Message from Paul Lukas of UniWatch

[TBGKon]

Hello all-

Paul Lukas of UniWatch sent me a message to post about the recent DC baseball choices he made....here is the message....

Hi, folks -- Paul Lukas here. It's pretty amusing to see how many of you are happy to trade anonymous potshots amonst yourselves about me, my taste, or my writing, yet not one of you had the guts or gumption to send me a simple email telling me what you think. My email address is there at the end of each column -- if you have a problem with my work, I'm happy to hear it (and even discuss it, as long as the original message isn't abusive).

About the DC uniform contest: I was somewhat surprised to see how many of you took issue with the fact that some of my selected winners didn't use Illustrator or other professional design software. Frankly, digital technology means nothing to me, and using the same template as a jillion other people means even less. Creative inspiration matters much more to me than professional execution. One of the biggest problems in contemporary uniform design is that the approach has gotten *too* professional, too corporate, too homogeneous, too template-driven -- everything looks like it's coming from the same generic wellspring of blandness. That cut-and-paste logo I singled out may be "amateurish" (or whatever similar term you might like to use), but that's part of its charm, at least to me, and the basic image of the pitching eagle is great, kinda like the Pittsbugh Penguins' skating penguin. Or at least that's how it felt to me -- reasonable people can disagree.

Some of you have wondered about my credentials or qualifications. The short answer is that I'm a sports geek, just like you, although I'm probably a bit more history-minded than the average fan (I say this not as a boast but as a simple observation based on personal encounters). I have a prettyextensive library of old uniform catalogs and related materials, and I have contacts at all of the major halls of fame. I also write about food, collectibles, business history, design, travel, music etc., usually in a detail-oriented way similar to the approach I use in Uni Watch. I'm not "trained" in any of these areas -- I'm just an enthusiast who's been

lucky enough to turn his obsessions into a career. Make of this what you will.

I'm not registered on this site, but feel free to contact me directly. If you'd rather talk trash about me on these message boards, that's fine too, but please come up with a more original insult than calling me "Paul Puke-as" -- that just makes you look lame.

Cheers,

Paul (uniwatch@earthlink.net)

(Note...fixed the formatting for easier reading... GMac)

[DEAD!]

He does a point about the way the uniforms are presented.

"Creative inspiration matters much more to me than professional execution."

I tend to agree with that to a certain extent. Had the winning entry been transformed into a more profressional layout, some of you would think it's not all that bad. I don't use illustrator to make my designs, but it doesn't mean I can't have a creative idea.

Hee! Hee! "Paul Puke-as"

[Sterling84]

Paul,

I?m always amazed when people in the ?real? world like Joe Bosack (tremendous asset) stop by our little community. But I?m even more amazed when our ramblings draw a response from the outside world ( The IHA nonsense, ummm, also the Phoenix Coyotes requesting Chris remove their new logo from the site, upon it?s leak) and now this.

Is it flattering or sad when a public figure gets riled up about what little ole us thinks? I believe in what this board stands for. As in it?s probably the most civil forum I?ve ever seen, featuring talented, kind, thoughtful members, with some real-world design chops. But even with all those superlatives and all our quasi-relevance, I just can?t believe our opinions matter so much to anyone that isn?t a member. I don?t know about the rest of the members here, but most of the time I?m just typing to get stuff off my chest. In other words, don?t you just validate us (and our criticism) by responding to it?

Regardless, I think maybe you got the wrong opinion of our little clan based off that thread alone. First, it?s not that we?re chicken to write anyone. Several of us have personally had a hand in stopping identity theft by standing up and being heard. I?ve written Adrenaline Design and told them how godawful the new Coyotes logo is. I?ve corrected some columnists on NFL.com. and my calling in has led to contributing to the show of a prominent sportstalk professional. These ?letters to the web-editor? though, are rarely replied to, even rarer still are they satisfying. I FIND IT HUMOROUS that at the heart of the issue is whether or not it?s more ?manly? to email a guy or post about him. Those are two pretty wussy choices Paul. The fact that no one here bothered to berate you via email was probably a compliment, if a backhanded one. I remember the first link to your column posted here, and that everyone was very thrilled ESPN took the issue ?seriously? enough to use bandwidth on it. In the simplest terms, we feel very vindicated that a national columnist is enthusiastic about the same things that we are. And we are probably a wee bit jealous that you get paid to do what we do for free every day. So basically Way to Go!

And to echo your main point??sports logos are too homogenized. There is precious little fun or originality left in the field any longer. Every baseball logo looks the ?same?. Everything at that level is focus-grouped and market tested to death. Much about sports marketing is far too Madison Avenue, and not nearly enough Durham Bulls. We all know this and by and large agree with you.

I think what made some members crabby (and elicited my underwhelming ?Meh?) was a couple of things actually. First, everyone who entered hoped they?d be picked. Some of us did some really solid stuff and when it was glossed over, were annoyed. Second, and this is harder to explain, is that although you seem to be cut from the same cloth as we are, your opinions vary pretty severely from our own. If it weren?t so unfair, I?d be tempted to say some of us view you as an imposter, or perhaps a poser? Again, that?s not what I?m calling you. That?s just the vibe I get.

[ analogy alert!] It?s like, imagine instead of sports logos (pretty geeky hobby) we were all a rare breed that liked??music. (For the purposes of this analogy, pretend music is for nerds in a different reality). So we all love music and gather here to discuss it regularly. When suddenly, we have a mainstream voice on a national scale because TRL comes on the air. Only, we come to realize that TRL plays only junk and suddenly our collective hobby (with tons of passionate opinions and a scary volume of knowledge) has been boiled down to one Good Charlotte tune that doesn?t begin to reflect our particular tastes. Having your message distorted, is almost worse than not having a voice. Follow? I make such LABORED analogies so please forgive me. It?s not the best one I?ve ever spouted. But my point is that I think some of the group feels your column would be so close to the coolest thing ever, if only we didn?t disagree with at least half of what you write. The polls regarding great/horrible uniforms was really frustrating because so many of them went the opposite of how we collectively thought they should go.

Sadly, for our own sanity and reputations, we should get real and acknowledge that there is just as much room for varied opinion in this field as any other. We will never all agree, and you are entitled to your viewpoint. We can?t appoint a Master Chief of logo and uniform standards that would satisfy everyone. We disagree internally quite a bit too ya know. Maybe if some of us HAD written directly to you, we could be an asset to your column in the future, or at the very least avoid things like this.

And equally sad for you however Mr. Lukas, is the fact that we are just a internet forum. We are entitled to think that the finalists were uninspired and lackluster and say so here. And if our comments truly offended, I would liken them to a private conversation amongst friends. We didn?t bring them to your doorstep. We?re just talking amongst ourselves. Talking amongst ourselves in the most available public way possible, but still just talking. If this is the worst feedback you ever get in publishing, I think you?ll be doing just fine.

Lastly, to mercifully wrap up?I don?t doubt your creds Mr. Lukas. Far from it. I disagree with roughly 43% of your opinions and tastes, but am glad your column exists and appreciate that ultimately, it?s really none of my business. If you?d prefer to hear about it man to man, I think we can accommodate you. And I don?t mean that in a threatening way at all. Just not sure you?re ready for the volume of dialogue you may be inviting. And as for you not being a member and not posting this message yourself. Why on earth aren?t you??! This is right up your alley G! Hey, Ali G??..I made a funny. This is your field n stuff. It?s fun here. What gives? Are you afraid you?ll post something that?ll conflict with the job and all? Cause I can see that. Curious.

No hard feelings. Hope you have none too. But seriously, those finalists (with the exception of the GW batter guy) are bunk. You wanna talk about why??..we?ll be here.

[pcgd]

Another thing is, his column is on Page 2. Its ment for entertainment. If he posted my Grays concept for example (which I'm not surprised wasn't picked, the logo was original but the uniforms were basically what was used by the orginal grays) it wasn't really entertaining. It was just a (allow me to toot my own horn) a well rendered uniform. Nothing too original.

Had someone summited what was actually picked, it more than likely wouldn't have made his list. Its a Major League logo, but it really isn't entertaining.

I appreciate what he does, and I think we all take his article at face value, instead of tounge in cheek as its intended. I could be wrong about that however.

[paynomind]

Well put, Sterling...

Sterling for Master Chief of Logo and Uniform Standards, 2005!!

[Sterling84]

I think we all take his article at face value, instead of tounge in cheek as its intended

Good GOOD point. I think some people really thought though...since Paul said he'd send them to MLB......that they'd have a real chance and be judged based on actual criteria.

Not the case I guess.

I happen to have not sent anything in, so jealousy isn't my motive.

I just feel like......Dude....you're cool and everything.....but it's just a forum. Having someone else post a "leave me alone" thread isn't going to change much.

Just trying to get to the heart of it and be diplomatic. Ultimately, the higher profile we get, the more interesting opportunities will come everyone's way.

[shiznit1083]

I echo many of Sterling's statements and I won't repeat them all because that's just too many.

But seriously, Paul, we have no personal bad feelings, we are just here to debate logos and voice our opinions. I would be thrilled to have you as an active member of the board because you seem to be as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all disagree on a regular basis, but that's what makes this place so fun.

[DEAD!]

Well put, Sterling...

Sterling for Master Chief of Logo and Uniform Standards, 2005!!

Credentials: designing that awesome Manitoba Moose logo

Another thing is, his column is on Page 2. Its ment for entertainment. If he posted my Grays concept for example (which I'm not surprised wasn't picked, the logo was original but the uniforms were basically what was used by the orginal grays) it wasn't really entertaining. It was just a (allow me to toot my own horn) a well rendered uniform. Nothing too original.

Had someone summited what was actually picked, it more than likely wouldn't have made his list. Its a Major League logo, but it really isn't entertaining.

I appreciate what he does, and I think we all take his article at face value, instead of tounge in cheek as its intended. I could be wrong about that however.

It was definately meant for entertainment. I kinda laughed at the winning entry to some degree especially the Geroge Washington in Harmon Kilibrew stance. I criticised it for not being all that original The funniest one was the whole Pac-Man set. I thought it should have been the winner because it was so outrageous.

[Sec19Row53]

Well put, Sterling...

Sterling for Master Chief of Logo and Uniform Standards, 2005!!

Sterling's title needs to be:

The Man from UNCLE (that's Uniforms, Nicknames, Colors, Logos and Emblems - TM - BobNBrian, Lazer 103)

[CC97]

the Phoenix Coyotes requesting Chris remove their new logo from the site, upon it?s leak

I would just like to clarify.

The makers of the video game "ESPN Hockey" asked me to take down the screenshot because the NHL threatened to pull their license due to the screenshot leak.

So I removed the screenshot and tried to re-draw the logo as best as I could.

[Mings]

I think he would be a great asset to the forums. he could definitely put some of the designers here on the map with his articles. he could even interview sterling and how he came up with the awesome moose logo.

[Sterling84]

I would just like to clarify.

The makers of the video game "ESPN Hockey" asked me to take down the screenshot because the NHL threatened to pull their license due to the screenshot leak.

So I removed the screenshot and tried to re-draw the logo as best as I could.

Thank you kind sir. Accuracy has never been my strong suit.

Sterling's title needs to be:

The Man from UNCLE (that's Uniforms, Nicknames, Colors, Logos and Emblems - TM - BobNBrian, Lazer 103)

In a way, I already am. Not really, Bob thinks he's the man from UNCLE. But I help Czabe sometimes now and again on uni issues. In fact, very shortly there should be a Jimmy Masterlock T-shirt for sale that I designed.

sorry guys.....inside joke. Back to the topic at hand.

[Brian in Boston]

... we should get real and acknowledge that there is just as much room for varied opinion in this field as any other.

That says it all in a nutshell.

An opinion column is just that: a written piece filled with the columnist's opinion. It's not meant to represent or reflect the opinion(s) of any other individual or group. So, when some of the logo enthusiasts in the CCSLB community think that Mr. Lukas' column "would be so close to the coolest thing ever, if only we didn't disagree with at least half" of what he writes... well, tough plop. It's his column. He never signed on to be "the voice of the logo enthusiast" or, by extension, develop opinions that we'd all agree with.

[Sterling84]

Thanks BiB. Opinion is just opinion. But I think that goes for us too. Which is why I thought it weird he'd reply to us in person this way, AS an opinion guy, knowing full well that what our members were spewing was just.......opinion.

[DarthMan]

Well, I think it's great he contacted us...

[Brian in Boston]

Well, I think that he would probably have ignored the posts to the original CCSLB thread if the difference in opinions had been expressed in something even approaching a respectful manner. However, many of the responses contain such level-headed (sarcasm fully intended) remarks as:

This guy's a "Grade 'A' moron"...

Now that this clown...

... it's a matter of him getting paid to have horrible taste...

It is appalling that Paul Lukas earns a paycheck by dispensing his untrained or at least faulty eye toward logos and uniforms.

that guy is on crack

I'd say 5-10 guys here trump him in taste in experience.

I mean, these examples run the gamut from name-calling and insults (moron... clown... on crack) to an indication that members of our community have no idea what writing an opinion column entails or that Mr. Lukas has never claimed to be a professionally-trained designer.

Paul Lukas writes columns based on his opinions about a variety of pop-culture phenomenons, including sports uniform and logo design. He's never made any claim that his opinions seek to speak for the greater sports logo design - or, enthusiast - communities. He's never claimed to have a "trained" eye with regard to offering up judgement on sports uniforms or logos. He writes columns based on his personal opinion... which is precisely what his employers want him to do. If ESPN wanted a piece written on the professional merits of a particular sports logo design, they'd assign a reporter to research and write a piece on said logo design. Whether any member of this community possesses the requisite skill-set necessary to produce either well-written columns or news articles about sports logo/uniform design on a regular basis... under deadline... in a grammatically-correct form is open to considerable debate.

Bottom line? If I were in Paul's shoes, I probably would have ignored the sniping and back-biting emanating from the CCSLB. That said, given the nature of the sniping and back-biting (i.e. insults and generally uninformed commentary), I can understand why he did respond. At the end of the day, the guy's a professional and he took offense to being $hit all over about the content of a column on sports logo/uniform design.

[DEAD!]

However, many of the responses contain such level-headed (sarcasm fully intended) remarks as:

This guy's a "Grade 'A' moron"...

I believe I was the one who said that. What I said WAS somewhat sarcastic. If the guy has the ability to write his columns in an insightful and, in the case of uni watch, a very entertaining manner then I can admit, he's not a moron at all. He's being paid for something that we would all love to do. I think he's the kind of guy who can give as good of a critique as anyone because he is like every fan in that he's not a professional desginer of any sort. That's the type of person we SHOULD be targetting when designing logos.

Maybe I was more referring to his taste when I said he's a grade A moron, but hey, in a somewhat informal message board, I can say that. It wouldn't be as entertaining or even insightful if I just gave a poltically-correct opinion.

Despite all that we have said here, there are probably a lot worse bickering going on in other boards, and I have seen some of them.

[slapshot]

I've been reading Paul Lukas' (rhymes with tuchus?) column since the link was posted on the SSUR. So this is back when he was writing for the Village Voice. I'm not real familiar with that paper, but from what I've heard about it, it's similar here in Boston to the Boston Phoenix. It caters to an alternate lifestyle (not necessarily a gay lifestyle, but not exactly mainstream either). But an article that would get published in either paper would not automatically be labeled as "satire" or be any less credible than one in any of the other dailies in either New York or Boston.

So when Mr. Lukas writes the article about the future Washington team's logo and uniforms, it did not come across as tongue-in-cheek. He came across as ESPN's resident fashion critique, more or less. And when he mentioned this board and community, it certainly didn't do it to further a joke.

So now it's later in time, and he's received many submissions by members of this board, and from other people across the country, artists and non-artists alike. And the way he presents his "winners" leaves many of us wondering what was he thinking?

Conceptually, the winners were ok. Nothing ground-breaking, mostly contrived ideas (Revolutionary figure, an eagle with a bat). Craftsmanship aside, there was one entry which looked nice (in my opinion), but again, nothing that would knock my socks off.

But the way Mr. Lukas wrote the article, it comes across as a parody. Almost like "bait and switch". If you're going to ask people to legitimately submit entries and designs, but then only pick the worst of the bunch (figuratively), it makes you feel like Fox is running this "My Big Fat Obnoxious Contest".

Mr. Lukas has a right to his opinions. Everyone does. His forum is a column on the website of one of the largest sports portals online, our forum is this board, or our own blogs. But when he tries to "call us out" for venting about how his views seem out of touch with the majority of the people here, he comes across as hypocritical and ignorant. And if I knew that his "contest" was going to be the joke that it was, I wouldn't have sent it to him.

[TBGKon]

just a reminder, that if you would like to talk to Paul about anything about this, you can email him at the address posted at the end of my original post.....he is not a member on these boards yet but maybe if someone wants to be nice they could see if he has interest in joining

[CC97]

just a reminder, that if you would like to talk to Paul about anything about this, you can email him at the address posted at the end of my original post.....he is not a member on these boards yet but maybe if someone wants to be nice they could see if he has interest in joining

You heard the man, let's wine and dine this guy into the community