Jaguars considering playing some games in Orlando

[STL FANATIC]

It wouldn't kill me if the Rams moved divisions. The only rivalry that's been kept in tact for any length of time is the 49ers. And make no mistake, that's still a rivalry, but it's not what it was when the Rams were in LA.

They could move on without each other, and the St. Louis Rams could develop their own rivalries. They have developed their own with the Seahawks. The Cardinals is a nice one for the obvious reason. But niether of those are necessarily any stronger than the rivalries they had with the Bucs and the Saints for a few years.

So I guess my point is that at this juncture, all of their rivalries are breakable, so re-aligning them to a more logical (not that the West is terribly illogical) division wouldn't be a bad thing.

[DustDevil61]

Let's not forget that, unless Checketts and Co. buy the Rams (or somebody else with St. Louis ties shows up to do so), they very well could be heading (back) to Los Angeles as well. They're not quite as likely as the Chargers or Jaguars, but there's still a good chance of that happening. Either way, the LA stadium is pretty much ready to build (they've seemed to clear all major hurdles), and now it's a matter of time before someone ends up in Los Angeles.

[STL FANATIC]

Oh, I don't think anybody's forgotten.

But, the Rams are pretty determined to only sell to a St. Louis buyer, so while I'm not 100% comfortable with the situation, I'm not yet to panic or even worry-mode.

[leopard88]

I'd be surprised if the NFL jumped right into 2-teams in LA, though. Not that they couldn't support, but I just don't think you do it within 3 years of each other.

The NFL may want a team in LA, and they may ideally want two teams there eventually, but they can't ignore the fact that this is still a market that lost two teams relatively recently.

Although the Rams struggled their last few years in LA, the market wasn't blamed for both clubs moving at the time and shouldn't be blamed in retrospect.

Al Davis left over stadium issues, plain and simple. The NFL thought highly enough of the LA market at the time that it not only tried to convince Davis to stay but was planning to put a second team in LA had the Hollywood Park stadium been built.

I don't think the NFL feels that, once a stadium is built, the market needs much time to develop before it can handle a second team. And make no mistake, that stadium issue is the only reason LaLaLand doesn't have a team right now - the NFL has certainly made its position clear.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with, I agree with all of that. I'm just saying that seeing as the NFL wants LA to work, they're going to want to ease into it rather then overload it right off that bat. LA will get one team within five years. A second, some time after that.

One problem with the "ease it into it" approach, assuming the NFL envisions two teams in LA, is that it may well doom one team to second class status. The first team in would have the advantage of developing its fan base in advance, leaving the second team to try to poach off of that fan base.

That does not mean that the second team couldn't succeed, given that the NFL's current two-team markets involve an older team and a newer one (ex., Giants-Jets, 49ers-Raiders). However, in both of those instances the second team was able to play the angle of being in a rival league. In any case, there is certainly an inherent disadvantage in being second that is worthy of consideration by the league (and the teams looking to move).

[Gothamite]

Good point. I was looking at it from the League's perspective, not the fans'.

Pretty good argument for moving two at once - nobody wants to be second to the finish line. Unless the second relocated team is pretty successful right out of the gate (I'm thinking that would mean Chargers), they'd be doomed to second-class status. Hardly the fresh beginning that a relocated team would be seeking.

Then again, the Rams - as Prodigal Son - might be able to overcome this. Or might think that they can overcome this.

[DustDevil61]

As we all expected, Gov. Schwarzenegger signed the LA Stadium Bill, which only gives more cause for concern for the Jags, Chargers, etc.

[The_Admiral]

Okay, think I found a number for yesterday's attendance - 42,088.

That's 25,000 empty seats even after they tarped off those sections.

Apparently actual attendance was 38,425. That's an uh-oh.

[BaltimoreFan]

What are other American markets that could legitimately support an NFL franchise? Besides LA, which obviously could support a team on population alone, I really cant think of a city that could viably support a team.

Omaha?

Oklahoma City?

Portland?

Memphis?

Louisville?

I think that as far as US cities are concerned, the NFL's line of though is get an LA franchise (I am beginning to think Jacksonville Jaguars is the NFLs preference) and they are pretty much set in the US. I think its possible Toronto is being thought about, I think maybe London is being somewhat considered, possibly a few other places like Mexico City, but its tough to imagine many other places being able to pull in 60,000 regularly, especially with the NFL's locations set up as they are right now.

Didn't the mayor of Chicago talk about a having a second team not too long ago? I know thats a long shot, but it seems like a better option than London or Mexico City. Really after LA and Toronto the possible cities for relocation really drop off. 32 markets seems to be about the limit (for now anyway).

I think the best situation is just for the Jaguars to move to LA (or a I guess the Rams to LA and the Jaguars to St. Louis). Three teams in Florida is just too many IMO, and Jacksonville is the weakest of them. I hate to say a team should move, but not selling out a single game this season is pretty bad.

[The_Admiral]

Didn't the mayor of Chicago talk about a having a second team not too long ago? I know thats a long shot, but it seems like a better option than London or Mexico City.

Well, when one place is a quarter-turn around the world and the other is enveloped in a cloud of airborne feces, I guess trying to directly compete with the goddamn Chicago Bears seems like a savvy business move. Do you believe the McCaskeys or the league would let a second team in the market? Do you believe any owner would be so stupid as to try? Come on. Think here. As for the mayor of Chicago, he talks about a lot of things. Big deal. He's probably not going to talk too much about a second NFL team now that the world shoved a red-hot torch up his ass.

[illwauk]

Good point. I was looking at it from the League's perspective, not the fans'.

Pretty good argument for moving two at once - nobody wants to be second to the finish line. Unless the second relocated team is pretty successful right out of the gate (I'm thinking that would mean Chargers), they'd be doomed to second-class status. Hardly the fresh beginning that a relocated team would be seeking.

Then again, the Rams - as Prodigal Son - might be able to overcome this. Or might think that they can overcome this.

I think either the Rams (being the NFL's original LA club) or the Chargers (also having LA roots and having been the city's default home team for the past 15 years) could overcome their "second-class" status. But if either one of them beats the Jags to lala land, the Jags can expect nothing more than to become the NFL's LA Clippers.

I think the best case scenario here would be to move the Rams and Chargers to LA together (for historical reasons) and open up St. Louis for the Jags. That would save all of the realignment headaches in the process.

[The_Admiral]

As ideal as it is to move the Jaguars to St. Louis and the Rams to Los Angeles, I worry about the viability of the Jaguars in this scenario. To do a quick turnaround and say "okay St. Louis you like THIS team now" seems doomed to fail. What if they don't wanna turn into Jags fans? Then they've salted the earth in Jacksonville and St. Louis.

I'd kind of prefer that San Diego keeps the Chargers, by the by.

[STL FANATIC]

The whole Rams to LA, Jags to STL stuff is absurd.

It COULD happen if the Jags can stave off moving for 5+ years and things go worst case for the Rams. The Rams then may move to LA and the Jags still may have to find somewhere that isn't Jacksonville. So I'm not going to sit here and say it's 100% impossible.

But the suggestion that it would somehow be PLANNED that the Rams would move and the Jags would immediately replace them is nuts. You don't move two teams if you can only move one.

Now it will depend on a lot of factors. The Jags and Rams owners will obviously have a lot to do with it. But I just don't see it working like that. It's certainly not going to happen because "the Rams belong in LA" and "it's an easier alignment fix."

[Brian in Boston]

I'd kind of prefer that San Diego keeps the Chargers, by the by.

Barring a major turnaround on the part of both the City and County of San Diego - or, some other municipality within the county limits - with regard to helping finance construction of a new facility, the Chargers staying put is a longshot. Frankly, given the fact that the Chargers can buy their way out of San Diego after this season, they're the odds-on favorite to relocate to Los Angeles first. Factor in Ed Roski's personal and professional relationship with the Spanos family and I'd say that the Bolts are as close to a lock to move to LA as is possible.

[BaltimoreFan]

Didn't the mayor of Chicago talk about a having a second team not too long ago? I know thats a long shot, but it seems like a better option than London or Mexico City.

Well, when one place is a quarter-turn around the world and the other is enveloped in a cloud of airborne feces, I guess trying to directly compete with the goddamn Chicago Bears seems like a savvy business move. Do you believe the McCaskeys or the league would let a second team in the market? Do you believe any owner would be so stupid as to try? Come on. Think here. As for the mayor of Chicago, he talks about a lot of things. Big deal. He's probably not going to talk too much about a second NFL team now that the world shoved a red-hot torch up his ass.

Jeez, I was just commenting on how poor the options were once LA and Toronto are taken. Chicago makes alot more sense than any of the others options either in the US or outside. Plus it was in the news fairly recently. I highly doubt it happens, but IMO Chicago is teh third best option. Which means I'm basically saying one LA and Toronto get teams there probably won't be relocation again for a long time (with the exception of St. Louis if they lose the Rams)

As ideal as it is to move the Jaguars to St. Louis and the Rams to Los Angeles, I worry about the viability of the Jaguars in this scenario. To do a quick turnaround and say "okay St. Louis you like THIS team now" seems doomed to fail. What if they don't wanna turn into Jags fans? Then they've salted the earth in Jacksonville and St. Louis.

Having a team is alot better than not having a team. I'm sure the people of St. Louis would rather root for the team that wants to play in the city than the team that doesn't. If the Jaguars fail in St. Louis its because the people in St. Louis don't want a football team. In 1984 in Baltimore we would have gladly traded that Colts for the Buccanears (I'm guessing the inept franchise of the time, I'm wasn't alive to really know) rather than go without football for 13 years.

[IceCap]

I REALLY don't get the Jags to StL line of thinking. The reason the Rams are considered a favourite to move is because of stadium issues. The city won't build them a new home, and the EJ Dome isn't going to remain viable.

If they won't build one for the Rams, why would they build one for the Jags?

I'd kind of prefer that San Diego keeps the Chargers, by the by.

Barring a major turnaround on the part of both the City and County of San Diego - or, some other municipality within the county limits - with regard to helping finance construction of a new facility, the Chargers staying put is a longshot. Frankly, given the fact that the Chargers can buy their way out of San Diego after this season, they're the odds-on favorite to relocate to Los Angeles first. Factor in Ed Roski's personal and professional relationship with the Spanos family and I'd say that the Bolts are as close to a lock to move to LA as is possible.

Hey, we agree on a team relocation topic. Huzzah.

Anyway the Chargers will be the first to move. That leaves the Rams and Jags in a race for the last spot.

Here's a question though, what if it's the Rams? Where do the Jags go? Things aren't working out in JAX, but they're not putting three teams in LA. So what's left?

[rams80]

I REALLY don't get the Jags to StL line of thinking. The reason the Rams are considered a favourite to move is because of stadium issues. The city won't build them a new home, and the EJ Dome isn't going to remain viable.

If they won't build one for the Rams, why would they build one for the Jags?

I'd kind of prefer that San Diego keeps the Chargers, by the by.

Barring a major turnaround on the part of both the City and County of San Diego - or, some other municipality within the county limits - with regard to helping finance construction of a new facility, the Chargers staying put is a longshot. Frankly, given the fact that the Chargers can buy their way out of San Diego after this season, they're the odds-on favorite to relocate to Los Angeles first. Factor in Ed Roski's personal and professional relationship with the Spanos family and I'd say that the Bolts are as close to a lock to move to LA as is possible.

Hey, we agree on a team relocation topic. Huzzah.

Anyway the Chargers will be the first to move. That leaves the Rams and Jags in a race for the last spot.

Here's a question though, what if it's the Rams? Where do the Jags go? Things aren't working out in JAX, but they're not putting three teams in LA. So what's left?

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH CANNNNNNNNNADAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!

OUR HOME AND NATIVE LAAAAANNNNNNDDDDDD!!!!!!

[IceCap]

Everyone keeps saying that, but it's not happening.

[STL FANATIC]

For the record, the city has said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what they're willing to do about the Rams stadium. No politicians have said they won't built/renovate. And no vote has asked the public anything.

If there was a vote today, I don't think they'd get it, but I think there's a general feeling of "a lot can change in 4-5 years, let's see where we are when we need to decide". So I think everyone is premature in assuming the Rams won't get a stadium deal done.

If whoever owns the team then demands it be agreed on by the opt out date or they move, then they'll probably move. But if they're seeking to stay in STL and willing to be flexible, I think there's a good chance with a little patience, they'll have their stadium.

That said, even if St. Louis has no plans to build a stadium and does end up losing the Rams... it's not like the Jones Dome is falling apart...AT ALL. The Jags would still probably be more profitable playing to sold-out crowds in a mid to low-range Jones Dome than they are in a slightly newer stadium in Jacksonville. At this juncture anyways.

The only reason the Rams Stadium is an issue is because of the lease they gave the Rams to move here saying they had to be in the top 25% of stadiums. On a normal lease, the Rams maybe would be eyeing the possibility of a new stadium, but they wouldn't be demanding it quite this quickly.

[STL FANATIC]

Everyone keeps saying that, but it's not happening.

And the biggest reason isn't even the one you're thinking (I think). It's that a team besides the Bills will not be utilizing the Toronto market. Either the Bills move there, or nobody does.

[illwauk]

The whole Rams to LA, Jags to STL stuff is absurd.

It COULD happen if the Jags can stave off moving for 5+ years and things go worst case for the Rams. The Rams then may move to LA and the Jags still may have to find somewhere that isn't Jacksonville. So I'm not going to sit here and say it's 100% impossible.

But the suggestion that it would somehow be PLANNED that the Rams would move and the Jags would immediately replace them is nuts. You don't move two teams if you can only move one.

Now it will depend on a lot of factors. The Jags and Rams owners will obviously have a lot to do with it. But I just don't see it working like that. It's certainly not going to happen because "the Rams belong in LA" and "it's an easier alignment fix."

I didn't say saything about how likely I thought I was to happen. All I said was that would be the scenario with the least amount of headaches regarding historical lineage and divisional alignment... yeesh...

What I think will REALLY happen is the Rams will find a St. Louis buyer and the Chargers will beat the Jags to LA. This will put the Jags in an awkward position since the NFL is far less likely to allow them to move to LA with another AFC team already there. They'll pitifully do the Jacksonville/Orlando thing for a couple years while flirting with places like San Antonio and Birmingham, but when the smoke clears and dust settles, the Jaguars new home will be......

......San Diego!

After LA, I honestly can't imagine any city being willing to build a new stadium in this economy. The Jaguars will eventually reason that playing in a outdated venue in Southern California and drawing a respectable number of fans still beats doing the same in North Florida, Central Texas or Alabama and drawing no one.