CONCEPT81: 2009 New Orleans Saints

[Vicious]

i think these concepts are great. i can see the difference between thse and the rams. and, i think these are better. i love the white set. looks killer man. cant really find anything to be mad at here. good job.

My biggest problem of this concept isn't specific to you, because I see this more and more with concepts here...do you really want 9 uniform combinations? Either:

1- You don't intend for the team to wear them and just putting them out there for feedback, in which case I feel that is kind of a copout. Put out only the uniforms that you feel are best and the team should wear.

2- You actually feel all 9 uniforms should be worn, in which case I feel that is about 6 too many.

It's hard for me to judge concepts when there are so many uniform combinations. For instance, I don't like the white pants with either jersey, nor the all gold set, but is it worth even thinking about since you might not even seriously intend for the team to wear them?

i dont think its a problem. its not like hes sending this in to the saints for them to wear, hes just posting them as concepts. as in 'what if they wore these?'. i think people should post as many different combinations as they can. its not like its an inconvenience for me to look at em.

some people take concepts too seriously.

[LEWJ]

Nice. I really like these, a lot.

The only thing I kinda have a problem with is the numbers, some of them seem like they would look very similar on jerseys (with wrinkles), kinda like the problem the cowboys have with there 8 & 9.

Other than that, beautiful

[andrewharrington]

i think these concepts are great. i can see the difference between thse and the rams. and, i think these are better. i love the white set. looks killer man. cant really find anything to be mad at here. good job.

My biggest problem of this concept isn't specific to you, because I see this more and more with concepts here...do you really want 9 uniform combinations? Either:

1- You don't intend for the team to wear them and just putting them out there for feedback, in which case I feel that is kind of a copout. Put out only the uniforms that you feel are best and the team should wear.

2- You actually feel all 9 uniforms should be worn, in which case I feel that is about 6 too many.

It's hard for me to judge concepts when there are so many uniform combinations. For instance, I don't like the white pants with either jersey, nor the all gold set, but is it worth even thinking about since you might not even seriously intend for the team to wear them?

i dont think its a problem. its not like hes sending this in to the saints for them to wear, hes just posting them as concepts. as in 'what if they wore these?'. i think people should post as many different combinations as they can. its not like its an inconvenience for me to look at em.

some people take concepts too seriously.

I think it's a huge inconvenience to look at them. Get to the point and put the best uniforms out there for people to see. I don't like seeing a team wearing something different every week, and thus, I don't want to look at those combination that are completely extraneous. Having to weed through 6 bad combinations to find a handful of good ones lowers my opinion of a concept, and it probably does others' as well. It's trying to please everyone all the time. Do you honestly think that all gold looks good? If not, don't put it out there just because there are two guys that come to every concept thread just to say, "Would love to see a gold monochrome!" I would never show a client 9 ideas because I know that some of those 9 ideas just aren't that successful and I know that the client always picks the worst idea you show him.

[Vicious]

that the client always picks the worst idea you show him.

aint that the truth!

[bigdub81]

QUOTE(Vicious @ Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 - 14:32:46)

i think these concepts are great. i can see the difference between thse and the rams. and, i think these are better. i love the white set. looks killer man. cant really find anything to be mad at here. good job.

QUOTE(Fjm @ Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 - 11:24:15)

My biggest problem of this concept isn't specific to you, because I see this more and more with concepts here...do you really want 9 uniform combinations? Either:

1- You don't intend for the team to wear them and just putting them out there for feedback, in which case I feel that is kind of a copout. Put out only the uniforms that you feel are best and the team should wear.

2- You actually feel all 9 uniforms should be worn, in which case I feel that is about 6 too many.

It's hard for me to judge concepts when there are so many uniform combinations. For instance, I don't like the white pants with either jersey, nor the all gold set, but is it worth even thinking about since you might not even seriously intend for the team to wear them?

i dont think its a problem. its not like hes sending this in to the saints for them to wear, hes just posting them as concepts. as in 'what if they wore these?'. i think people should post as many different combinations as they can. its not like its an inconvenience for me to look at em.

some people take concepts too seriously.

I think it's a huge inconvenience to look at them. Get to the point and put the best uniforms out there for people to see. I don't like seeing a team wearing something different every week, and thus, I don't want to look at those combination that are completely extraneous. Having to weed through 6 bad combinations to find a handful of good ones lowers my opinion of a concept, and it probably does others' as well. It's trying to please everyone all the time. Do you honestly think that all gold looks good? If not, don't put it out there just because there are two guys that come to every concept thread just to say, "Would love to see a gold monochrome!" I would never show a client 9 ideas because I know that some of those 9 ideas just aren't that successful and I know that the client always picks the worst idea you show him.

Ok so as an artist I'm not supposed to give myself options right? I agree that 'clients' or those in the respective team offices that are responsible for making uniform decisions do **** it up when it comes to either updating and or completely overhauling a team's uniform. The Bengals, Bills and Vikings are prime examples of how to do so but in saying that, what if by chance I was called upon by the Saints HQ to bring forth my concept because someone within the club stumbled upon this board and thought that my design should see the light of day or better yet the Benson's eyes? Seeing that it would be legal by NFL rules since the team contacted me to concept a uni or show one that found it's way to them, if Tom Benson say's I'll pay you $$$ to see what this concept would look like with white pants as an option instead of just gold pants like you have here....he's getting a concept with the white pants!

And I only included 3 colors that the team has worn during it's tenure. It's not like all of a sudden I'm putting them out there in purle or white which I have heard suggested at times when others have concepted the Saints, but let's be real, I'm an artist and even I wouldn't go that far. Those options are as far-fetched as the ''ooh soo scary' black helmet that some want or that all white helmet that would be just the end-all-to-be-all! The Saints will change to a black or white helmet when the Colts go blue and the Raiders go black! The NFL ain't lettin' that happen no time soon! I've said it before that I am a traditionalist and love when teams can tweak and do slight adjustments to their uni's without going completely off the wall (see teams above). I hated when the Packers rid themselves of their extra sleeve stripes but it doesn't chap me as bad because now it matches their collar and their pants always match their helmet. CLASSIC! I feel the same of the Steelers and like many others loathe the italic numbers but such is such and you can't always have it your way!

I could have gone the complete classic route with the Saints and said ok this is it but then what would I be creating! So what if my concept looks Ramish, it wasn't my intention to do so and the same could be said for the Cards vs Atlanta! There are options to go with that would have competely destroyed any solidity for the Saints uni's but I didn't want that. I wanted something simple enough yet updated to where the majority would be pleased because life will not give you everybody. The NFL don't allow you to say ok this week the Panthers are gonna' be modeling a uni concept playing the Buc's so if the fans like it, it will be next years new uni's? Do you think the Vikings or Buffalo would have gotten away with it? It's not your option and most teams could care less what 500 people think out of 50,000 who would buy into the new look! It's about money and that's why there will always be a M&N throwback somewhere in the stands.

[gingerbreadmann]

There are really only 3 concepts here and it could be said that it is one concept set, featuring a Home, Away, and Alt. jersey with 3 variations on each. That's how I see it. The pants variations are quite subtle and the main gist of the uniform is the top. The pant variations are shown very nicely and do not intrude, while they do give you an easy system to see what looks good when matched together, so there is nothing wrong with that. It's not like there are millions of cuff striping patterns or numeral colors. There are three different shirt colors, so having three different pant colors is justified if not a good thing. Plus, like I said, they are shown off very well. So I disagree with you Andrew, at least in this case.

[andrewharrington]

QUOTE(Vicious @ Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 - 14:32:46)

i think these concepts are great. i can see the difference between thse and the rams. and, i think these are better. i love the white set. looks killer man. cant really find anything to be mad at here. good job.

QUOTE(Fjm @ Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 - 11:24:15)

My biggest problem of this concept isn't specific to you, because I see this more and more with concepts here...do you really want 9 uniform combinations? Either:

1- You don't intend for the team to wear them and just putting them out there for feedback, in which case I feel that is kind of a copout. Put out only the uniforms that you feel are best and the team should wear.

2- You actually feel all 9 uniforms should be worn, in which case I feel that is about 6 too many.

It's hard for me to judge concepts when there are so many uniform combinations. For instance, I don't like the white pants with either jersey, nor the all gold set, but is it worth even thinking about since you might not even seriously intend for the team to wear them?

i dont think its a problem. its not like hes sending this in to the saints for them to wear, hes just posting them as concepts. as in 'what if they wore these?'. i think people should post as many different combinations as they can. its not like its an inconvenience for me to look at em.

some people take concepts too seriously.

I think it's a huge inconvenience to look at them. Get to the point and put the best uniforms out there for people to see. I don't like seeing a team wearing something different every week, and thus, I don't want to look at those combination that are completely extraneous. Having to weed through 6 bad combinations to find a handful of good ones lowers my opinion of a concept, and it probably does others' as well. It's trying to please everyone all the time. Do you honestly think that all gold looks good? If not, don't put it out there just because there are two guys that come to every concept thread just to say, "Would love to see a gold monochrome!" I would never show a client 9 ideas because I know that some of those 9 ideas just aren't that successful and I know that the client always picks the worst idea you show him.

Ok so as an artist I'm not supposed to give myself options right? I agree that 'clients' or those in the respective team offices that are responsible for making uniform decisions do **** it up when it comes to either updating and or completely overhauling a team's uniform. The Bengals, Bills and Vikings are prime examples of how to do so but in saying that, what if by chance I was called upon by the Saints HQ to bring forth my concept because someone within the club stumbled upon this board and thought that my design should see the light of day or better yet the Benson's eyes? Seeing that it would be legal by NFL rules since the team contacted me to concept a uni or show one that found it's way to them, if Tom Benson say's I'll pay you $$$ to see what this concept would look like with white pants as an option instead of just gold pants like you have here....he's getting a concept with the white pants!

And I only included 3 colors that the team has worn during it's tenure. It's not like all of a sudden I'm putting them out there in purle or white which I have heard suggested at times when others have concepted the Saints, but let's be real, I'm an artist and even I wouldn't go that far. Those options are as far-fetched as the ''ooh soo scary' black helmet that some want or that all white helmet that would be just the end-all-to-be-all! The Saints will change to a black or white helmet when the Colts go blue and the Raiders go black! The NFL ain't lettin' that happen no time soon! I've said it before that I am a traditionalist and love when teams can tweak and do slight adjustments to their uni's without going completely off the wall (see teams above). I hated when the Packers rid themselves of their extra sleeve stripes but it doesn't chap me as bad because now it matches their collar and their pants always match their helmet. CLASSIC! I feel the same of the Steelers and like many others loathe the italic numbers but such is such and you can't always have it your way!

I could have gone the complete classic route with the Saints and said ok this is it but then what would I be creating! So what if my concept looks Ramish, it wasn't my intention to do so and the same could be said for the Cards vs Atlanta! There are options to go with that would have competely destroyed any solidity for the Saints uni's but I didn't want that. I wanted something simple enough yet updated to where the majority would be pleased because life will not give you everybody. The NFL don't allow you to say ok this week the Panthers are gonna' be modeling a uni concept playing the Buc's so if the fans like it, it will be next years new uni's? Do you think the Vikings or Buffalo would have gotten away with it? It's not your option and most teams could care less what 500 people think out of 50,000 who would buy into the new look! It's about money and that's why there will always be a M&N throwback somewhere in the stands.

You know, you asked for constructive criticism. I gave it to you and I elaborated on it, suggesting that you nix the extraneous design elements. Likewise, I'm judging you to be someone who's big on presentation (as you should be, because it's very important). I gave you my opinion on how to improve your presentation (by consolidating the items you are presenting from 9 to about 3). Take my advice for what it's worth to you, but why waste your time writing a book-length post trying to convince me that my own opinion is wrong? What did that accomplish?

[TML13]

These rock, man. The new, modernized look really brings out the colors in this design. I love your font type you created as well, it looks fantastic. I could definitely see the Saints in uniforms like this in the future.

WOW! those kick all kinds of ass.

[PackerBadger]

I would ditch the white pants (bad era in Saints history ... then again, there are few good eras in Saints history) and the gold jersey. On the white jersey, I would make the numbers gold (outlined in black) and the names black, and I'd make the names on the black jerseys white.

Other than those items, this is a great look.

[pitt]

so so sweet lookin.

[geauxjames]

All-in-all, a great job bigdub81.

As some one who has designed / owns a firm that has designed and implemented concepts for College and Professional Sports Franchises, I only have one negative comment... the n.o.b. type treatment. While relatively legible, it would be tremendously difficult to read and discern certain characters from the stands and/or television. While some of the jersey numbers are a bit hard to read as well (likely the ones your digital manipulated), some slight tweaking "back" could solve that but kudos for taking the chance.

That said, keep up the great work! You have a talent for this... whether as a hobby or paid profession, and it is YOUR expression and YOUR design, hopefully for a team YOU like... as said by a native of Louisiana... so ultimately, YOUR vision for what COULD be.

[habsfan1]

Great job on the concept. I love it. Yes it looks very much like the Rams but it's well done. I esecially love the font you created for the numbers.

[bigdub81]

You know, you asked for constructive criticism. I gave it to you and I elaborated on it, suggesting that you nix the extraneous design elements. Likewise, I'm judging you to be someone who's big on presentation (as you should be, because it's very important). I gave you my opinion on how to improve your presentation (by consolidating the items you are presenting from 9 to about 3). Take my advice for what it's worth to you, but why waste your time writing a book-length post trying to convince me that my own opinion is wrong? What did that accomplish?

Wasn't trying to change your opinion. Just stating mine.

I would ditch the white pants (bad era in Saints history ... then again, there are few good eras in Saints history) and the gold jersey. On the white jersey, I would make the numbers gold (outlined in black) and the names black, and I'd make the names on the black jerseys white.

Other than those items, this is a great look.

Yeah the Saints had a couple of era's of bad luck so I don't think the white pants would hurt that much because that's actually why I brought them back. I must admit that I would only be a fan of the white on white if this were a real uniform. I like tradition and teams that have such a vibrant as the Saints, 49ers....I feel should always wear pants that match the helmet. White is a nice throw-off having the helmet metallic gold and I really don't care for monochromatic looks maybe except for Seattle but all white can get boring like the Redskins. It's been years since the Saints have had white pants and I don't believe they ever went with an all-white look! It'd be something different to see and for that reason it's why I chose to make the sleeves, side panels and pants stripe all the same on each jersey. I wanted the look to transition from each set without going so far like Buffalo having both white and blue pants and neither set matches their jersey cause' everything is just thrown together. Even the gold pants that they wear now is what's in my concept because it keeps something similar while making it work with the others. And I'll try the gold numbers for you!

[bigdub81]

Here's a better look at the jerseys using a different template and a plain alternate version of the Saints uniforms.

[sacker12]

The gold numbers on the road jerseys are so cool.

[BRYWHIT]

Love it. but I dont like uniforms with too many options. I would just go with Black on black and white on gold. thats it.

[tBBP]

Ah...see you got around to using that temp. Warping them "nimbas" on those jerseys is a lil' mo difficult than you thought, ain't it?

All in all, I rather like this concept you have here. A LOT.

Okay...I can see the similarities between your jersey treatment and the current styling of the Rams, but I really wouldn't let that be a deterrent. (Invariably, some element of some team's uniform more than likely will end up looking like something on some other team's uniform in somebody's eyes--I mean, look at the Colts and Jets and the Vikes and Cardinals.) The crescent incorporation is a pretty good idea...and something skyaa1 and myself tried to work into the Saints concept we did up a while ago...a concept that, too, was viewed by many as, in your words, "Ram-ish".

The Plumber's Gothic numbers...eh, they ain't bad, but to me, they just don't read "Saints" to me (but then, this is me, and if you know anything about my methodologies for concocting concepts, you know why I say that). For that matter, neither does your wordmark. On it's own, it still looks pretty good--but, again, it just doesn't seem to fit with the team name or locale. As for the uniforms themselves, you made nice use of piping, and didn't overdo it, so congrats. However, that crescent on the gold 3rd jersey really seems out of place since it also does not have the piping accents of the other two jerseys. I understand what your reasoning behind that was (avoiding mismatches with the pants), but it just seems like a floating element there since it's not really connected to anything else.

Suggestion? Try flip-flopping your golds and blacks, making gold the more predominant color. Again, this is just personal preference (well, me and skyaa1, anyway), but seriously, ain't a singular team in pro sports that uses gold as its primary color, or at least gets "primary color" treatment. I think that the Saints would be a perfect candidate for such a treatment. Gold and white with black accents. Try it and see how it comes out. If nothing else, it'd be among the more unique looks in the NFL.

One other thing I'd be remiss not to mention: props on tossing in the QB. (Kinda tipping my hand here, but I'm actually nearing closer to wrapping up a few more action temps featuring other position players. I already have some done.) Looks real good, homie.

Overall, I think this may be the best I've seen out of you thus far. And oh by the way, congrats on the new addition to your family! Mine will be on the way soon...too bad I won't be stateside for the birth (but that's another story that's been mentioned in another thread).

[bigdub81]

Ah...see you got around to using that temp. Warping them "nimbas" on those jerseys is a lil' mo difficult than you thought, ain't it?

All in all, I rather like this concept you have here. A LOT.

Okay...I can see the similarities between your jersey treatment and the current styling of the Rams, but I really wouldn't let that be a deterrent. (Invariably, some element of some team's uniform more than likely will end up looking like something on some other team's uniform in somebody's eyes--I mean, look at the Colts and Jets and the Vikes and Cardinals.) The crescent incorporation is a pretty good idea...and something skyaa1 and myself tried to work into the Saints concept we did up a while ago...a concept that, too, was viewed by many as, in your words, "Ram-ish".

The Plumber's Gothic numbers...eh, they ain't bad, but to me, they just don't read "Saints" to me (but then, this is me, and if you know anything about my methodologies for concocting concepts, you know why I say that). For that matter, neither does your wordmark. On it's own, it still looks pretty good--but, again, it just doesn't seem to fit with the team name or locale. As for the uniforms themselves, you made nice use of piping, and didn't overdo it, so congrats. However, that crescent on the gold 3rd jersey really seems out of place since it also does not have the piping accents of the other two jerseys. I understand what your reasoning behind that was (avoiding mismatches with the pants), but it just seems like a floating element there since it's not really connected to anything else.

Suggestion? Try flip-flopping your golds and blacks, making gold the more predominant color. Again, this is just personal preference (well, me and skyaa1, anyway), but seriously, ain't a singular team in pro sports that uses gold as its primary color, or at least gets "primary color" treatment. I think that the Saints would be a perfect candidate for such a treatment. Gold and white with black accents. Try it and see how it comes out. If nothing else, it'd be among the more unique looks in the NFL.

One other thing I'd be remiss not to mention: props on tossing in the QB. (Kinda tipping my hand here, but I'm actually nearing closer to wrapping up a few more action temps featuring other position players. I already have some done.) Looks real good, homie.

Overall, I think this may be the best I've seen out of you thus far. And oh by the way, congrats on the new addition to your family! Mine will be on the way soon...too bad I won't be stateside for the birth (but that's another story that's been mentioned in another thread).

Yeah I was a lil' hesitant to use it...it intimidated me a bit but so did AI when I first started using it so I wouldn't let it beat me. And I was wondering if you were doing other templates cause' I think we need some 'D' on the site. I thought about flipping your WR into a CB but I just let it slide and I used a Marino pic to bring about Drew. I myself am not a fan of the gold jersey but I put it in there for the sake of others and also because I had to leave out the white on the side piping because of the pants. And I really didnt feel like making a font from scratch so I just picked that one cause' it was still athletic enough for me and tweaked a few of the numbers. The original one that I posted on another site kept the same wordmark and numbers that the team uses now but someone suggested that I change to more of a curved font because of the addition of the crescents. Having Atlanta already with such numbers I was reluctant to do so but gave in anway and this is what became of it. I'll flip the colors to see and congrats on your addition as well. Sleep is a word that you will not know of anymore! Trust Me!!

[tBBP]

Ah...see you got around to using that temp. Warping them "nimbas" on those jerseys is a lil' mo difficult than you thought, ain't it?

All in all, I rather like this concept you have here. A LOT.

Okay...I can see the similarities between your jersey treatment and the current styling of the Rams, but I really wouldn't let that be a deterrent. (Invariably, some element of some team's uniform more than likely will end up looking like something on some other team's uniform in somebody's eyes--I mean, look at the Colts and Jets and the Vikes and Cardinals.) The crescent incorporation is a pretty good idea...and something skyaa1 and myself tried to work into the Saints concept we did up a while ago...a concept that, too, was viewed by many as, in your words, "Ram-ish".

The Plumber's Gothic numbers...eh, they ain't bad, but to me, they just don't read "Saints" to me (but then, this is me, and if you know anything about my methodologies for concocting concepts, you know why I say that). For that matter, neither does your wordmark. On it's own, it still looks pretty good--but, again, it just doesn't seem to fit with the team name or locale. As for the uniforms themselves, you made nice use of piping, and didn't overdo it, so congrats. However, that crescent on the gold 3rd jersey really seems out of place since it also does not have the piping accents of the other two jerseys. I understand what your reasoning behind that was (avoiding mismatches with the pants), but it just seems like a floating element there since it's not really connected to anything else.

Suggestion? Try flip-flopping your golds and blacks, making gold the more predominant color. Again, this is just personal preference (well, me and skyaa1, anyway), but seriously, ain't a singular team in pro sports that uses gold as its primary color, or at least gets "primary color" treatment. I think that the Saints would be a perfect candidate for such a treatment. Gold and white with black accents. Try it and see how it comes out. If nothing else, it'd be among the more unique looks in the NFL.

One other thing I'd be remiss not to mention: props on tossing in the QB. (Kinda tipping my hand here, but I'm actually nearing closer to wrapping up a few more action temps featuring other position players. I already have some done.) Looks real good, homie.

Overall, I think this may be the best I've seen out of you thus far. And oh by the way, congrats on the new addition to your family! Mine will be on the way soon...too bad I won't be stateside for the birth (but that's another story that's been mentioned in another thread).

Yeah I was a lil' hesitant to use it...it intimidated me a bit but so did AI when I first started using it so I wouldn't let it beat me. And I was wondering if you were doing other templates cause' I think we need some 'D' on the site. I thought about flipping your WR into a CB but I just let it slide and I used a Marino pic to bring about Drew. I myself am not a fan of the gold jersey but I put it in there for the sake of others and also because I had to leave out the white on the side piping because of the pants. And I really didnt feel like making a font from scratch so I just picked that one cause' it was still athletic enough for me and tweaked a few of the numbers. The original one that I posted on another site kept the same wordmark and numbers that the team uses now but someone suggested that I change to more of a curved font because of the addition of the crescents. Having Atlanta already with such numbers I was reluctant to do so but gave in anway and this is what became of it. I'll flip the colors to see and congrats on your addition as well. Sleep is a word that you will not know of anymore! Trust Me!!

Roger.

And cat...sleep deprivation is something I'm all too familiar with. It's the in-home sleep deprivation that's gon take some getting used to. (But hey...if I was to take a glass-half-full approach to this whole thing, I guess I could say I got about 18 months to prepare for it!)

BTW, 'Dub...I do have some "D" player action temps. I just gotta put the finishing touches on them. I may do a few more.

[robbman21]

And I was wondering if you were doing other templates cause' I think we need some 'D' on the site.

Oh...some "D" is coming...stay tuned!