Rays seem ready to dump Devil

[TruColor]

The proof is in the pudding. Tampa is a city FULL of transplants. And it's the transplants' fault that the attendance numbers are so bad. They refuse to stop cheering for their "old teams" UNTIL the Tampa teams start BEATING their "old teams". It is then, and ONLY then, that the Tampa team becomes the team that they "live and die" with.

That's a great point. I would like to make the case that the Phoenix metro area would also fall under that theory.

[Mac the Knife]

Good point...that being said, if the Pirates still can't draw a decent number of fans on a regular basis with some sort of history and legacy, then Tampa Bay doesn't have a chance.

Fact is though that in Pittsburgh the fans are pissed at ownership in the same way Devil Ray fans were pissed at Naimoli in Tampa: they see a team being operated on the cheap, and want to see at least some commitment to putting forth a winning product before supporting it with their dollars. Once that commitment's there, be it in Pittsburgh or Tampa, the fans will be there.

[Gothamite]

I don't think you can really blame it all on Naimoli - the team had attendance problems from the start.

Besdies, he's been gone for a couple years. He can't be the scapegoat any more.

[powersurge]

Would you morons PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE stop comparing Tampa/St Pete to Miami?

PLEASE?

Miami is NOT a part of Florida....and is neck and neck with Atlanta as the worst sports town in sports.

As for our attendance issues, just win. The Tampa area has proven, with 3 1/2 other teams (Bucs, Lightning, Bulls, Storm) that if you win, the people will come....................and stay.

1) The Bucs had (and still do) the worst winning % of any team in any sport, and the attendance showed. They started winning, and the fans all jumped on the bandwagon. Now they sucked for a few years, and the fans are STILL there.

2) The Lightning were the 1st team EVER to lose 50 games in a season for 4 consecutive seasons, and the attendance showed. They started winning, and the fans jumped on the bandwagon. Now they've been an average team the last 2 years, and the fans are STILL there.....in droves. (Check the NHL attendance for '05 and '06)

3) The Bulls started playing Div 1-A football in '01, in an area with DEEEEEEEEEEEP rooted UF, FSU, and UM fans. The average attendance was about 30-35,000 until this season. 2 straight sellouts, and another above 50,000 (the latter, after they lost 3 straight). Again proving that Tampa jumps on the bandwagon, and once they come, they stay.

3 1/2) The Arena League Storm were once THE model franchise and their attendance numbers showed. Now that they've sucked for a few years, the attendance numbers are still in the top half of the league.

The proof is in the pudding. Tampa is a city FULL of transplants. And it's the transplants' fault that the attendance numbers are so bad. They refuse to stop cheering for their "old teams" UNTIL the Tampa teams start BEATING their "old teams". It is then, and ONLY then, that the Tampa team becomes the team that they "live and die" with.

It's happened before, and it'll happen again.

Go Sunshines.....I mean Fish.......I mean Rays..........I mean......... . Go Tampa Bay Baseball team!!

First off, a person who calls someone else a "moron" while trying to post here is probably referring to themselves. No need to get personal buddy. Honestly, even if you made a valid point, starting it off in the nature that you did pretty much negates most of what you wrote.

Second, if you read the post carefully you'd understand that I was referring to the BASEBALL market...not FOOTBALL market, not ARENA FOOTBALL market (which is ridiculous to even bring up such a thing, because supporting an arena team has nothing to do with supporting a BASEBALL franchise) I also wasn't talking about college sports....or a HOCKEY market. I was speaking of BASEBALL. If you held back your obvious passion for the area and kneejerk response to defend your beloved Tampa Bay you might realize what I was saying. Show me some numbers and some specific baseball examples that defend your team's right to keep their franchise and we'll talk. As it stands they've done nothing in any way to exemplify being a vaible baseball market.

It takes more than just a few thousand passionate fans and good players for a SMALL market to successfully support a baseball team. Just because a city can fill a 16-18 thousand seat arena for a minor league football league or hockey team doesn't mean it can successfully host 81 baseball games in a 35-40 thousand seat stadium, make a profit, and compete in MLB against large markets like New York, Boston or LA.

Don't like the comparison to Miami? Do you realize that Miami is a larger television and sports market than Tampa Bay? Do you also realize that it is much higher profile city than Tampa or St.Petersburg? If baseball can't make it there and baseball is suffering in Tampa Bay as well, is it much of a stretch to compare the two Florida markets?

You know what? maybe you're right....we shouldn't compare the two markets because Tampa/St.Pete shouldn't be able to hold a candle to Miami. So I beg your pardon on that one

Its okay to be passionate about a team, a city, or a sport....but don't let that passion blind you to the obvious facts.

[dahatman]

Good point...that being said, if the Pirates still can't draw a decent number of fans on a regular basis with some sort of history and legacy, then Tampa Bay doesn't have a chance.

Here's one important difference: Within living memory, the Pirates have fielded good teams. Attendance is down, yes, but it's down after something like a generation of uninterrupted suckage.

The Rays have yet to try fielding a successful team for a few consecutive years. So we really don't know whether it's possible for the Tampa/St. Pete metro to support a big-league franchise. Even the Yankees suffer poor attendance if they play losing baseball regularly enough; witness the Twins outdrawing the Yankees in the 1980s.

I don't for a minute expect that the Rays would have decent attendance even if they were in a pennant race three seasons in a row; that is a city that should never have been awarded a big-league franchise. But it's an as-yet unanswered question, and it's at least possible that a winning Rays team could draw sufficient fans to support the team at a level that would allow long-term competitiveness.

All good points...but here are a couple of good reasons why I think that major league baseball wasn't meant to be in Florida other than Spring Training:

1. The cross state Marlins won TWO WS titles in their existence and have similar if not arguably WORSE troubles successfully supporting a ML team. I lived in South Florida the last time the Marlins won it all...let me tell you, they couldn't give away tickets to see the team. They even went to such great lengths to bring fans to the ballpark by becoming the first and last baseball team to have cheeleaders....yes.....cheerleaders. The only time they packed the stands that year was for the NLCS and WS games. You can argue that in some of those WS games there were more Yankee fans than Marlins fans in Dolphin Stadium.

2. The D-Backs came into baseball at the same time as the Rays and have been pretty successful in all aspects of baseball; winning, making money, and building a quality ballpark (I've been there, its actually a lot nicer than you think...especially when you sit near the pool ) Yet the Rays haven't ever gotten anything right.

3. There is probably a third reason I had in mind...but its late and I'm heading home so two will have to do.

You are 100% correct. Back in the 80's when St. Pete was going to building the Trop in the hopes of landing an expansion or relocating franchise, Comissioner Ueberroth strongly suggested that they do not. He felt that the only viable market would the Orlando area. The Marlins are failing for a number of reasons. First, they seemed destined to get a stadium in Miami (Downtown or Orange Bowl site) and for the parents of little Jimmy and Jane who live in West Palm Beach do not want to drive 1.5-2 hours to get to a stadium. The stadium will not be a destination place (shops, restaurants, etc.) so people are only going for the game. Second, the marketing department does not know how to market themselves (ie. cheerleaders). Finally, David Samson has suffered from foot-in-mouth disease so many times that he is turning off the fans.

The Rays are trying to come back from years of poor marketing and management decisions and seems to be heading in the right direction. Unfortunately, they are in a division with the Yankees and Red Sox so it will be difficult to compete but not impossible.

As for the D-Backs and Rockies, they cemented their financing/stadium deal before they ever played a game, so they have a distinct advantage

[Waffles]

The Onion: Tampa Bay Devil Rays Change Name, Uniform, Sport

[powersurge]

The Onion: Tampa Bay Devil Rays Change Name, Uniform, Sport

That's priceless.

They are distinugishing themselves AWAY from "the practice of hitting and catching baseballs"

LOL!

[BigShoop]

First off, a person who calls someone else a "moron" while trying to post here is probably referring to themselves. No need to get personal buddy. Honestly, even if you made a valid point, starting it off in the nature that you did pretty much negates most of what you wrote.

ok, i'll begin tearing your argument apart startiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing now.

Second, if you read the post carefully you'd understand that I was referring to the BASEBALL market...not FOOTBALL market, not ARENA FOOTBALL market (which is ridiculous to even bring up such a thing, because supporting an arena team has nothing to do with supporting a BASEBALL franchise) I also wasn't talking about college sports....or a HOCKEY market. I was speaking of BASEBALL. If you held back your obvious passion for the area and kneejerk response to defend your beloved Tampa Bay you might realize what I was saying.

Well, I'll start off with the obvious in that 13 of the 18 Grapefruit League teams train in the greater Tampa Bay area(within a 1 hour drive)....with the other 5 on the southern east coast. Go ahead and check out those attendance numbers if you wish... ( http://springtrainingmagazine.com/history6.html )

2ndly, whats the difference if our sports team is a baseball team or a football team or a hockey team?! You agree with me that the entire area is full of transplants, do you not? Do those "northern people" not enjoy baseball as well? I dont understand where you're trying to go with this....Are you saying that you have your finger on the pulse of a city you dont live in? Do you fully understand the Latin influence in this area? Are you saying that a town which broadcasts all 162 games of TWO separate teams on radio, does NOT have a demand for the game of baseball?

Might I point you to this wikipedia entry?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Dev...Before_the_Rays

Tampa/St Pete IS a baseball market, it's just not a RAYS market......yet.

Proof? Check the attendance when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town. As I said in my original post, Tampa is a town that has to wait for it's teams to consistently start beating the northern teams before those "diehard northern team" fans switch their allegiance to their "new home team". It's the nature of the beast......and the beast (the Rays) hasnt started beating them yet.

More proof? In 2004, the Rays had a 12 game winning streak in the month of June. Yes, it's a small sample, but it proves my point of "if you win, they will come". The 1st 5 games of the winning streak were normal attendance figures considering they played the Giants and Rockies at home:

25,395

10,630

9,280

11,299

11,227

As the streak gained momentum, a buzz(for the 1st time) started swirling around the area. Unfortunately, the rest of the winning streak happened in Petco, Bank One, and Skydome. After winning 13 out of 14 games, the Rays returned home and the attendance for the next 3 games was:

25,157

28,361

23,442 (where they got crushed 11-4, and the fans basically said "same ol' Rays!"....and stopped coming to the park again)

Are these HUGE attendance numbers? Of course not. But, it was also the 1st time they had been over .500(ever.) that late into the season(37-36 record on June 28). A 12,000-19,000 spike in fans, for a .500 team, is a large number for a city who doesnt give a damn about the game of baseball.

Show me some numbers and some specific baseball examples that defend your team's right to keep their franchise and we'll talk. As it stands they've done nothing in any way to exemplify being a vaible baseball market.

It takes more than just a few thousand passionate fans and good players for a SMALL market to successfully support a baseball team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TV_ma...or_sports_teams

If by "SMALL", you mean "13th in the nation" or "3 spots higher than Miami", then I'll go along with your argument. Also of note, Orlando is 19th...and the Tampa sports teams DO draw fans from that area(and all areas in between) as well.

Just because a city can fill a 16-18 thousand seat arena for a minor league football league or hockey team doesn't mean it can successfully host 81 baseball games in a 35-40 thousand seat stadium, make a profit, and compete in MLB against large markets like New York, Boston or LA.

Actually, the St Pete Times Forum holds a little more than you think. It's one of the larger arenas in the country. Damn assumptions...

http://www.icepalace.com/content.cfm?categ...amp;pageid=1107

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the Rays will sell out a 38,000 seat stadium 81 times a year. Then again, how many teams actually accomplish that? With as many things as there are to do in this city, it's just not going to happen. What I WILL say, however, is that when the Rays start winning, they will EASILY average 30,000. Why wouldnt they?!

Funny that you bring up the "profit" thing. Granted, the payroll is disgustingly low(for now...until Kazmir and the rest are locked up longterm), but the Rays led MLB in profit last year.

Don't like the comparison to Miami? Do you realize that Miami is a larger television and sports market than Tampa Bay?

Already proved that wrong.

Do you also realize that it is much higher profile city than Tampa or St.Petersburg?

City? Yes.

Sports city? No.

If baseball can't make it there and baseball is suffering in Tampa Bay as well, is it much of a stretch to compare the two Florida markets?

This is where you missed my original point.

Have you ever BEEN to Miami OR Tampa/St Pete?! As I said before, Miami is a different COUNTRY. It's hard to explain if you've never experienced it. Everything is different down there. It's a totally different lifestyle down there.

You know what? maybe you're right....we shouldn't compare the two markets because Tampa/St.Pete shouldn't be able to hold a candle to Miami. So I beg your pardon on that one

Its okay to be passionate about a team, a city, or a sport....but don't let that passion blind you to the obvious facts.

You're right. Facts are facts.

'07 avg attendance:

Devil Rays: 17,148

Marlins: 16, 919

Buccaneers: 65,238 (99.4% of capacity)

Dolphins: 71,200 (94.6%)

Lightning: 19,876 (3rd in the league)

Panthers: 15,370

USF football: 52,347

UM football: 43,589

[Gothamite]

Tampa/St Pete IS a baseball market, it's just not a RAYS market......yet.

Proof? Check the attendance when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town.

If that's true, it looks even worse for the market, that the pathetic attendance numbers are inflated by games against divisional rivals....

[powersurge]

First off, a person who calls someone else a "moron" while trying to post here is probably referring to themselves. No need to get personal buddy. Honestly, even if you made a valid point, starting it off in the nature that you did pretty much negates most of what you wrote.

ok, i'll begin tearing your argument apart startiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing now.

Second, if you read the post carefully you'd understand that I was referring to the BASEBALL market...not FOOTBALL market, not ARENA FOOTBALL market (which is ridiculous to even bring up such a thing, because supporting an arena team has nothing to do with supporting a BASEBALL franchise) I also wasn't talking about college sports....or a HOCKEY market. I was speaking of BASEBALL. If you held back your obvious passion for the area and kneejerk response to defend your beloved Tampa Bay you might realize what I was saying.

Well, I'll start off with the obvious in that 13 of the 18 Grapefruit League teams train in the greater Tampa Bay area(within a 1 hour drive)....with the other 5 on the southern east coast. Go ahead and check out those attendance numbers if you wish... ( http://springtrainingmagazine.com/history6.html )

2ndly, whats the difference if our sports team is a baseball team or a football team or a hockey team?! You agree with me that the entire area is full of transplants, do you not? Do those "northern people" not enjoy baseball as well? I dont understand where you're trying to go with this....Are you saying that you have your finger on the pulse of a city you dont live in? Do you fully understand the Latin influence in this area? Are you saying that a town which broadcasts all 162 games of TWO separate teams on radio, does NOT have a demand for the game of baseball?

Might I point you to this wikipedia entry?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampa_Bay_Dev...Before_the_Rays

Tampa/St Pete IS a baseball market, it's just not a RAYS market......yet.

Proof? Check the attendance when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town. As I said in my original post, Tampa is a town that has to wait for it's teams to consistently start beating the northern teams before those "diehard northern team" fans switch their allegiance to their "new home team". It's the nature of the beast......and the beast (the Rays) hasnt started beating them yet.

More proof? In 2004, the Rays had a 12 game winning streak in the month of June. Yes, it's a small sample, but it proves my point of "if you win, they will come". The 1st 5 games of the winning streak were normal attendance figures considering they played the Giants and Rockies at home:

25,395

10,630

9,280

11,299

11,227

As the streak gained momentum, a buzz(for the 1st time) started swirling around the area. Unfortunately, the rest of the winning streak happened in Petco, Bank One, and Skydome. After winning 13 out of 14 games, the Rays returned home and the attendance for the next 3 games was:

25,157

28,361

23,442 (where they got crushed 11-4, and the fans basically said "same ol' Rays!"....and stopped coming to the park again)

Are these HUGE attendance numbers? Of course not. But, it was also the 1st time they had been over .500(ever.) that late into the season(37-36 record on June 28). A 12,000-19,000 spike in fans, for a .500 team, is a large number for a city who doesnt give a damn about the game of baseball.

Show me some numbers and some specific baseball examples that defend your team's right to keep their franchise and we'll talk. As it stands they've done nothing in any way to exemplify being a vaible baseball market.

It takes more than just a few thousand passionate fans and good players for a SMALL market to successfully support a baseball team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TV_ma...or_sports_teams

If by "SMALL", you mean "13th in the nation" or "3 spots higher than Miami", then I'll go along with your argument. Also of note, Orlando is 19th...and the Tampa sports teams DO draw fans from that area(and all areas in between) as well.

Just because a city can fill a 16-18 thousand seat arena for a minor league football league or hockey team doesn't mean it can successfully host 81 baseball games in a 35-40 thousand seat stadium, make a profit, and compete in MLB against large markets like New York, Boston or LA.

Actually, the St Pete Times Forum holds a little more than you think. It's one of the larger arenas in the country. Damn assumptions...

http://www.icepalace.com/content.cfm?categ...amp;pageid=1107

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the Rays will sell out a 38,000 seat stadium 81 times a year. Then again, how many teams actually accomplish that? With as many things as there are to do in this city, it's just not going to happen. What I WILL say, however, is that when the Rays start winning, they will EASILY average 30,000. Why wouldnt they?!

Funny that you bring up the "profit" thing. Granted, the payroll is disgustingly low(for now...until Kazmir and the rest are locked up longterm), but the Rays led MLB in profit last year.

Don't like the comparison to Miami? Do you realize that Miami is a larger television and sports market than Tampa Bay?

Already proved that wrong.

Do you also realize that it is much higher profile city than Tampa or St.Petersburg?

City? Yes.

Sports city? No.

If baseball can't make it there and baseball is suffering in Tampa Bay as well, is it much of a stretch to compare the two Florida markets?

This is where you missed my original point.

Have you ever BEEN to Miami OR Tampa/St Pete?! As I said before, Miami is a different COUNTRY. It's hard to explain if you've never experienced it. Everything is different down there. It's a totally different lifestyle down there.

You know what? maybe you're right....we shouldn't compare the two markets because Tampa/St.Pete shouldn't be able to hold a candle to Miami. So I beg your pardon on that one

Its okay to be passionate about a team, a city, or a sport....but don't let that passion blind you to the obvious facts.

You're right. Facts are facts.

'07 avg attendance:

Devil Rays: 17,148

Marlins: 16, 919

Buccaneers: 65,238 (99.4% of capacity)

Dolphins: 71,200 (94.6%)

Lightning: 19,876 (3rd in the league)

Panthers: 15,370

USF football: 52,347

UM football: 43,589

I give you kudos for taking the time to actually put figures and specific examples (although many of them pretty weak and germane to my point) But despite all of that I still don't think you've proven the Tampa Bay market as a viable BASEBALL market. You've actually kind of further perpetuated the argument that baseball doesn't work fulltime in ALL of Florida.

I'll make a couple of points responding to your post:

1. If you don't understand why NFL and it's franchises are generally more successful with attendance, competitive balance and profitability than MLB and many other sports then I guess thats something you need to go research. It is indeed comparing apples and oranges when comparing a football market to a baseball, basketball or even hockey market. Its much easier to fill a large stadium 8 times a year versus a large baseball stadium 81 times. Its also easier to fill an arena of anywhere between 15-20 thousand 81 times a year than a baseball stadium of 35-40 thousand. It also helps to have a competitive team and baseball doesn't have a system that helps the smaller to medium sized markets.....I've already covered this in a previous post in this thread...go read it again, I don't like repeating myself.

2. Yes, actually I did live in South Florida a few years back. I lived within a half hour of Miami, spending more than enough nights in sweaty overcrowded clubs on the beach or walking through town looking for a great Cuban sandwich. You make Miami seem like Mars. Listen, its different indeed but no different than many places in New York or LA. So I don't buy the whole "Different Country" BS. If anything, the area should be a hotbed for beisbol since its so popular in the Hispanic community....of which half of my family is part of (if that even matters) So I do kind of understand the Latin influence in that area.

3. Yes, I'm saying that there is NOT a demand for baseball in that area....THATS EXACTLY WHAT I'M SAYING!!!!! I'm glad you got the point. I'm tired of hearing people say "Oh if they had better players or better stadium or better uniforms or a billion dollars like the Yankees or rocket packs on their backs..blah blah blah" It just isn't happening. They've been around for about a decade....it ain't going to get much better anytime soon. Should we give them another decade? How about two?

4. That quote you made about the Tampa Bay Rays being the "most profitable team in baseball" is absolutely false... refer to this link (choose any of the columns and you won't see them at the top):

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/33/07mlb_...ball_Value.html

If they want to be in the business of having the lowest payroll and spend as little as possible on the team to keep making marginal profits...more power to them. Eventually the 12,000 or so diehard fans will get tired of watching them average 60 wins a year and practically beg them to move. I'll say it again, if the Marlins could win two WS titles and still be in dire straits, what makes you really think that Tampa could do the same thing and turn it around? Lets get serious now.

5. I think you are hitting it on the head with the transplanted fans comment....and you don't even realize it. Its much harder to build a strong fan base capable enough to support a baseball franchise when most of your inhabitants are from other cities of the country with ties to other major league teams. Thats the big reason why baseball is not currently working in Florida and will probably not be much different in the next decade.

6. Are you really saying that we should commend the Rays for averaging around 25,000 a game during a winning streak? C'mon man, people keep beating down the Atlanta area as such a bad sports market yet their baseball and football teams are near the middle or top of their respective leagues in attendance (Falcons over 60k and the Braves over 30k) So I should think that there's going to be a huge turn around because the Rays have averaged 25k during a winning streak? Please man, you're killing me with that. Here are the FACTS:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

BTW, who do you see at or near the bottom of attendance just about every year? Tampa Bay and Miami...wow....what a surprise. How long can a business stay in business if they can't bring people to their business, while their competitors bring them in by the bus loads? Times a ticking Florida teams...times a ticking.

[So_Fla]

Tampa/St Pete IS a baseball market, it's just not a RAYS market......yet.

Proof? Check the attendance when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town.

If that's true, it looks even worse for the market, that the pathetic attendance numbers are inflated by games against divisional rivals....

Averages are averages, against division rivals or not. Your point is moot.

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

2ndly, whats the difference if our sports team is a baseball team or a football team or a hockey team?!

No dog in this fight, other than to say the highlighted word looks stupid.

[DEAD!]

2ndly, whats the difference if our sports team is a baseball team or a football team or a hockey team?!

No dog in this fight, other than to say the highlighted word looks stupid.

.. txt msg Papa Johns?...

[Gothamite]

Tampa/St Pete IS a baseball market, it's just not a RAYS market......yet.

Proof? Check the attendance when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town.

If that's true, it looks even worse for the market, that the pathetic attendance numbers are inflated by games against divisional rivals....

Averages are averages, against division rivals or not. Your point is moot.

Not at all.

The average home attendance is nothing short of terrible. BigShoop made the point that the Red Sox and Yankee fans are padding that terrible attendance figure.

The last five years, Tampa Bay has been either dead last or second-to-last in attendance (over the last seven years, the only ones for which I have numbers readily available, the team hasn't ever climbed higher than 28th out of 30). BigShoop's contention is that Yankee and Red Sox fans are boosting those numbers. Makes one wonder where Tampa Bay would score if it didn't play a higher percentage of its home games against those two clubs.

That's extremely relevant when discussing the area's status as a baseball market. Far from being moot, it's squarely on point.

[powersurge]

Exactly my point....Having higher attendance figures when the Sawks or Yanks are in town doesn't make you a great BASEBALL market. The issue here is not whether or not Tampa/St.Pete is a great sports town, metropolis, has great people, real estate value...or sex appeal. The issue is whether or not Tampa/St.Pete is a great BASEBALL market. If they were a viable baseball market then their attendance would be much higher year round.

Just because Spring Training is pretty popular in Florida, doesn't mean that baseball will be popular year round long after the Snow Birds have left and all of the talented baseball teams went with them.

[Gothamite]

I admit that I'm surprised - I figured Florida would be a good baseball market. But so far it's failed miserably.

[powersurge]

I actually thought that Arizona was going to fail miserably because of many factors, most notably the weather. But, as we've seen over the last decade or so...it has flourished.

On a related note...Chase Field is actually a really nice park. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate. I went there a few years back and was taken back by how it looks so much like a Warehouse on the outside and a baseball park on the inside. Its no Camden Yards, but definately worth going to if you are in the area.

[Survival79]

More Uniforms In Rays Future

By MARC LANCASTER, The Tampa Tribune

Published: November 16, 2007

ST. PETERSBURG - Baseball purists and civic-pride enthusiasts, take heart: It appears "Tampa Bay" will have a place on the Rays' redesigned uniforms - just not until 2009.

A week removed from the much-ballyhooed unveiling of the team's new look, which features only the word "Rays" on the front of the 2008 home and road jerseys, plans already are in motion for an alternate road uniform that would include a "Tampa Bay" marking. But not until the first season as the Rays is in the books.

The lack of a geographic identity on the Rays' new road uniforms has been perhaps the most consistent fan complaint associated with the new look. Many were upset that the team was bucking baseball tradition and others were concerned that putting "Rays" on all the uniforms was an indication the franchise might be looking to move.

The vast majority of major-league teams list their city or state name on the front of their road jerseys. Of the 30 teams, only four - the Angels, Cardinals, Orioles and Phillies - featured their nickname on their primary road jersey in 2007.

"We were aware that by removing the geographic tag on our road jerseys, we would be in select company in Major League Baseball," Rays president Matt Silverman said Thursday. "It's not necessarily a permanent change but one we feel is important this year as we reinforce the fact that we are now 'the Rays.'"

The "Tampa Bay" road uniform wouldn't be worn all the time away from Tropicana Field; it would mostly serve to provide different options as the team continues to expand its brand identity. It's also possible that the sunburst that appears in the "R" on the new jerseys could become a standalone icon as the team continues to push public perception of the name "Rays" away from the aquatic creature and toward sunlight.

The alternate uniform wasn't put on the drawing board because of fan response, but the feedback didn't hurt.

"It does play a factor; we try to be responsive to our fans and supporters," said Silverman. "In fact, their input helped guide the design decisions we undertook during this process."

Silverman said last week that focus groups of fans were consulted as the team began designing the new uniforms in early 2006. They were asked about different fonts and colors and encouraged to provide any other input they had to offer.

Two possibilities for an Alternate.

The 'TB' looked very boring on the jersey by itself, so I added the "glint" to try and make it... well, not so boring. Then I also did one with the 'Rays' script, only did it in white rather than navy like on the BP jersey and jacket.

The alternate on the right is fantastic. I'll admit it -- I'm not in love with this new identity, but it has grown on me.

[Gothamite]

The vast majority of major-league teams list their city or state name on the front of their road jerseys. Of the 30 teams, only four - the Angels, Cardinals, Orioles and Phillies - featured their nickname on their primary road jersey in 2007.

Brewers? Much as it pains me that they're in this company....

"We were aware that by removing the geographic tag on our road jerseys, we would be in select company in Major League Baseball," Rays president Matt Silverman said Thursday. "It's not necessarily a permanent change but one we feel is important this year as we reinforce the fact that we are now 'the Rays.'"

What exactly does that mean?

And, as others have said before, way to hamstring sales of your road jerseys, fellas.

[powersurge]

If by "select company" they mean "teams with tremendous history and credibility" then its not a bad idea for a team who has neither history nor credibility to attempt to associate itself with a select group of quality franchises.

In the end, the identity isn't gawd awful by any standards but its not great. It is pretty tough to screw up a navy and light blue combo...although I'm sure its been done.