Soccer player in trouble

[Stampman]

Check this out--it seems unbelievable

I'm not Catholic, and I don't live in an area of intense Catholic/Protestant rivalry, but still this seems extreme---

It is possible he did it to incite the crowd, but he have simply done it a sa personal thing.

As long as he's not doing blood sacrifices on the field--or something like that that would disrupt the game, what does it matter how he expresses his faith...

[slapshot]

I think it was only a matter of time before someone would cause problems by expressing his or her faith in public.

Granted, it's a farily benign gesture to perform the sign of the cross, but what is the point of doing it publicly anyway? Unless it's during a service, why must one perform an act of one's faith in public view?

Imagine the furor if a Satanist took out an inverted cross after scoring a goal. Or a Muslim got down in a crouch (the prayer usually performed on a small rug) to simulate parying to Mecca. Even though those examples would require a foreign object (as opposed to just one's hands used to sign the cross), the point is the same.

The whole "Praise the Lord" act after scoring has run its course, and just a way to show one's self as more devout than those around him. The same deity that allowed one player to score, has allowed one team to be scored upon. So signing the cross is, in a way, being thankful for one blessing at the expense of another.

Be thankful after the game, in private, in private reflection. Or do it at a service. Religion and faith have their own special buildings. Leave the fields and pitches for athletics.

[PaperAirplane31]

Or a Muslim got down in a crouch (the prayer usually performed on a small rug) to simulate parying to Mecca.

During the World Cup I saw some players from Ghana praying like that. I think it was Ghana, I'm not sure. But I definitely saw that kind of praying.

[Fred T. Jane]

Eh, Celtic-Rangers is about as visible of the seething Protestant-Catholic relations in Scotland as one can find. Methinks he did it as a calculated action to enrage Rangers' supporters (which did on cue). A sign of personal faith this was not.

(Fixed gaffe)

[Stampman]

As I said it depends how it was done, he may have made a big show about it to get under the Protestant fans skin--and thye may have over-reacted as well.

But if he just did it non chalantly in the course of players taking the field it could easily go unnoticed, and that is a line to draw.

If such action disrupts the game or is done to draw attention to oneself--it is out of place.

If it's just done as a matter of course without saying "Look at me!" or disrupting the game--then it's not a big deal, whether it's something I would do or not or would agree with or not. As I am not Catholic I don't cross myself, but neither would it bother me if he just did it.

Same for the Muslim, and even the satanist--I would disagree with them, but if it's not disrupting the game or drawiing undue attention, so what?

Still there is a judgment call to be made if it crosses that line (no pun intended.)

Apparently there is no video of the incident ion question.

On a lighter note--will they punish atheist players who do nothing?

[Fred T. Jane]

As I said it depends how it was done, he may have made a big show about it to get under the Protestant fans skin--and thye may have over-reacted as well.

Eh, as I stated above, this was in all likelihood a deliberate action to provoke the Rangers' supporters. Remember, even in post-Christian Scotland, the old Calvinist ways still ring true for a good proportion of the population. It's something I'd assume you'd be familiar with...

[Stampman]

As I said it depends how it was done, he may have made a big show about it to get under the Protestant fans skin--and thye may have over-reacted as well.

Eh, as I stated above, this was in all likelihood a deliberate action to provoke the Rangers' supporters. Remember, even in post-Christian Scotland, the old Calvinist ways still ring true for a good proportion of the population. It's something I'd assume you'd be familiar with...

Well, I'm not Scottish...

I realize this was done in a highly charged environment--and stated previously that I'd never lived in one--so there is a very good chance that was his intnention--it's also possible--even if it's the slimmest of possibilites it wasn't intended that way--either way it is possible many fans over-reacted.

And in sports this is nothing new--athletes do things in other teams buildings to incite them all the time.

It's part of some players personas and strategies...

[NJTank]

What a joke who was hurt by his damn sign of the cross. What idiots. Let him do his cross and get on with your life, hes Catholic so what life goes on yeesh.

Just for that I dedicate thsi to Ranger: In the name of the father the son and the holly spirit.

[CC97]

Just for that I dedicate thsi to Ranger: In the name of the father the son and the holly spirit.

Holly Spirit? I think I dated her in high school.... that chick was freaky. I knew she got around, but damn, Newark? She's moved on to the big leagues.

I dedicate this post to her as well.

But in all seriousness, I never understood the point of athletes doing it when they do... ala Curt Schilling... just play the dang game, if you feel the need to pray before the game then do it in the clubhouse, bullpen, dugout, tunnel, hotel room, washroom, whatever... but nah, it just so happens that the players always have to do it when all the television cameras are running.

[JQK]

Nothing wrong with doing the sign of the cross in the middle of a game.. it does nothing, offends no one. If you are offended by it? Tough :censored:. Deal and move on.

Now praising whatever lord you worship after EVERY post game interview? Yea, we can do without that... but hey, can't stop 'em. Shouldn't want to stop them.

Hearing the way some of the people on this board talk about religion and politics, i see more than a little hint of facisim. It scares me the way some of you guys think...

[gosioux76]

What a joke who was hurt by his damn sign of the cross. What idiots. Let him do his cross and get on with your life, hes Catholic so what life goes on yeesh.

Just for that I dedicate thsi to Ranger: In the name of the father the son and the holly spirit.

Seriously folks, this has to be put into context. As Fred T. Jane mentioned, the Celtic/Rangers rivalry in Glasgow is more than two local rivals. Catholics support Celtic, Protestants support Rangers. It's as much about religious divide as it is about football.

Put into that context, the goalkeeper's action was more about provocation than it was religious beliefs. And the criticism he's receiving, both from Rangers fans and local authorities, isn't because he made an act of faith in public.

It's because he was provoking an already charged crowd in one of the most heated rivalries in all of sports.

Let's not all jump on our religious soapboxes looking to cut down political enemies.

[DEAD!]

I really don't have a problem with athletes doing a cross or any religious gesture on a playing surface as long as they draw inspriation to themselves or maybe people around them after a game. Quite frankly, I could care less, I don't think Lord as any bearing on a team's performance to begin with.

But to use any kind of salute just to provoke a crowd, either of your team's or your own opponents is pretty borderline. It isn't just the Celtic-Rangers incident.

Look at other incidents like Paolo di Canio who has used the Nazi salute after a goal.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/4642716.stm

[CC97]

Nothing wrong with doing the sign of the cross in the middle of a game.. it does nothing, offends no one. If you are offended by it? Tough :censored:. Deal and move on.

I didn't say I was offended, I just pointed out that they just happen to do it when they know the TV cameras are on them.

[IceCap]

Jesus gets a sweet deal. He gets all teh credit when a team wins, but non of the blame when a team loses. Just once I want to hear someone say "Jesus made me fumble the ball in the fourth quarter. He hates our team."

Anyway, JQK, Tank, and Stampman make a good point. There's nothing wrong with showing faith during a sporting event. Now I'll go on record to say that I don't belive G-d cares one way or another who wins a sporting event, and He defenatly doesn't play a part in their outcomes. But if an athlete wants to thank Him for giving him or her the talent to succede on the professional level, then so be it.

The only thing I'm wondering...would people's opinions be different if a Jew or Muslim or Hindue showed signs of his/her faith during a sporting event? Personally I think that because the person in question made a Catholic (ie Christian) sign he gets blasted for it because his faith happens to be the faith of the majority, which people seem to like to attack, whatever it may be. I doubt the same response would follow a Jew or Muslim. People would probablly just say "it's great their showing their faith." But a Christian gets attacked. Double standard, and it's really an unfair one.

Nothing wrong with doing the sign of the cross in the middle of a game.. it does nothing, offends no one. If you are offended by it? Tough :censored:. Deal and move on.

I didn't say I was offended, I just pointed out that they just happen to do it when they know the TV cameras are on them.

Well to be fair, gestures of faith often follow a score, when the camras are on the player who scored.

[Fred T. Jane]

Well, I'm not Scottish...

...but you are Reformed.

[WelshSteeler]

The player in question,Artur Boruc,is a Polish Catholic and like most Catholic players he blesses himself on the pitch as a ritual every game - check Spanish ,Italian and a lot of other nations players who do the same.

He wasn't actually charged for this but for other "alleged "gestures made to the dumb Rangers fans still stuck in the 17th Century.

[DEAD!]

He wasn't actually charged for this but for other "alleged "gestures made to the dumb Rangers fans still stuck in the 17th Century.

... there were Rangers fans in the 17th century?

The only thing I'm wondering...would people's opinions be different if a Jew or Muslim or Hindue showed signs of his/her faith during a sporting event?

Personally no, but you do have to wonder about certain incidents in which faith and sports mix. For example, there was one incident during the 2004 Olympics in which an Iranian judoka forfeited a match against an Israeli and earlier this year when the Indonesia Federation Cup tennis team forfeited their tie against Israel.

[Stampman]

One thing I mentioned which hasn't had much response is how athletes will sometimes do something in the opposition's building to rile up the crowd.

If that's what he was doing, it is long use tactic, which can be in poor taste sometimes.

And fans can over react.

And it's not just players.

Don Cherry and Glen Sather engaged in such tactics as coaches...

(Just theirs didn't religious significance.)

And if a Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, Hindu, satanist etc ahs some inobtrusive thing they do--whatever--that's their business, just don't mess up the game.

As for doing it on camera the crossing in the story was not on camera and so there is no video/film of it.

[CZzyzx41]

You wanna cross yourself before a game in hopes of some blessing to come? No problem. Just do it in the tunnel. Society would feel much more comfortable if you would not force us to think about and doubt what we believe by expressing or giving any outside views or opinions. So, let's all just pretend we're atheist or at least don't care about God and then the world will be a better place. Don't force people to doubt their views because every view, no matter how much it conflicts with others, is true and correct and there's nothing wrong with it.

The motto of the world in the 21st century: Question nothing. Believe nothing.

[ROCHitman]

I play slowpitch softball and before every at-bat I draw a cross in the dirt next to the batter's box. It's just my way of re-affirming my faith. Never has anyone (teammates or opponents) told me that they were offended.