Reggie Bush get his wish? Wearing number 1?

[BlueSky]

Dunn has been much more than a third down back once given the chance to carry the load full time. He was forced to split carries in Tampa with Alstott and with Duckett his first year in Atlanta but he has emerged as a pretty legit #1 back in the league. I believe he has been performing on an pro bowl  level the last three years or so. If Bush plays as well as Dunn has or for as long as Dunn has he'll be doing pretty well but with all the media hype around him if he does'nt have the greatest rookie season ever for a RB and continue that for the rest of his career are people really going to call him a bust? That would be a shame.

If Bush's career mirrors Dunn's are they going to call him a bust? Yes. Dunn is a nice player. He's MAYBE a top five back in the NFC... maybe. If Bush isn't among the top two or three for most of his career, then he will be considered a bust.

How many players drafted in rounds 1 and 2 AREN'T considered a bust? For example, name the overall #1 pick in 1991. Russell Maryland. Maybe a solid player but not in the Reggie White mold.

Championship teams usually build through making great picks in the mid- to late-rounds (a certain 6th-rounder named Brady comes to mind) and relatively few first and second rounders live up to the hype. Go back a few years and review those rounds. There will be a lot of "never heard of him," "what happened to him?" and "whoa, that pick cost some scout or GM his job."

With the way the media blows this stuff up FAR beyond life size, NO player will ever be able to live up to the hype, so give that up and hope the guy can at worst play well and at best dominate for a few years.

And if Reggie Bush emulates Warrick Dunn in this way, he'll be a winner in more ways than one.

[ivan26278]

i read that he had to add a 2 to the 5 giving us jersey 25

[BBM]

Dunn has been much more than a third down back once given the chance to carry the load full time. He was forced to split carries in Tampa with Alstott and with Duckett his first year in Atlanta but he has emerged as a pretty legit #1 back in the league. I believe he has been performing on an pro bowl  level the last three years or so. If Bush plays as well as Dunn has or for as long as Dunn has he'll be doing pretty well but with all the media hype around him if he does'nt have the greatest rookie season ever for a RB and continue that for the rest of his career are people really going to call him a bust? That would be a shame.

If Bush's career mirrors Dunn's are they going to call him a bust? Yes. Dunn is a nice player. He's MAYBE a top five back in the NFC... maybe. If Bush isn't among the top two or three for most of his career, then he will be considered a bust.

How many players drafted in rounds 1 and 2 AREN'T considered a bust? For example, name the overall #1 pick in 1991. Russell Maryland. Maybe a solid player but not in the Reggie White mold.

Championship teams usually build through making great picks in the mid- to late-rounds (a certain 6th-rounder named Brady comes to mind) and relatively few first and second rounders live up to the hype. Go back a few years and review those rounds. There will be a lot of "never heard of him," "what happened to him?" and "whoa, that pick cost some scout or GM his job."

With the way the media blows this stuff up FAR beyond life size, NO player will ever be able to live up to the hype, so give that up and hope the guy can at worst play well and at best dominate for a few years.

And if Reggie Bush emulates Warrick Dunn in this way, he'll be a winner in more ways than one.

Obviously character and community help is above all sports (especially in New Orleans where they need it most). And I do agree many number ones are busts... but how many players (even in recent years) have come out with the expectation level as this guy has? Obviously not Alex Smith, nor Eli Manning or even Carson Palmer. This guy is hyped beyond hype here.

That alone is why the Texans are such a pathetic mess. Even if Mario Williams turns out to be Reggie White... who's going out of their way to go to Texans games to see a DL?? Bush SELLS TICKETS, if nothing else. Football is a business, and if you want to get people excited about your team, draft the most exciting player to come out of college in 15 years!

No wonder the GM resigned.

[ShaftDu]

i am still confused on how a guy like Mario who wasn't a blimp on anyone's rader went to 1 based on the combines. I think the texans were afraid to draft Bush.

[paynomind]

Wow, so much to talk about here:

First, yes, if ANY NFL player steps up in his community like Warrick Dunn, than he will be a hero and worthy of all of our respect.

When I said compare him to Dunn, I didnt mean Falcon Dunn, who had become a pretty dependable, top-level-ish back. I meant Buc Dunn, who was good for just under 1k yards, and a handfull of TDs, and 6-10 kick returns. Shify, quick, but playing BEHIND a guy who gets the ball when the game counts. Thats exactly what Bush is gonna be for a number of years. But, thats not what fans or sportswriters expect.

Look, I'm not saying the kid isnt good, i'm saying the expectations are TOO HIGH.

Defense wins championships. Anyone heard that? A shifty, small RB who can retun kicks may put butts in the seats THIS year, what assures years of high attendance better than playoffs? A more solid defense changes a 3-13 team into a 8-8 team. Look at Texans final scores from the last season. SEVERAL games could have changed on a couple "punts-instead-of-FGs" and some "FGs-instead-of-TDs." A solid DE with a motor could give you a coupel of those. If they add some strength on the O line, this team could have a turn around.

The simple fact is, the Texans OFFERED reggie bush a contract. A generous one. One in the range of what Alex SMith got last year, but he wanted more. So, the Texans offered it to the next guy on their list, a player in a aposition that they ACTUALLY NEEDED. And he took it.

The Texans didnt even need an RB. Or a QB. Or WRs, or DBs. They needed DL and OL. Not exactly the type of thing that gets people excited until you start winning. And OL is best found in trades and free-agent signings. So, whats that leave? Mario Williams, exactly.

Again, its all about expectations, and folks (in my opinion) need to check some expectations.

[BBM]

The simple fact is, the Texans OFFERED reggie bush a contract. A generous one. One in the range of what Alex SMith got last year, but he wanted more. So, the Texans offered it to the next guy on their list, a player in a aposition that they ACTUALLY NEEDED. And he took it.

The Texans didnt even need an RB. Or a QB. Or WRs, or DBs. They needed DL and OL. Not exactly the type of thing that gets people excited until you start winning. And OL is best found in trades and free-agent signings. So, whats that leave? Mario Williams, exactly.

The Texans vehemently deny ever offering Bush a contract, that Willians was their number one choice all along. So, anything else is just conjecture.

And Domanick Davis is NOT a great back. He's barely a good back. The Saints have a much better RB in McAllister than the Texans do, yet New Orleans drafted--and signed--Bush. Defense may win championships, but it's not like Houston was one DE away from making a serious run at anything. Plus Bush would've brought fannies to the seats, something Mario won't do.

[paynomind]

OK, let?s talk about this bet.

You say let?s set the over-under at the best first-overall RB pick performance. Fair enough.

If you want to go #1 picks, your RB selection is this:

(rushing yards-rushing TDs, receiving yards-receiving TDs)

Ki-Jana Carter 264-8 169-1

Bo Jackson 554-4 136-2

George Rogers 1674-13 126-0

Billy Sims 1303-13 621-3

Earl Campbell 1450-13 48-0

Ricky Bell 436-1 88-0

O.J. Simpson 697-2 343-3

Tucker Frederickson 659-5 177-1

This list continues, but I can?t imagine previous to 1965 would be much use to our debate. So that gives us the best as George Rogers, Billy Sims, and Earl Campbell. Wow, heck of a group of guys to compare someone to. But, that?s what the fans and the media have seemed to want to do; hold this kid to the highest of standards, so let?s continue. Do you value the rushing yards over the passing? Then George is your man. Combined? Billy Sims is the guy there. Earl had strong numbers, but he doesn?t win in any statistical category, save his tie in TDs (Wow, all with 13 rushing TDs. Strange!) So, let?s drop Earl. I?d say that Reggie?s usefulness will be his versatility, even running him out of the slot, so let?s go with combined numbers, so Reggie doesn?t lose any year-end receiving stats.

Billy Sims, 1924 total yards, 16TDs. This includes no return yards, which Reggie may accumulate, but for this argument we aren?t gonna talk about it. No one is proclaiming him the best return man ever, they are calling him the best RB, so let?s talk about that.

If you want to take RBs as rookies of the year, the list is far larger. Rather than detail it here, I'll tell you the stats leader among them is Eric Dickerson. 1,808 yards and 18 TDs; he also caught 51 passes for 404 yards and another two TDs

Dickerson - 1808-18 404-2 for a total of 2212-20.

So, there are your choices. Which guy do you expect Reggie to outshine?

Dickerson with 2212-20

Or

Billy Sims with 1924-16

Remember, these are rookie years we are talking about, not best years ever for a RB. Dickerson also holds the single-season rushing record with 2,105. Add his receiving yards that year and you get 2244. Though the best season ever for an RB was Marshall Faulk?s 1999 season when he had 1381 rushing, and 1048 receiving for a total of 2429.

But we are talking about rookies here.

Something to keep in mind is that Bush isn?t coming to the league fully matured. He was a Junior last year. Born Mar 2, 1985 Bush is 21 years old. Dickerson was 23. Sims was 25. So, Bush is young.

But do you want to know the one stat that amazes me the most, and makes my answer to the question "Will Bush be a bust" a certain ?Yes,? and might make your ?Depends? into a ?Yes? as well?

Reggie Bush, USC, 2005 ? 1658-15 383-2 for a total of 2041-17

If Reggie Bush puts up the exact same numbers from last year, with USC and their stout O-line, against the likes of Hawaii (USC scored 63) Arkansas (70) Washington (51) Washington State (55) Stanford (51) UCLA (66) he wouldn?t pass Dickerson, and would only just exceed Sims.

How many times did NFL teams score over 50 in a game last year? Twice. Washington at San Fran put up 52. The other? Well, in an odd coincidence, it was a Saints game, but it was Green Bay who put up 52 on New Orleans. USC last year scored over 50 six times to get Bush his numbers. The whole NFL only went over 50 twice, and New Orleans, Bush?s new team, only managed a season high output of 31. So, based on that, it doesn?t look like Bush is going to get the same type of output from his new team. If he could only just exceed Sims on a team that averaged 50 points a game, he surely won?t do it on a team that never exceeded 31.

Will Bush disappoint those who expect him to have the greatest rookie season ever? Looks like a resounding ?Yes? to me. I think I?m gonna win this bet.

[lilgump]

Not saying Bush will put up those numbers, because I dont think we will be THAT good, but he only played 13 games last year right? So you get to add 3 more games to that total. Maybe take all the high scoring games and conclude he could do what he did in those in 3 extra games. Then maybe he could do what he produced in college. I dont think he will, but I think he will still be exciting to watch every week.

[paynomind]

So, somebody give me some numbers they think he will put up. Give me a previous rookie whose Bush's first season will mirror.

[BlueSky]

You missed another irony...George Rogers put up those numbers wearing the fleur-de-lis. Another woulda-coulda-shoulda for the Saints; ended up with a coke problem if I remember correctly. Shame. I had season tickets that year and remember him going about 75 yards for a touchdown against the Cardinals on opening day. Great uni's then BTW...

Thanks for researching the numbers. There's one caveat though - all those backs were THE back in their offense and Bush will share time with Deuce and be used in different ways (as a WR and so on). How do we account for that?

[paynomind]

Well, for one, I think that the fact he wont be THE back on the team is part of the reasons I say people's expectations should be tempered.

His use as a WR is accounted for in including receiving yardage equally to rushing, rather than 1/2 like in fantasy sports.

Honestly, I'd have drafted Bush if I was in charge of an NFL team. But I'd have picked him early second round as a slot receiver.

OK, so I lob back to you.. what is your over/uder number for Bush?

[themightyspitz]

Why is this topic still alive? People, it's a number.

[-kj]

Why is this topic still alive? People, it's a number.

You've got over a hundred posts here... and yet you post this? C'mon, you're missing the entire point of these boards if you wonder such things.

[BlueSky]

Why is this topic still alive? People, it's a number.

It's still alive because paynomind and I are going to the mat over whether Reggie will live up to the hype/expectations. See, discussion forums, surprisingly, are for discussion, and that's what we're doing.

[BlueSky]

Well, for one, I think that the fact he wont be THE back on the team is part of the reasons I say people's expectations should be tempered.

His use as a WR is accounted for in including receiving yardage equally to rushing, rather than 1/2 like in fantasy sports.

Honestly, I'd have drafted Bush if I was in charge of an NFL team. But I'd have picked him early second round as a slot receiver.

OK, so I lob back to you.. what is your over/uder number for Bush? 

OK, how about this. He's being compared to Gale Sayers, so I've taken his rookie numbers and extrapolated them to 16 games (they only played 14 in 1965). Here's how that came out:

...............................Sayers (14 g)..........Bush (projected over 16 g)

Rushing yds/TDs .....867 / 14.................990 / 16

Receiving yds/TDs .....507 / 6.................579 / 7

Returns* yds/TDs .....898 / 2................1026 / 2

Total ........................2303 / 22..............2595 / 25

* Combined punt and kickoff returns

You good with that? Of course the return stats may have to be limited or ignored if the Saints don't use him in that role.

[pooter]

FBI investigating firm that tried to recruit Reggie Bush, lawyer says

SAN DIEGO (AP) - The FBI has opened an investigation into a fledgling San Diego sports marketing firm that tried to recruit Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush, the attorney for the football star's family told The Associated Press Wednesday.

Attorney David Cornwell of Atlanta said FBI agents interviewed him about "potential federal crimes" last week by phone. Cornwell said he intends to make Bush and his parents available to the FBI.

San Diego attorney Brian Watkins, who represents New Era, said in April he plans to sue Bush's parents for $3.2 million. Watkins said Bush's parents owed $54,000 in rent for the year they lived in Michaels' house.

Looks like Reggie has something else to worry about instead of wearing #5 or #25.

[batman1211]

Looks like Reggie has something else to worry about instead of wearing #5 or #25.

Well you got us there.

The Saints season is over.

No need for uniforms!

The NFL might as well fold.

Since this is a sports logo page why the hell are you bashing Bush over something that is outside the scope of SPORTS LOGOS???

[pooter]

Looks like Reggie has something else to worry about instead of wearing #5 or #25.

Well you got us there.

The Saints season is over.

No need for uniforms!

The NFL might as well fold.

Since this is a sports logo page why the hell are you bashing Bush over something that is outside the scope of SPORTS LOGOS???

It did...

It mentioned him wearing #5 or #25.

...and besides, Reggie Bush is selfish and deserves what he gets.

[TheStoicPaisano]

Here's Jim Otto on LeCharles Bentley's request to wear 00 to honor him.

CAM INMAN: INSIDE THE NFL

Bentley's plan to wear '00' gets 86'd by Raiders' Otto

Uniform No. 00, made sacred by Raiders legend Jim Otto, is staying safe on the shelf for another season. That's just the way Otto wants it. No, it's the way he demands it.

Cleveland Browns center LeCharles Bentley petitioned the NFL to change its strict policy on uniform numbers so he could bring "00" out of hibernation and pay homage to Otto. The NFL said no last month, opting not to alter its number system and consequently denying the fellow request of New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush to suit up in his USC No. 5.

Otto called Bentley's "00" pursuit "ridiculous." Then came stronger words from the Hall of Fame center, whose "00" became ingrained in Raiders lore via his 1960-74 playing career.

"To let him wear my number, that I built into a legacy, all it takes is one ounce of coke up his nose and that legacy is gone," Otto said last week in Livermore at a Raiders' golf tournament benefiting Special Olympics.

"I don't know who he is. I played 15 years with the Raiders. He's played, what, three or four years in New Orleans? What kind of legacy would he give double zero? I don't think he should wear it and I don't think anyone in the NFL should wear it."

Otto didn't seem to be implying that Bentley is a drug user, rather Otto was pointing out how a foolish act could damage the "00" image he worked so hard to build. Otto holds the franchise record with 210 consecutive starts and played in 308 games if you count preseason, playoff and all-star games.

Bentley is no slouch, though. He's made the Pro Bowl in two of his four seasons, all of which were with the Saints. A second-round draft pick out of Ohio State, Bentley played two seasons at right guard before returning to his natural spot at center.

"In terms of who LeCharles is, you can make a strong argument he's the best center in the NFL. I don't think he'd tarnish the image (of "00")," Bentley's agent, Neil Schwartz said. "He'd enhance the image and explain the story of 'OO' to kids. Kids today might not know who Jim Otto is. If anything, Charles would know the responsibility of what it would mean to wear 'OO.'"

Bentley, a Cleveland native, wore a "00" Browns jersey at his introductory press conference in March after signing a six-year, $36 million deal, touted as the richest ever for a center. He's also had "00" over his locker this offseason, even though he's No. 57 on the team's Web site.

Bentley turned down an interview request, as he's done with Cleveland-area reporters regarding the jersey issue.

An NFL spokesman said Bentley would not even be allowed to wear "00" in exhibition games because of the league's jersey-numbering system, which began in 1973. The system forbids anyone from wearing "00" or "0," so if you want those numbers, hit the roulette table. The last player to wear "00" was wide receiver Kenny Burrough, who played from 1970-81 and was grandfathered to wear the goose eggs since he had that number prior to 1973.

The NFL's competition committee recommended against number changes for this season but might look into it again in October, committee co-chair Rich McKay said at last month's owners' meeting in Denver.

"There's no real sentiment yet on the committee that there will ever be a change of the system or that there's any need to have a change," McKay said.

Offensive linemen are assigned numbers 50 to 79.

While Bush's quest -- or that of his marketers -- drew most of the attention regarding the jersey-number policy, the decision to keep "OO" out of reach shouldn't be forgotten, nor should Otto's legacy.

Otto, whose No. 00 reflected his palindromic name, relayed his strong feelings about his jersey number to Schwartz and declined to speak with Bentley about it.

Schwartz makes a strong case that Bentley has only the best intentions to wear "00," something Bentley conveyed before free agency.

Schwartz said Bentley told him: "One thing to negotiate is I want to wear '00' and I need management to support me on it. When I was younger, I was a huge Cleveland Browns fan. But I grew up watching NFL Films, and me being an offensive lineman, Jim Otto is who I wanted to represent."

Schwartz said the Browns backed Bentley, and he still holds out hope that Bentley someday will wear "00" so that another generation of fans can recognize Otto's body of work.

It's Otto's war-torn body, however, that gives him the right to fight for his number -- his "00" -- and defend it the way a Hall of Fame lineman protects a quarterback.

What an asshat.

[BBM]

Otto. Who's he to say who can and who can't use that number? It's not like he plays for the Raiders; then maybe he'd have a gripe. He doesn't own the damn number, he doesn't have a pattent on 00. I Hope the guy gets it now, because Otto's a douchebag.