Buc's Major League Makeover

[ryanlion13]

You do some good work, real nice presentation. But I might suggest trying to tackle teams that are in deperate need of a change. Something that would make them radically better. The Yanks set actually got worse by giving them vests. It was only a slight change, nothing too radical. And it's a change that isn't needed. Same with Frisco. I love what you did with the script on the away, and I love the alternate home vest. But we're talking about minor tweaks to already great uniform sets. Try a more radical change or work with a team in dire need.

Example: If you want to go with the Yanks try making a classy looking home jersey with Yankees in script and get away from their pinstripes. That would be a challenge. Or maybe you take the color set for the Yanks or Giants and go in a different direction. But, otherwise so far these are small tweaks that are interesting but not radical.

Try going with a team like the Marlins or the Rangers or the Rockies or the D-Bags (err Backs). Teams that have a thousand uniform sets that give no clear team identity, yet have interesting team names or colors to be used. The Marlins and Rockies should be a lot cooler than they are.

But thats all just my suggestion. Muse is 9/10ths of creation.

[incrediballer]

Add me to the list of San Francisco wordmark fanatics.

The action temps are cool. But I like to see some kinda running batter or a catcher in there.

[The_Admiral]

I haven't gotten through this thread completely, just the Yankees part.

Honestly, guys? "A god"? It's really not very good. For a Yankees High-A affiliate? Sure. But a grey pinstriped vest on any major league team is unconscionable, to say nothing of the New York Yankees. And cleaning up the monogram just makes it look like a ripoff, because the idiosyncracies are simply too grandfathered to clean up at this stage of the game. We're talking about possibly THE sports logo of the world here. There's little anyone can do with it. Your template is nice. I appreciate that you're working outside your comfort zone. You've done some really good football stuff, but I don't see how this makes the Yankees look better. I mean, I don't mean to be overly harsh, but it's like I said in the other thread: handling a 30-team concept is too daunting for even the best of the best, because some teams just can't be improved upon. It's lame to quote myself, but nonetheless,

I think the problem with Redesign The Whole League threads is that it forces one to tinker with uniforms that might not necessarily need tinkering and would never consider tinkering in the real world . . . "Yankees are pretty much set, so I put a silver outline around the NY." Okay, but why, though?

I know you'll have some big hits along the way, though.

I'm not a Yankees fan, by the way.

p.s.: You had a great point about the Yankees not really having team colors, per se, and that's something I sorta like. Nominally, I suppose they're midnight blue, grey, and white, but then you have royal blue and red in the primary, not to mention Yankee Stadium blue. It adds to the refinement of the Yankees' branding, in a sense: in that way, they transcend "me from Chicago, my hat blue, blue hat good! you from St. Louis, your hat red, red hat bad." Not that there's any shortage of Yankee-based tribalism, but it's less evident in that regard.

[JayJaxon]

I am a fan of numbers on the front and vests as well, so the San Fran set works for me. I can see that you are not trying to re-invent the wheel here, but instead you are cleaning up a set that already looks good. I always liked that 'San Francisco' word mark and I am glad to see it on a great action template. I would say you are making a very nice transition into baseball.

[DomTheAthlete29]

The Giants alternate jersey just isn't working for me. It reminds me of those black jerseys Oakland used to wear?

Well its not completely the same, but the dark green on black is extremely hard to read as the black on black you have. I would try an Orange jersey instead, won't be as hot as wearing the black in the summer. I think you have a good start.

Action Templates:

Pure beauty. Even better then your football ones. I would love to see a catcher template i think it would look bad ass.

[siegel0572]

I'm not a fan of either of the teams you have done so far, but that is not the point to this thread. Both of these sets are very nicely done. And yes team do have traditions and images, but over time a change is needed. I myself have never been a fan of the Yankees look. To me it was just too plain and boring. IMO they should change their logo to this $ since that's all they seem to do is spend money. Hopefully they will fall on their pocketbooks and not make the playoffs again, then maybe Hank will have a meltdown like his dad used to do. Sorry I did'nt mean to go on a rant. Keep up the great work on these designs and I'm looking foreward to the next set.

[BJBerthiaume]

Not a fan of the Yankees set. I understand that you are trying to re-do it, but I think their primary homes have to remain the same. The vests are fine for an alternate, but I would have trouble seeing them wearing something other than what they have. Giants set is looking pretty good. Nothing outstanding, but good. I think your concepts will improve once you start doing teams that don't have so much uniform tradition involved.

[tp49]

I'm not a fan of vests in baseball with the exception of th ePirates who do them well.

As for the Yankees set the vest seems to me to be more of a gimmick. PErsonally, I like the "traditional" Yankees look. I'd love to see them take the white trim off of the road jerseys. As for your set, the one thing I like is the home alternate and even them I'd like that as the BP jersey. I'm not so big on the road alternate as somehow the script New York doesn't look balanced to my eye.

As for the Giants' I like the road script, though I could swear they used something like that before moving to SBC and currently use it on a jacket. I do think the number on the front clutters up the jersey though. The road alternate looks almost exactly like the BP but with piping around the neck and a front number. I wonder how an orange alternate would look. Could be very interesting. I do also like the addtion of the last name on the home jerseys.

Since you mentioned the gold in your intro to the set, the Giants do use gold as a drop shadow on the home and the road jerseys (and also the black alternate they used around 2001 or so).

[tBBP]

Wow...'preciate all the feedback going on up in here. This is going better than I thought!

FWIW...true enough, neither of the teams I've posted so far have serious issues with their looks now (well, aside from my personal opinion that one of them is entirely too bland for my tastes, no matter the tradition), but really, they were done more to gauge what might work and what might not work for a good baseball set. There's a reason for that...I ain't the most educated baseball guy here, and as I'm cruising further and further outside my comfort zone (glad someone else picked up on that), I'm learning more and more about the things that work on a baseball uniform and those which don't--and, that, try as they might, some people just can't split their minds from the emotional attachment to tradition. (Understand that was just a joke.)

Just to put you all on notice...consider this set, and my next, as something of a "warm-up", for when I start getting to teams that could REALLY use a good makeover--those who as yet will remain nameless. But keep the good feedback coming...it's helping a brotha out big time over here.

To answer one point that was brought up--and it was a good one, by the Admiral--I seriously doubt that Imma end up doing a concept set for every team in the league, however--I haven't yet done so for any concept series I've done. (And I think that goes as far back as my Airline Football League series.) This one here was more or less borne out of a serious creative surge I've had lately--that coupled with the fact that I figured it's time I started branching myself out and taking on new challenges...see how good I really am (or if I am, period) at this here stuff.

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Meanwhile...it's on to the next set, for the time being--another one for which I've had a specific idea swirling for a very long time. Like the two before this, this isn't a full-scale change; more like a refreshening.

TWIN-CITIES TURNOVER: MINNESOTA TWINS

Next, we travel up to the land of 10,000 lakes to visit the Twin Cities--I guess, more specifically, Minneapolis. To be perfectly fair, I'm rather indifferent to baseball as a whole, particularly so for this team (maybe because it's one of what, seven or eight in the bigs who share the same colors of navy and red?). However, in perusing back through some photos and based off my casual observation of the game, I've noted some things abou the Twins that have popped up that I like.

Chief among them is that "TC" logo, for the "Twin Cities", obviously. Another is the "shaking hands" logo--one guy from Minneapolis, the other from St. Paul. Very interesting caricature with a very interesting meaning (though the cynic in me wonders how St. Paul residents feel about three of MN's four major pro sports teams being based over on the other side of the river). Anyway, I took time to retool those two logos, along with the underlined "m" logo, and, of course, the primary logo. And it was in doing just that--retooling (read: tracing) that primary Twins logo that I realized that the word "Minnesota" in that logo is written in a font that is verysimilar to the current proprietary font that the NFL uses! Well, naturally, that got my cerebellum to spinning, and once it got done, I ended up spinning off some unique numbers for this set here (stay with me here)--and, I took that "Minnesota" word and altered it into a new chest script mark, thus replacing the old serified block letters (for this concept set).

Here's a look at all that:

I figure that, in a league so full of red and navy, at least the Twins could have some unique typography to help distinguish themselves a bit, no?

Okay...on to the uniform set now. Again, didn't make wholesale changes here; what I did do was add that "shaking hands" logo as a sleeve patch. Oh, and before I forget, the caps are navy with a blue brim. Now, I've seen navy-brimmed red caps with the "TC" logo before...though, in my mind, the red-brimmed navy cap matched better with the home set. (Imma let y'all decide that one.) The primary home set remains largely unchanged here; the primary road ser now has the new "Minnesota" script across the front. (Question for Twins fans out there: pinstipes = good or =/= good???) Of course, I already mentioned about the new numbers; I also changed one other thing--and this is because I have yet to see a singular MLB team do this--that being the nameplate typography, which now is serified block, which was done to sorta match the new "Minnesota" script mark. (One other question: do the Twins currently use nameplates or are the player names sewn directly onto the jerseys? It'd seem kinda silly to have a solid piece of fabric obscuring some pinstripes, bu I also wouldn't be entirely surprised, either.) Only because I've seen one before, I've also added a vested home alt with the "TC" logo at the chest. Navy alt jersey, other than new nameplate and numbers, also remains largely unchanged. One thing I did do (which may not have been a good move) was match an all-navy cap with the little "m" to both the road set and navy alt.

Here's all that for you to see:

Okay...so there's all that.

This may be the last one I post for a few days, just to kinda gauge where I am with what I've got so far so that I'll have a better idea where to go with the ones that are coming. In the meantime...I'll continue to welcome all feedback and commentary on this set and the other two I've posted as well...as well as any ideas/suggestions any of y'all might have...so holla back @ me here and let a brotha know somethin' here!

~Buc

[logocruncher]

I'm really liking this set. Really good look. I like how the caps' brims are different for home and road. The red brim at home really brings out the typography. I'm actually not a big pinstripe fan (other than for my team, the Yankees), especially on gray jerseys (not enough contrast to work, in my opinion), so on the road jerseys in particular I'd eliminate them. Maybe get rid of them on that home vest (I love that vest, by the way, but I think that pinstripes add unnecessary clutter), but I'd keep it on the home primary. And as much as I like that shaking hands sleeve patch, it's WAY too cluttered. Just stick the primary on the sleeve for sharpness' sake.

All in all, a great effort. Just clean up a couple things and you're set. I love how this is progressing.

P.S. Is the team you're hinting at for the next redesign the Blue Jays? I sure hope so...they need it! Both them and the Rockies.

[ryanlion13]

I love the logo and script changes you made to the Twins set. I'm not too crazy about sticking with the pinstripe sets, especially the gray. One thing I've noticed about good baseball sets is that teams who use pinstripes at home often don't do it away. Yanks, Mets, Cubs? Those are just the prominents. I always thought the look was bad, particularly on the Twins. I might suggest trying the removal of the stripes from the grey set, and maybe going for wider stripes on the home.

After that post I completely understand what you're mindset is with these concepts, grasping what works and what doesn't with baseball. My best advice is to look into the history of each team and find a classic set that stands out, either due to the prominent success of the generations team or due to the great look of the uniform. Then take it and tweak it so it would work today, update the logos and scripts add or subtract a little from the uniform. Thats what some of the successful teams have done recently with their uniforms, look at the Pirates. Their set is great (well excluding the pinstripe vest alt for home and the red disasters). They took a classic style from the 50s/60s and updated it. Try that approach. I'm assuming you've been to "Dressed to the 9's"

Personally, if you don't mind my own opinion: I'm not a fan of vests. The only one I've ever liked was the Pirates. I also think pinstripes over saturate the game. The Yanks and Cubs and Mets do it well. I'd love to see everyone else go in a different direction (cough Phillies cough). I'm not crazy about "softball" solid color alts, but thats just the nature of the game - selling product. I love simple classic looks. Piping down pants and around sleeves. Great wordmarks. City affiliated logos on the Caps (STL's instead of a picture of a Cardinal). Stripes on stirrup socks. I can't stress how much I love stripes on stirrup socks.

Oh, and if you really want to go bold try cream instead of white for home jerseys. Or try bluer grey for the away. Nothing looks better then those vintage shots with cream of off white home jerseys and nice crisp grays. Todays grays usually suck.

[JayJaxon]

Let's start with the positive- I love that you are using new numbers. Too many teams have the same style of numbers. I like the TC logo and the "shaking hands" patch too, and it is good to see them in the set.

Semi-negative- Other than the road wordmark, at first glance I can't see a change in the set. I guess because with the Yankees and Giants sets, the changes were fairly obvious. I like the "Minnesota" wordmark, but I would not really call it an improvement over the current one they have. It's not worse, but not better either (if that makes sense) The concept itself is nice and clean, as are all of your other ones, but it is lacking in innovation despite the road wordmark change.

Other Observations- If I were to make a choice, I would say no to the pinstripes on home AND road sets for the Twins. I don't think the set would really be lacking without them. I am also not a fan of pinstripes on road unis. So especially with those, keeping them off could make them look better. Perhaps some piping instead of pinstripes?

Overall you did a great job as always. This is my least favorite of your three so far, and I think it's just because nothing jumps off the screen to me as 'different'. For someone out of their comfort zone, you are doing an excellent job though.

[BBTV]

I really don't like mixing stylized scripts / wordmarks with stylized number fonts. I think that a standard block number font can really make a good script or wordmark "pop". I think this is the case with your Twins concept. I think that a block number on the front would be an improvement.

On the other hand, I think that the opposite is true on the back. I think that a plain sans-serif NOB would make the stylized numbers stand out more.

[TC]

As a HUGE Twins fan, here is my take on the set...

-Much praise for not going with the "shaking hands" logo as the primary. I love the logo, but I feel it is not strong enough to be used as a primary.

-I like the sleeveless jersey, the one used now is thoughtless crap. Although the undershirt looks like the navy alternate, I would remove the red stripes and replace the patch with the "shaking hands" logo, to match the other home uniform.

-I love the "Minnesota" script, but I am not sure how I feel about the number set, I think it could work.

-not liking the "TC" alternate logo. I would just keep it the same as it is now, navy "T" with a red "C". This leads me to the hat...

-Not a fan of the hat, I would keep it the same as it already is, navy with white "T" and a red "C".

-I think you should remove the sleeve, neck/button, and thick stripe on the pants on all of the pinstriped uniforms. They just seem to add clutter and look quite strange to me.

Overall it is a very good set, I would not hesitate to say it is the best Twins set I have seen. Now to answer some of your questions. I feel that the pinstripes on the grays are a good thing. They are unique to the Twins, and I can only think of one other team that has pinstripes on their grays (Rockies). And yes, the Twins do use nameplates. It really doesn't look too bad if you see them.

Any ways, great job on the set!

[grmuckrakers]

I LOVE the wordmark on the road jerseys.

[BJBerthiaume]

Very nicely done with the Twins. I love the pinstripes, but I would like to see an alternate with no pinstripes... The alternate you have here is phenominal... I'm not so sure about the hat, maybe use a blue brim or the old logo with a red brim... Love the new numbers and script for Minnesota...

[TwinsTerritory]

I LOVE the wordmark on the road jerseys.

Me too. What font did you use for that and the numbers? These look really nice.

I've always wondered what the team would look like with red jerseys...

[siegel0572]

This is another nice uniform set. I like the shoulder patch, it's classic Twins. I myself like the pinstripes and think the Twins are one of the teams that do stipes well. As far as the wordmark, I'm not sure exactly how many do, but I do know that the Cincinnati Reds use their wordmark font for their names on the jerseys. Also, and this is a guess, but I would imagine that most teams use nameplates instead of individual letters nowadays. With the way players move up and down today, instead of making up a whole new jersey, it's easier to take off a nameplate than each letter.

[TC]

This is another nice uniform set. I like the shoulder patch, it's classic Twins. I myself like the pinstripes and think the Twins are one of the teams that do stipes well. As far as the wordmark, I'm not sure exactly how many do, but I do know that the Cincinnati Reds use their wordmark font for their names on the jerseys. Also, and this is a guess, but I would imagine that most teams use nameplates instead of individual letters nowadays. With the way players move up and down today, instead of making up a whole new jersey, it's easier to take off a nameplate than each letter.

I'm pretty sure they give players brand-new uniforms, not used ones.

[RoughRiders9]

This is another nice uniform set. I like the shoulder patch, it's classic Twins. I myself like the pinstripes and think the Twins are one of the teams that do stipes well. As far as the wordmark, I'm not sure exactly how many do, but I do know that the Cincinnati Reds use their wordmark font for their names on the jerseys. Also, and this is a guess, but I would imagine that most teams use nameplates instead of individual letters nowadays. With the way players move up and down today, instead of making up a whole new jersey, it's easier to take off a nameplate than each letter.

I'm pretty sure they give players brand-new uniforms, not used ones.

In the Majors, they do give them new jerseys, but down in the minors, they do take the nameplates off.

But onto the concept, I just love the vested look for the homes. It's beautiful IMO.

BTW, Brandon, did you get my PM?