT self defense, you can argue weather or not his act of retribution was justified, but please do not cloak it under the banner of self defense.

[yh]

Tayshawn Prince actually managed to stay on the bench.

Well thank heavens for that. I already lost Jermaine O'Neal from my fantasy team; I certainly didn't need to lose anyone else.

[LMU]

well, fantasy-wise, thank god I traded for dampier, so I can go ahead and place wallace on the bench for his stint.

[NewYawkSeahawk]

I really think you all need a basic refresher in law.

"Ron Artest had every legal right to defend himself"

That is true, however, running into the crowd and pounding someone who may or may not have actually been involved is NOT self defense, its retribution. Running into the locker room or ducking behind a table to protect himself is self defense. Legally, self defense does not involve an assult that allready happened, but one that is about to happen. And you only have a right to use appropriate force to stop that assult from happening. What artest did WAS NOT self defense, you can argue weather or not his act of retribution was justified, but please do not cloak it under the banner of self defense.

LOL... yeah you may be right... I may have left my CPL book back in my locker 3 years ago when I retired... (SARCASM)

"but please do not cloak it under the banner of self defense."

LOL....

CLOAK?

BANNER?

What are you? A 3rd year law student from Virgina Community College or something?

who talks like that in a sports message board?

Oh man.... that was a well needed laugh.... I guess 3 years off and I have forgotten the law.....

Thank you for that basic refresher in law..... you really put me back on track (SARCASM)

Perhaps you need a basic refresher in English.....

Weather is something that happens outside!

*Note: normally i do not comment on people's mis-spellings, typos or Virginia State GED Education... but if you are going to condescend someone.... make sure you know the difference between "WHETHER" and "WEATHER"!

[See Red]

As players like Jermaine O'Neal have said -- they feared for their safety, and the safety of their teammates. If that's not enough of a reason to be able to use physical force on somebody, what is? Self defense is defined as a plea of justification for the use of force or for homicide. Being physically assaulted isn't justification for using physical force? Where exactly is Ron Artest going to hide? Mid-court, hoping that they don't have good enough arms to reach him? It may have only been one beer, but then some stupid drunk guy sees him throw it and thinks it's alright for him to the same and soon enough, you might've had the court littered with trash whether or not Artest reacted. Or is he going to walk through the tunnel to have beer dumped on him and bags of popcorn thrown at him?