2009 MLB Season Thread

[BBTV]

On the PIT issue, there is a lot here, so much so that I am somewhat sorry that I made the crack about 20+ consecutive losing seasons. For the sake of not posting all the other comments, I will write this in Word and just respond to select comments. Sorry if I am late to the party, "Wheelhouse" and NJTank, but NJTank is used to it. I am sorry in not directly addressing each recent poster.

1-In the last 16 seasons, PIT has won only 43.75% of their games. 1104 wins – 1419 losses through the 2008 season.

2-They ARE a small market. After 20 minutes of looking to see the local contract numbers, I failed to see recent/current numbers, you cannot base media size on the money which they receive. In MLB and the NHL, you cannot equate metro populations from Neilson or Arbitron in terms of the value of the media contract since that audience is very limited when compared to local news.

3-Unemployment in the Pittsburgh area rose a tenth of a percentage point to 7.6 percent in June, its highest rate in nearly 23 years, according to the latest numbers from the state Department of Labor & Industry. However, the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for the seven-county Pittsburgh metropolitan statistical area is below Pennsylvania's rate of 8.3 percent, and the national rate of 9.5 percent, the agency said. This does not mean that season tickets to the Pirates or even Penguins are a necessity. Especially since August is the trial for casino gambling.

4-Honestly, after Carl Barger left for Marlins (and subsequently died to the delight of many Tampa Bay folks), the team has not been the same in terms of player development and management. This does not clear ownership entirely from 1993-2007, but if the best "hot shot" from other teams gets hired, but can't run the team or draft well, is it really the fault of then owner McClatchy? He got you the revenue stream necessary, but I will admit he had a GM who was just "there". Then again did Bonifay and Littlefield have such poor judgement in terms of talent (scouts) and player development that they just hoped for guys to be productive just to trade them? That sounds very much against sabermetrics.

See I dont buy the small market argument, they have a revenue generating stadium and still cant win, they cant seem to develop great players and they never get top notch prospects when they do make trades, to me the Pirates problem is they are run on the cheap, and the owners are content with a profit at years end even if it means losing, instead of investing into the team.

AGAIN - teams make TONS of money through rights fees and advertising / sponsorships, which is DIRECTLY related to market size / stability. The Red Sox or Yankees could probably play in front of empty stadiums for the next couple of years, and still make money. Of course, it's always better when the team owns it's own distribution system (like YES.)

dfwabel went somewhere that I wasn't going to go, but is probably relevant - the economics of the area. Frankly speaking, it ain't great. I don't have the stats, but I know that every time I go out there to visit friends, another one is telling me about how their employeer shut down, and they have to leave the area to get jobs (good, white-collar jobs too.) I'm not trying to make it out to be the worst place in the world, but the local business community is very reflective of what would be considered "small market." There was an article (I think in US News) about how Pittsburgh has become the number 1 or 2 city in terms of "Brain Drain" - percentage of local college graduates who were originally from the area who had to leave to get jobs. That ain't good. Also, just look at real estate prices (which I do) and look at how inexpensive everything is there compared to "big market" cities.

There are pretty easy signs that point to the "classification" of a city... and they all point to small market in this case.

It should also be noted that the term "small market" is totally relative. We're talking about an industry like MLB, which markets in NY, LA, CHI, BOS, PHI, SF, etc. If we were talking about some other industry that was infiltrating only Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Buffalo, etc., then Pitt. wouldn't be considered small market.

[BBTV]

I know I tease Pittsburgh a lot, so I don't want anyone to take any of my previous posts as "slams" or anything like that - just stating facts relevant to the discussion.

Anyway, here's an article discussing the level and future of the prospects that the Phillies gave the Indians. Seems pretty much in-line with everything else I've heard about these guys.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/200907...o_land_Lee.html

[JayJaxon]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

[njmeadowlanders]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

In other news, sun to rise in east, set in west...

And by the way its a New York Times report that ESPN is acknowledging...

[Jigga]

Wow...they did? I'm SHOCKED! All this time, I though Barry Bonds was the only guy on steroids, since that's what we were led to believe. Oh, I say and I say it again, I've been had! I've been took! I've been hoodwinked! Bamboozled! Led astray! Run amok! This is what they've done!

[BrySmalls]

Is it me, or when all this steroids talk dies down, a report "is leaked" about a player or players who took PEDs at a certain point of time?

[TFoA]

It's more like whenever a player denies it, their name gets leaked. Almost all of the players whose names have been leaked came out after they adamantly denied it. Palmeiro, A-Rod, Sosa, David Ortiz, and a few others. I've honestly got a problem with it. Whoever's got control of these names is basically using it to keep these players in check. Just release the whole damn list and be done with it.

With that said, the sun rising in the morning is more surprising than finding out that these two were caught doping in 2003.

[njmeadowlanders]

Heard someone on one of the local sports-radio stations (forget which one) say that the Phillies got "Milwooded" - a reference to when they thought they had an ace by acquiring Kevin Milwood for a dispensible prospect (Johnny Estrada IIRC).

Milwood proved to be an out of shape POS who was completely undependable, and the feeling is that the Braves knew something about him that the Phillies didn't.

Johnny Estrada turned out to be an out of shape POS too! Isn't he out of baseball? I think he couldn't hack it with the Nats.

That's kind of the point though - Milwood was coming off of an 18-8 season, and the Phillies got him for a guy like Estrada. Everyone was laughing at the Braves for giving up a "stud" like Milwood for a "scrub" like Estrada.

Milwood threw a no-hitter at CBP, but other than that was booed relentlessly due to his poor performances, and inability to be able to handle the fan and media attention in Philadelphia, and his desire to go to a midwest or southern town with less pressure.

Not to be that guy, but he threw his no-no at The Vet...

[Sport]

Is it me, or when all this steroids talk dies down, a report "is leaked" about a player or players who took PEDs at a certain point of time?

They just need to release the list all at once so we can get over this whole thing. Instead of individual players going through the whole charade of "I apologize for using steroids, but also I only used them to help come back from an injury" line every couple months, we can just use that as the blanket assumption for every name on the list. I think in this time when it's so obvious who used that it's more about the principle of just admitting that you were caught and it will make you look better than the Bonds and Clemens of the world who've tried to dodge and deny the issue for the last ten years.

Gary Sheffield is the perfect example. He admitted to using steroids and then a few weeks later when he hit his 500th homer everybody seemed to forget what he said just a short time earlier.

[Breakwood]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Time to vacate all the Red Sox wins from that date

[BBTV]

Heard someone on one of the local sports-radio stations (forget which one) say that the Phillies got "Milwooded" - a reference to when they thought they had an ace by acquiring Kevin Milwood for a dispensible prospect (Johnny Estrada IIRC).

Milwood proved to be an out of shape POS who was completely undependable, and the feeling is that the Braves knew something about him that the Phillies didn't.

Johnny Estrada turned out to be an out of shape POS too! Isn't he out of baseball? I think he couldn't hack it with the Nats.

That's kind of the point though - Milwood was coming off of an 18-8 season, and the Phillies got him for a guy like Estrada. Everyone was laughing at the Braves for giving up a "stud" like Milwood for a "scrub" like Estrada.

Milwood threw a no-hitter at CBP, but other than that was booed relentlessly due to his poor performances, and inability to be able to handle the fan and media attention in Philadelphia, and his desire to go to a midwest or southern town with less pressure.

Not to be that guy, but he threw his no-no at The Vet...

D'oh!

[BrySmalls]

Is it me, or when all this steroids talk dies down, a report "is leaked" about a player or players who took PEDs at a certain point of time?

They just need to release the list all at once so we can get over this whole thing. Instead of individual players going through the whole charade of "I apologize for using steroids, but also I only used them to help come back from an injury" line every couple months, we can just use that as the blanket assumption for every name on the list. I think in this time when it's so obvious who used that it's more about the principle of just admitting that you were caught and it will make you look better than the Bonds and Clemens of the world who've tried to dodge and deny the issue for the last ten years.

Gary Sheffield is the perfect example. He admitted to using steroids and then a few weeks later when he hit his 500th homer everybody seemed to forget what he said just a short time earlier.

I believe that the NY Times is holding the list ransom and will, over time, release names at random.

[Cujo]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Stunning news.

Is there a star player from the early 00s who didn't use? I honestly think Pujols will be next to join the club.

[STL FANATIC]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Stunning news.

Is there a star player from the early 00s who didn't use? I honestly think Pujols will be next to join the club.

Honestly want.

That may or may not be true. My guess is for baseball's sake, it's not. Just using your Cubs fandom to light-heartedly draw a conclusion. But in seriousness, while you have to be crazy to declare anything 100% on this issue, if there's one star worth trusting, it's probably Albert. If he ends up testing positive, he may look worse than anybody before him for all the declarations he's made about being clean. He says he was tested six times last year alone and challenges someone to come test him on any day, though I doubt as if he'd actually take anyone up on that.

Not to start a debate on religion, but Pujols clearly believes in an all-powerful, all-knowing God, and he's brought that into the discussion a number of times saying he's to fearful of God to do something dumb like that and says that those kind of things always come to light, so it's absolutely stupid to do it.

I know I know, I'm getting on my Cardinal run here, but there was actually a really good article in USA Today a few weeks back about how Albert now realizes the responsibility he has as a clean star. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: Here's the article: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl...er-pujols_N.htm

[infrared41]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Here we go again. The Sports Guy will be beside himself. Can't wait to read that column. I wonder how he'll work The Karate Kid into it. It's too bad. Those two were the only Red Sox players I ever liked.

[NEW.ERA]

So does this mean Papi will leave the league seeing the MLB doesn't kick you out.

[See Red]

I'll say the same thing I said about A-Rod, and Bonds, and everyone who came before them...

Who cares? Not I. Everybody was juiced.

[infrared41]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Stunning news.

Is there a star player from the early 00s who didn't use? I honestly think Pujols will be next to join the club.

Honestly want.

That may or may not be true. Just using your Cubs fandom to light-heartedly draw a conclusion. But in seriousness, while you have to be crazy to declare anything 100% on this issue, if there's one star worth trusting, it's probably Albert. If he ends up testing positive, he may look worse than anybody before him for all the declarations he's made about being clean. He says he was tested six times last year alone and challenges someone to come test him on any day, though I doubt as if he'd actually take anyone up on that.

Not to start a debate on religion, but Pujols clearly believes in an all-powerful, all-knowing God, and he's brought that into the discussion a number of times saying he's to fearful of God to do something dumb like that and says that those kind of things always come to light, so it's absolutely stupid to do it.

I know I know, I'm getting on my Cardinal run here, but there was actually a really good article in USA Today a few weeks back about how Albert now realizes the responsibility he has as a clean star. I'll see if I can find it.

I sure hope you're right. He's my last hope.

[njmeadowlanders]

I'm more interested for the LeBron James on HGH report than any of the baseball ones. Everyone knows MLB was full of it. I can't wait for everyone to find out about an NBA HGH bombshell and have everyone flipping out when they shouldn't be.

[Cujo]

ESPN is reporting that Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz both tested positive for PED's in 2003.

Stunning news.

Is there a star player from the early 00s who didn't use? I honestly think Pujols will be next to join the club.

Honestly want.

That may or may not be true. Just using your Cubs fandom to light-heartedly draw a conclusion. But in seriousness, while you have to be crazy to declare anything 100% on this issue, if there's one star worth trusting, it's probably Albert. If he ends up testing positive, he may look worse than anybody before him for all the declarations he's made about being clean. He says he was tested six times last year alone and challenges someone to come test him on any day, though I doubt as if he'd actually take anyone up on that.

Not to start a debate on religion, but Pujols clearly believes in an all-powerful, all-knowing God, and he's brought that into the discussion a number of times saying he's to fearful of God to do something dumb like that and says that those kind of things always come to light, so it's absolutely stupid to do it.

I know I know, I'm getting on my Cardinal run here, but there was actually a really good article in USA Today a few weeks back about how Albert now realizes the responsibility he has as a clean star. I'll see if I can find it.

I sure hope you're right. He's my last hope.

And before that, everyone trusted A-Rod and wanted him to be the man to pass Barry cause he we all knew he was clean and pure.

Personally, I don't trust a single player who played during the steroid-era. Not Pujols. Not Griffey. None of 'em.