I want to address the "high and mighty" thing.

[The_Admiral]

One of the few complaints that I've had about sports discussion here, a complaint that is evidently spreading to others, is this strange sort of "church lady" sentiment, for lack of a better term, that seems to arise in any case of sporting misconduct, from the flagrant to the frivolous. No matter what the offense is, the ideal punishment in many people's opinions is inordinately severe for the actual offense, e.g. Delmon Young throws a bat, Michael Barrett hits a douche, Single-A manager has a temper tantrum, and so on.

I'm not saying these are minor offenses, of course not. I'm talking about the difference between "wow what a jerk to assault an umpire, that's 50 games right there" and "Oh heavens, the game of baseball has been forever marred by this young punk's actions! FIFTY? Not even a HUNDRED is enough! Why, if I were commissioner, I would ban him...FOR LIFE!" Recently, we had "that manager is a stupid attention whore, he should be fined and suspended" versus "This is the equivalent of nuking an entire country!"

I think the first case that I remember someone else, namely joel fiasco, calling these guys out was after the NFL draft, in which Marcus Vick went undrafted. The question was posed, "would you roll the dice on Marcus Vick?" I said why not, pick him up for relative couch change, if he works out, big win, if he doesn't, small loss. This has basically been the business model for the Raiders, after all. Shockingly, a lot of people said they would never, eeeeever sign a hooligan like Vick! Think of what this will do to property values! At any rate, the Fins signed him, and apparently he's panning out fairly well as a wide receiver.

So for those of you here who have these certain draconian and puritanical views on pro sports, would you care to justify why you have them? Is it just a matter of not understanding how long a suspension should be for a given offense? Is it a highly idealistic view of the sporting world, in which any sort of misconduct that detracts from the purity of the game upsets you? To me, sometimes it seems like it's not a love of sports so much as a love for rules, and the subsequent enforcement of rules, as if there's something exciting about watching someone get punished, especially if it's a stiff punishment. So let's just discuss this particular stance so that next time Bobby Cox gets pissed off about a bad call and throws stuff on the field, we're not calling for him to be publicly drawn and quartered.

[paynomind]

I agree wholeheartedly with TCR here. Completely.

Some of you guys sound like such drama queens when stuff like this comes up. Try not to act so aghast. Players have been doing stupid stuff and getting fined for as long as their have been professional sports. It will continue.

[slapshot]

I am a 3-sport referee (baseball, basketball, football), so that's why I am somewhat harsh when it comes to punishments based on actions towards officials.

I am also from the school of "you make your own bed". If people are stupid enough to get into accidents that are caused by negligence, or lose jobs because they get caught with drugs, alcohol, or get charged with other felonies, I don't have any sympathy for them. I don't have to feel sorry for people who cause their own misfortune.

I spent 3 months on a grand jury hearing hundreds of different cases (it's different from a trial grand jury, which only hears one case). What I learned during that stint was that most things that happen are NOT random, and most can be avoided with common sense. If a lack of common sense causes something bad to happen to someone, oh well, hope they learned their lesson.

Do I sound harsh? Probably. I got through life fine, without any accidents or brushes with the law. It's really not that hard. But if you take some risks and chances and they come back to bite you in the ass, don't look for sympathy from me.

[FiddySicks]

Now my look at it may be a bit illogical, and I admit that.

My biggest thing with seeing guys throwing punches and getting off fairly easily after legal issues goes along the lines of the slippery slope. If he gets away with THIS, getting away with THAT cant be too far down the road. Its just worry mainly. And I know a fight is bound to happen every now and then, people get caught up in the heat of the moment. But just like in life, we all know its bound to happen and its not that big of a deal in the long run, but certain things have to be enforced. My biggest gripe with NHL hockey is the fighting. It takes away from the game, wastes everyones time, and doesnt set a good example for our youth. That goes along with the reason why I feel off the field issues should be dealt with more sternly. Young kids are extremely impressionable and can soak things up like a sponge. As a parent, the last thing I would want is for my young child to pick up a lack of respect for authority, and a violent outlook on life.

Illogical? Maybe a little bit.

Idealistic? Most definately. But arent sports supposed to play off some sort of idealism anyway?

[Gordie]

Hang 'em high, says I. Mercy is for the weak. Cobra Kai!

TCR, you know this board is largely populated by half-wits. Most of the opinions expressed here aren't even worth reading, let alone getting upset over.

That said, I'm a little disappointed. From the title, I thought this thread was going to be about sheep avatars.

[Jimmy!]

Suspension, fining, and even firing isn't too far out of line if you look at it as a job. Yes, they're role models, kids look up to them, blah, blah blah. But it's a job. These guys get paid to do what they do. If I went into my office one day, had a disagreement with a co-worker and took a swing at him, severe disciplinary action wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

If you do stupid stuff, on or off the field, expect consequences.

[DEAD!]

Hang 'em high, says I. Mercy is for the weak. Cobra Kai!

TCR, you know this board is largely populated by half-wits. Most of the opinions expressed here aren't even worth reading, let alone getting upset over.

That said, I'm a little disappointed. From the title, I thought this thread was going to be about sheep avatars.

I thought this was about athletes' obsession about thanking praising the Lord for their "God given talent)

TCR, If you're looking for an objective response to you argument, perhaps you should lay off stuff like "Michael Barrett hits a douche"

[paynomind]

So for those of you here who have these certain draconian and puritanical views on pro sports, would you care to justify why you have them?

You guys are missing the point of thi sthread. it isnt to discuss suspensions and fines. We all agree the guys who eff up should be suspended.

The question is, why all the drama and hate and extremism for every single event?

Is it a highly idealistic view of the sporting world, in which any sort of misconduct that detracts from the purity of the game upsets you?

[The_Admiral]

Re: Barrett hits a douche

It just flowed better, that's all.

[spyboy1]

That said, I'm a little disappointed. From the title, I thought this thread was going to be about sheep avatars.

Funny, I did too.

[WJMorris3]

Just to defend my viewpoints... anything that could cause the slightest tarnish to the sport... i.e. steroids, cheating, domestic abuse, arrests... should be punished with a lifetime ban. No exceptions - be he a perennial All-Star or a single-A player. It's the ONLY way to keep the sport clean.

[The_Admiral]

Okay, yeah, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Isn't a lifetime ban a tad excessive for a lot of things? That's like giving people the death penalty for shoplifting a bottle of Coke from 7-Eleven.

Again, nobody's saying bad deeds should go unpunished, it's the ridiculous degrees of punishment that some people here demand.

[VitaminD]

Again, nobody's saying bad deeds should go unpunished, it's the ridiculous degrees of punishment that some people here demand.

I'm just speculating here, because I don't consider myself part of the "holier than thou" subsegment in question.

Some of it may stem from jealousy. Many people would sell their souls for the privilege of being a professional athlete. For one, you play a child's game as a means of earning a living. For two, you're compensated obscenely well for doing so. For three, you obtain all the perquisites and bonuses that your job affords you: first-class charter travel, the finest hotels, the best restaurants, plenty of off-season time, beautiful women, nice cars, big houses. For four, you attain celebrity status because you can throw/hit/kick a ball better than the general population, which means you get even more free stuff. Many people who watch athletes behave as if they're outside the law resent the fact that they are rich and/or famous. The punitive measures taken by the leagues are a joke as well; if you're making $15 million a year, what pain is caused by a $20,000 fine, if you can make that in a couple of at-bats?

A lot of it, too, stems from people interposing themselves into these situations and realizing they can't get away with the same things. If I threw a projectile at someone I disagreed with at work like Delmon Young, I'd lose my job. Same rules apply if I got arrested for DUI, got busted for pot possession, brought a handgun to work, beat my wife or was insubordinate to too many people for too long a time. But athletes get away with it, and get paid many times over what I'll make in my best years in practice. Worse still, I represent my hospital, my group and my profession - just like athletes. My job makes me a role model in some definitions of the word, and part of my job is minding these obligations, and trying not to discredit my co-workers or my employers in the eyes of the community. Sports have an even greater civic association than the community hospitals where I practice, yet some of these athletes are oblivious to all the people who wear the jerseys and team gear, and live and die with the teams that pay them handsomely.

That's not to say that it's the players' fault that fans invest themselves emotionally in their teams. But the players get paid because people pay money to watch them do what they do, be it in person or on TV. Too many athletes consider pro sports their birthright rather than a privilege. Pro sports is a private enterprise, and they don't have to employ anyone they don't want to. But it can be frustrating watching a guy who's been handed everything in life on a platter do things that would cost him and his family dearly in other situations get away with it because he's an athlete.

Like I said, I don't consider myself an overly reactionary person, and it doesn't rankle me all that much that athletes are above the law in some cases. But I can understand why some people are rankled, and why they respond the way they do.

[The_Admiral]

Interesting perspective. I can see where you're coming from. (And no, I didn't have you in mind when I started the thread.) Still, though, it just gets to be so silly to read how ridiculously offended people get time after time. I know athletes can often be immature, belligerent, and above the law, but I've given up on all the "well if *I* did that at *MY* job..." stuff. Everything's relative, I guess.

[pcgd]

Interesting perspective. I can see where you're coming from. (And no, I didn't have you in mind when I started the thread.) Still, though, it just gets to be so silly to read how ridiculously offended people get time after time. I know athletes can often be immature, belligerent, and above the law, but I've given up on all the "well if *I* did that at *MY* job..." stuff. Everything's relative, I guess.

Just like how bad people get rediculously offended when a bad logo comes out.

I understand being upset or displaying displeasure, but the reactions of some people to a logo for a team they don't even root for is amazing. The reaction is like they went to get "Mom" tattooed on their arm and they put that terrible logo there instead.

I understand where you are coming from. I understand where everyone is coming from. (which is a real problem, I never take a stand) You aren't bigger than the sport. What Young did was terrible and it was an insult to the game. His suspension was most likely warrented. But at the same time, Juan Marichal hit John Roseboro IN THE HEAD WITH A BAT, and only missed 2 starts (If you don't follow baseball, Juan Marichal was a pitcher, so probably was suspended 10 games). This was only 40 years ago. I think one could say that there has been some over reactions with the suspensions as of late and not be all that out of line.

As for the manager in A ball's display...Lou Piniella, Earl Weaver, Tommy Lasorda. How many times did they do this exact same thing? I doubt they ever recieved a 7 game suspension, but I have no way to look that up.

[VitaminD]

Just like how bad people get rediculously offended when a bad logo comes out.

I understand being upset or displaying displeasure, but the reactions of some people to a logo for a team they don't even root for is amazing.  The reaction is like they went to get "Mom" tattooed on their arm and they put that terrible logo there instead.

The situation Pat's talking about, I never got either. But I don't know that they're necessarily comparable.

While I don't get all bent out of shape and demand public stonings and beheadings when people I don't know (and care about chiefly for their impact on the teams I follow) run afoul of the law or public decency, I can see why that rubs some people the wrong way. And I can at least rationalize where their righteous rage stems from. It's understandable to be envious or pissed off watching a guy my age, making 100 times my salary get arrested on felony charges, have the charges dropped (or "suffer" a slap on the wrist and an easily-paid fine) and keep his lucrative job/mansion/cars, because were I arrested on those same charges, my family would starve and my wife would toss me out on my ear before I did my time in jail.

Yet I can't find the same understanding for people who threaten marches on Nike headquarters for the latest Oregon football travesties, or publicly swear to boycott Team X indefinitely because they added a black drop-shadow to their weekend alternate BP jersey. A bad logo doesn't offend my sensibilities or make me envious of other people whose teams have "kewl" logos. No one heaps scorn on me personally and says I suck because my team's logo is crappy. And if I really don't like it, I can speak with my wallet and not buy the new merchandise. It took me years to warm to the Eagles' midnight green, and I don't own any 76ers stuff since they went to the black/gold (and oh yeah, red/white/blue... this is Philadelphia) look.

That said, I just can't bring myself to see these two situations as anywhere near similar, Pat. Allowing a poorly-designed logo to ruin your life is on an entirely different level than being resentful of athletes for their wealth and fringe benefits. I can't rationalize how or why anyone should be offended because a team decides to wear crappy colors, or trades in an iconic logo for something that's awful; I find the latter far more baffling and less defensible.

Wait a sec... when did I become defender of the people who are full of indignity over the impropriety of pro athletes? Y'all are on your own from now on!

[Hat Boy]

Shockingly, a lot of people said they would never, eeeeever sign a hooligan like Vick! Think of what this will do to property values!

This is something that someone projected on me after I said I wouldn't want Marcus Vick living in my neighborhood. I would like my neighbors to be good citizens, no matter their profession. I know there are plenty of players that had "character issues" in college and turned it around when they made the pros, but there are more guys like Maurice Clarett or Lawrence Phillips who were punks in college and continued to be punks into their adult life.

The Patriots have built a model of success using good players that are also good people. Vick has not been the former for any length of time and has yet to prove he can be the latter. Why bring that to camp just so he can back up Tom Brady?

When your team has won 3 out of the last 5 Super Bowls, you don't need to take risks like that.