Rays seem ready to dump Devil

[BallWonk]

And, do they not see the irony of naming their team after the sun when they play in a dome?

(a dome that looks like the interior of someone's garage, I might add...)

Nothing personal, Smitty, but I find that to be the single most tiresome trope that is trotted out here with any regularity. It's worse than the [City] [Nickname] of [Other Location] jokes.

Naming a team after sunlight when that team plays indoors is no more ironic than naming a team after an undersea creature when that team plays on land.

But I hope that the Rays keep at least one foot firmly on the fish-ray theme even if they incorporate a sun-ray theme. No reason the team can't look to both for its identity, and keep the tank in the stands.

[powersurge]

I second that.

Its not like they are going to play in a dome for their entire existence. If we took that same thought process and applied it to say the Dodgers or Lakers....well....its been said enough....you get the point.

Atleast the sun will shine on the dome right?

[Gothamite]

I don't know that I can agree with you, since no teams play underwater (but most play outdoors in sunshine).

Still, I'll agree to retire it if we can also retire the [City] [Nickname] of [Other Location] jokes.

[Gothamite]

Its not like they are going to play in a dome for their entire existence.

Oh, I'll take that action....

[BallWonk]

Its not like they are going to play in a dome for their entire existence.

Oh, I'll take that action....

Oh, I think we can be pretty sure that the franchise's 2028 home opener will be in an open-air or retractable-dome stadium.

What we can't be sure of is whether the team's home in 2028 will be in the Tampa Bay area or, say, Portland or Memphis or something.

But there is no way that team will play one year more than required by its current relatively ironclad 30-year lease (1998-2027) at the Trop. Bankable propositions we can make about the 2028 MLB season:

1. New York will have at least two big-league teams;

2. Not one game of the Rays' thirty-first season will be played at the Trop.

[Gothamite]

What we can't be sure of is whether the team's home in 2028 will be in the Tampa Bay area or, say, Portland or Memphis or something.

Yep, that was pretty much what I was getting at.

I'd put it even earlier - by 2015 at the very latest, the team will be in negotiations to get out of their lease. Whether that means another location in St. Petersburg (no way the city fathers let them out of the lease to move to Tampa), or relocation to another market altogether.

I don't see how the franchise will be able to survive much past that in the Trop, if they can survive that long.

Then again, there's always bankruptcy. That could well allow them to break the lease.

[BallWonk]

What we can't be sure of is whether the team's home in 2028 will be in the Tampa Bay area or, say, Portland or Memphis or something.

Yep, that was pretty much what I was getting at.

I'd put it even earlier - by 2015 at the very latest, the team will be in negotiations to get out of their lease. Whether that means another location in St. Petersburg (no way the city fathers let them out of the lease to move to Tampa), or relocation to another market altogether.

I don't see how the franchise will be able to survive much past that in the Trop, if they can survive that long.

Then again, there's always bankruptcy. That could well allow them to break the lease.

They can negotiate all they want, and granted I'm not a contract attorney, but I think the team can be compelled to stay at the Trop through 2027. Except, of course, in the event of bankruptcy. But would the league allow a team to declare bankruptcy? Even a friendly Chapter 11 would expose a significant chunk of the league's books to public scrutiny, as well as giving the court some degree of independence regarding asset liquidation. MLB will be under different management in a few years, but I think the league's current power structure would be willing to let the Rays play in the Trop for the next 60 years to avoid letting a team declare bankruptcy and expose league finances to public scrutiny.

Or, more realistically, I see the current MLB management as being willing to pony up $120 million or so to buy out the lease at the Trop as part of a golden parachute for the current owners, which gets us to the 2015 timeframe you're talking about, and at some point that kind of cash would begin to make sense to the municipality to let the lease go.

Thinking out loud here, obviously. Probably the most interesting franchise to be watching, from a business of the game point of view, in the 2010s. And should the Trop be regarded as the last of the RFK generation of ballparks, which might otherwise be said to have ended with the Metrodome, or is it a unique case, its own abortive branch on the stadium family tree?

[xyzzyva]

But there is no way that team will play one year more than required by its current relatively ironclad 30-year lease (1998-2027) at the Trop. Bankable propositions we can make about the 2028 MLB season:

1. New York will have at least two big-league teams;

2. Not one game of the Rays' thirty-first season will be played at the Trop.

Off topic:

As much as I dislike New York's disproportionate share of media attention, I have always wished there would be a third team in NYC. Perhaps I just want to water down support for the Yankees... How about the new major league New York Knights, complete with Wonderboy patch on sleeve?

[Gothamite]

Name a professional sports franchise... after a movie? That'd be stupid.

They can negotiate all they want, and granted I'm not a contract attorney, but I think the team can be compelled to stay at the Trop through 2027. Except, of course, in the event of bankruptcy. But would the league allow a team to declare bankruptcy? Even a friendly Chapter 11 would expose a significant chunk of the league's books to public scrutiny, as well as giving the court some degree of independence regarding asset liquidation. MLB will be under different management in a few years, but I think the league's current power structure would be willing to let the Rays play in the Trop for the next 60 years to avoid letting a team declare bankruptcy and expose league finances to public scrutiny.

Or, more realistically, I see the current MLB management as being willing to pony up $120 million or so to buy out the lease at the Trop as part of a golden parachute for the current owners, which gets us to the 2015 timeframe you're talking about, and at some point that kind of cash would begin to make sense to the municipality to let the lease go.

Well, that was one of the things I was thinking about when I said "negotiations" - buy themselves out of the contract. Every contract can be broken, the only thing that varies is how much it might take.

As to bankruptcy, I don't know how the league would think about it. I suspect that, while it would be sticky for them, they might agree to it if it means undoing a huge mistake. If it's that or continue to throw money down the hole, they might be willing to allow a peek into the books.

Thinking out loud here, obviously. Probably the most interesting franchise to be watching, from a business of the game point of view, in the 2010s. And should the Trop be regarded as the last of the RFK generation of ballparks, which might otherwise be said to have ended with the Metrodome, or is it a unique case, its own abortive branch on the stadium family tree?

I think it's definitely among the bad old ballparks, not its own line at all, but not the last one. New Comiskey, which I consider to be the last of the old concrete monstrosities, came after it.

[BallWonk]

And should the Trop be regarded as the last of the RFK generation of ballparks, which might otherwise be said to have ended with the Metrodome, or is it a unique case, its own abortive branch on the stadium family tree?

I think it's definitely among the bad old ballparks, not its own line at all, but not the last one. New Comiskey, which I consider to be the last of the old concrete monstrosities, came after it.

Ranging far off topic, but I always considered New Comiskey, or whatever it's called now, to be its own abortive branch of the stadium family tree. Sort of an attempt to create a new kind of concrete monstrosity different from the concrete-bowl lineage of which RFK is an early acme (and of which the Metrodome is a roofed subspecies). But nobody has really followed the White Sox's attempt to put a human face on the concrete-block style, what with it being a complete failure and all. Or maybe New Comiskey is a failed descendant of the Kauffman Stadium genus? But that's just my personal taxonomy of ugly stadiums. You do make me lean toward considering the Trop a member of the same genus as RFK.

[TruColor]

I think the difference here is more with the end of the combo/multipurpose stadiums...which "new Comiskey" is not one of them.

The Trop however, was. Remember, the Lightning played there too...

[Gothamite]

Excellent points, all. I'll have to reconsider my taxonomy.

[So_Fla]

I think the difference here is more with the end of the combo/multipurpose stadiums...which "new Comiskey" is not one of them.

The Trop however, was. Remember, the Lightning played there too...

...and the Tampa Bay Storm also played football there.

[So_Fla]

double tap

[JPRays]

On that same token, aren't Yankee Stadium and Wrigley Field and AT&T Park all multi-purpose facilities also. The Giants once upon a time played at Yankee Stadium. The Bears once upon a time played at Wrigley. The Emerald Bowl is held at AT&T Park. I'm sure there are many more examples, but I just pointed out some obvious ones.

As someone who lives in St. Pete and has attended Storm, Lightning, Final Four, and Devil Rays games at the Trop, it is supposed to be a baseball only facility. It didnt feel right as a hockey rink, a mini football field, or a basketball arena. As its been pointed out in this thread, the Trop has gone through some major improvements over the past 2 years and is pretty fan friendly. I dont know about any of you but I worked for the St. Pete Devil Rays who played right down the road from the Trop in an outdoor facility and I'm 100% thankful for the dome. 90 degree heat with 100% humidity and 75% chance of thunderstorms is not a good combo for an outdoor game of baseball.

[marlinfan]

And should the Trop be regarded as the last of the RFK generation of ballparks, which might otherwise be said to have ended with the Metrodome, or is it a unique case, its own abortive branch on the stadium family tree?

I think it's definitely among the bad old ballparks, not its own line at all, but not the last one. New Comiskey, which I consider to be the last of the old concrete monstrosities, came after it.

Or maybe New Comiskey is a failed descendant of the Kauffman Stadium genus?

Bingo.

[jws008]

I think the difference here is more with the end of the combo/multipurpose stadiums...which "new Comiskey" is not one of them.

The Trop however, was. Remember, the Lightning played there too...

While I'm agreee with Pantone's point above, that the Trop was/is the last of the multipurpose stadia; I still think it is wrong to not consider New Comiskey to be among the old breed of stadia. It always seemed to me to be a combination of the worst of Kaufman Stadium (i.e.: a "UFO" surrounded by a massive parking lot), general modern multipurpose design (with the three tiers of luxury boxes making the front row in the upper deck further away than the back row of the upper deck in the old Comiskey), with touches of the renovated Yankee Stadium tossed in.

What made it particularly cruel is that the White Sox were given a proposal for a design called Armour Field, which was an attempt to build a "new classic" before Camden Yards came along. It was an attempt to integrate the design of the stadium into the neighborhood, including a plan to keep old Comiskey's infield as an urban park, fronting the new stadium. But the Sox wanted something modern, and new Comiskey is what they got instead.

If you ever want to see some of the design of Armour Field, find a book called Green Cathedrals, by Phillip Lowry, which instead of showing New Comiskey shows both model and drawings of Armour Field.

The irony is that ten-years later, the White Sox ownership would have killed to have a Camden Yards-type ballpark instead of the New Comiskey.

[TheOldRoman]

But nobody has really followed the White Sox's attempt to put a human face on the concrete-block style, what with it being a complete failure and all.

It wasn't a failure at all. It is obvious that if you believe it, you have never been there since the changes, and likely haven't even seen a game from the new version. I have been to many ballparks, and I can say that US Cellular is a nice park. It isn't AT&T, it isn't PNC, and it isn't Camden Yards. It doesn't matter. USCF if a downtown ballpark with lots of parking, which isn't that common. It's in a nice, budding neighborhood. It is more of a residential area, but there are still bars and restaurants within walking distance from the park. The park looks like a park (green seats and walls instead of bright blue). Bricks were added in many places, and the biggest change was the upperdeck. They took off several rows, and added an overhanging roof to make it more intimate. It is a great baseball experience. And to those who want to talk about the upperdeck - it still isn't as steep as Jacobs Field of Coors Field. Lots of changes have been made to the park to make it more "fan-friendly", and it is nothing like the massive, blue bowl that opened up in 1991. It may not be a "classical" or "classic retro" park, but it is still a great experience and a very successful conversion.

[ZapRowsdower8]

I went to USCF earlier this season for the first time. Its not that bad of a field, not bad at all really. It doesn't feel like the old donut stadiums, I should know what those are like having grown up going to 3 Rivers. The only complaint I had with the stadium is that they wouldn't let people from the upper deck go to any other part of the stadium.

Anyway, back on topic. I know this has been answered before, but when can we expect for the Rays to unveil the new look? During the post season? Closer to spring training? Somewhere in the middle?

[CubsFanBudMan]

It wasn't a failure at all. It is obvious that if you believe it, you have never been there since the changes, and likely haven't even seen a game from the new version. I have been to many ballparks, and I can say that US Cellular is a nice park. It isn't AT&T, it isn't PNC, and it isn't Camden Yards. It doesn't matter. USCF if a downtown ballpark with lots of parking, which isn't that common. It's in a nice, budding neighborhood. It is more of a residential area, but there are still bars and restaurants within walking distance from the park. The park looks like a park (green seats and walls instead of bright blue). Bricks were added in many places, and the biggest change was the upperdeck. They took off several rows, and added an overhanging roof to make it more intimate. It is a great baseball experience. And to those who want to talk about the upperdeck - it still isn't as steep as Jacobs Field of Coors Field. Lots of changes have been made to the park to make it more "fan-friendly", and it is nothing like the massive, blue bowl that opened up in 1991. It may not be a "classical" or "classic retro" park, but it is still a great experience and a very successful conversion.

Not sure if it means more or less coming from a Cubs fan, but what The Old Roman says is true, IMO. The Cell is not a bad place to watch a game at all... and it is even better now with the improvements.