Jaguars considering playing some games in Orlando

[illwauk]

Ok... this isn't exactly back on topic, but it's not Limbaugh talk and still ties in with the general idea with the thread...

Two things seem inevitable... the Bills moving to Toronto and the Big East expanding to twelve football schools. Given this, I keep thinking maybe it'd be best if Buffalo jettisoned the Bills asap. The UBuffalo football team could really use the support (read: influx of cash from season tickets that would be ordered) from displaced Bills fans. There's not too many FBS teams in the northeast that aren't already affiliated with the Big East, so how many winning seasons would the Bulls really need to string together to get the invite?

Maybe some WNY'ers will disagree, but it seems like big time college football coming/returning to Buffalo is the best possible outcome here.

Buffalo is one school. What other 3 schools are they going to add (or existing members are they going to talk into bringing their programs up?) Also wouldn't adding more schools to the Super East in other sports make the Conference completely unmanageable?

If you ask me, the conference is unmanageable as it is. But since when has adding the football schools needed for a championship game stopped any big conference from throwing the alignment of its other sports into chaos? (ACC, I'm looking at you). Although I think that the moment the Big East adds any more football schools is the moment the non-football schools break off and form their own conference.

And another thing, the NFL in Toronto has yet to prove itself a rousing success. The Skydome is barely big enough for NFL games, and they've had trouble selling it out. I know that Toronto is a large untapped market, but maybe dwelling in the long shadow of the Maple Leafs isn't all it's cracked up to be.

True enough, but it didn't stop baseball and the NBA from setting up shop there, so I don't see why this would stop the NFL.

[rams80]

I know going way out there on LF,but if the Bills go across the Niagara Falls to Toronto,add UB Bulls and

ask G'town,V'nova and probably Hofstra or ask St.Johns to reinstate their FB program and

possibly ask BC to rejoin the Big East again and have Temple(previously involved in the Big East)

take their place in the ACC.

The Big East IMO if they were in a 12 school alignment:

Big East Football Division

North South

Syracuse W.Virginia

UConn Cincinnati

Rutgers Louisville

Hofstra So.Florida

V'Nova Georgetown

UBuffalo Pittsburgh

Boston College burned way too many bridges in the Big East on their way out for a reunion to even be considered. UConn still refuses to play them.

[The_Admiral]

And another thing, the NFL in Toronto has yet to prove itself a rousing success. The Skydome is barely big enough for NFL games, and they've had trouble selling it out. I know that Toronto is a large untapped market, but maybe dwelling in the long shadow of the Maple Leafs isn't all it's cracked up to be.

True enough, but it didn't stop baseball and the NBA from setting up shop there, so I don't see why this would stop the NFL.

The Blue Jays don't really compete with the Maple Leafs, though. The Raptors sort of do, but they're owned by the Maple Leafs anyway, so whatever. I suppose they do well enough. Nonetheless, I'm skeptical of the whole thing. The Bills fanbase is one of the league's most passionate, kind of the Packers in miniature. Even when the Blue Jays have done well, the knock on the Toronto sports landscape has always been that there's only one team that truly captures people's hearts, and it isn't the Bills. Is this the kind of place the NFL wants to be?

[KevinMcD]

If the Bills ever do leave Buffalo, even to Toronto they will lose, in my opinion, 75% of their fans, including most everybody in Metro Buffalo. If they move to say Niagara Falls, midway between Toronto and Buffalo I think I could still root for them, but that depends on the owner. If they move to Toronto, Los Angeles, etc no way I root for them. I doubt I would even root for another team in the NFL.

This is why UB will at least double their fanbase the day the Bills leave. As far as UB in the Big East, I can see it happening. The Big East obviously wants a Championship game, and this can only happen with a 12 team conference. I believe that even now, with the Bills still in Buffalo the Bulls could be one of these 4 teams. The Big East will not only be looking for athletics, academics and size of the school are huge things, UB is the largest state school in NY and a huge research university. Buffalo is the 2nd largest market in NYS and in Big East territory. This is the main reason that UB will be considered.

Other schools that I think could make a run at the Big East are Army, Navy, Memphis, UCF, ECU, Marshall, Temple and Notre Dame.

Army is a historical program in the NYC area with a fan base across the US.

Navy is another historical program with a fan base across the nation. It also is in the Baltimore/DC area.

Memphis is a school with a better athletic school and based in a larger city.

UCF is an up and coming athletic program with a huge student population and in a larger city in Orlando with a brand new football stadium.

ECU is a large school, but in a smaller city, I think they have a chance because of their better athletics and academics.

Marshall is a smaller university and in a smaller region, but they have had better athletics, so they have a chance.

Temple was in the Big East, but left, I do not know the reasons behind this, but I can see them coming back because they bring the Philly market and great academics.

Notre Dame is a long shot, they do not want to join a conference because of their contract with NBC. If they were to join one it would be the Big 10 or Big East. Big Ten has their rivals and a better overall programs, but they are in the Big East for Basketball, so I can see them going to the Big East in football, a longshot, but there is a small chance.

In my opinion if the Big East were to expand it would be Buffalo, Army, Navy and UCF, with Memphis being a close 5th.

[rams80]

Temple was kicked out of the Big East (for I believe general ineptitude), right at the same time the ACC was raiding it for programs. If the Big East didn't want them when they were losing programs, I fail to see how they'd want Temple now.

IIRC Louisville violently opposes Memphis' membership in the Big East due to a historic rivalry between the schools.

Army tried that Conference thing. It didn't really work. Additionally, Army and Navy have historically (well...for a few decades anyway) been at a Mid-major level in talent at best. Tradition is the big reason why they stay in Division IA. Note that said schools are in the Patriot League in other sports. As in The Last Amateurs Patriot League. These schools will not join a major revenue first Conference.

[RyanMcD29]

Once again though, adding 4 teams needs to be football only because there is simply no room in basketball, soccer, volleyball, or softball. Especially with basketball, because even if you want to boot St. Johns, Seton Hall, and DePaul, they represent the New York and Chicago markets. I'm not sure if the MAC would be too happy about UB going to the Big East for football and only football. I'm not saying Buffalo to the Big East wouldn't be a smart move. The college is really making gains in both their athletic and academic departments, plus they would have natural rivals with Syracuse and Pittsburgh. The problem is the logistics of it, as well as expanding to 12 teams in football, cannot work when you put all the other sports together in an already overcrowded conference. If we're turning this into a realignment thread for the Big East, then I propose having Villanova and Georgetown move up to CFB, force Notre Dame to join or boot them out of the conference for other sports, if they comply great, if not then you can add in Buffalo. Then replace DePaul, which one again comes at losing the Chicago market but they haven't made any noise in anything since joining the conference, with either Buffalo if ND doesn't accept or Army or something. There, that keeps the cap at 16 teams at hoops without making a monster conference any larger. Then for lacrosse, merge with the Ivy League considering Syracuse will probably win the Big East every single year anyway plus Cornell and Princeton are the only schools who ever win the Ivy. Now with that, if Notre Dame leaves the Big East because of the football situation, that at least gives someone a shot of knocking down the Orange (not that I want that to happen anyway, but..). Alright, considering I just completely screwed up the entire structure of the Big East between football, basketball, and even lacrosse which hasn't even started existing just yet, I'm gonna have to say let's kinda stop this Big East realignment and move onto issues with NFL teams

Oh, and i must add that none of this I posted will ever happen I bet

[KevinMcD]

Once again though, adding 4 teams needs to be football only because there is simply no room in basketball, soccer, volleyball, or softball. Especially with basketball, because even if you want to boot St. Johns, Seton Hall, and DePaul, they represent the New York and Chicago markets. I'm not sure if the MAC would be too happy about UB going to the Big East for football and only football. I'm not saying Buffalo to the Big East wouldn't be a smart move. The college is really making gains in both their athletic and academic departments, plus they would have natural rivals with Syracuse and Pittsburgh. The problem is the logistics of it, as well as expanding to 12 teams in football, cannot work when you put all the other sports together in an already overcrowded conference. If we're turning this into a realignment thread for the Big East, then I propose having Villanova and Georgetown move up to CFB, force Notre Dame to join or boot them out of the conference for other sports, if they comply great, if not then you can add in Buffalo. Then replace DePaul, which one again comes at losing the Chicago market but they haven't made any noise in anything since joining the conference, with either Buffalo if ND doesn't accept or Army or something. There, that keeps the cap at 16 teams at hoops without making a monster conference any larger. Then for lacrosse, merge with the Ivy League considering Syracuse will probably win the Big East every single year anyway plus Cornell and Princeton are the only schools who ever win the Ivy. Now with that, if Notre Dame leaves the Big East because of the football situation, that at least gives someone a shot of knocking down the Orange (not that I want that to happen anyway, but..). Alright, considering I just completely screwed up the entire structure of the Big East between football, basketball, and even lacrosse which hasn't even started existing just yet, I'm gonna have to say let's kinda stop this Big East realignment and move onto issues with NFL teams

I would assume the football teams would break off from the basketball only schools two from two conferences. Louisville, Cuse, Cincy, Pitt, WV, Rutgers, USF. UConn and the 4 new teams going to the football, and the other 8 staying in the basketball only conference, maybe adding a few teams.

Now back to the original topic, I can see the Jaguars moving before any other team, most likely to LA if they get a stadium. I could also see San Diego, Oakland or St. Louis moving before the Bills do, but that really depends on when Ralph dies.

[rams80]

Syracuse, at the least, would presumably fight against losing some of their bigger basketball rivals. UConn presumably would too.

The Jaguars might also make a fine candidate for the football Big East in the near future on the other hand.

[dfwabel]

This thread went from JAX to games in MCO (yes, I am using IATA codes), to the potential sale of the Rams, to Rush Limbaugh's involvment in a bidding ownership group for the Rams, to BUF, YYZ (still using IATA codes to educate many of you who do not travel), the University at Buffalo, The Big East to what else.

Earlier today, this thread was asked to have real thought on the original issue or do not post...it has not taken.

(I did join in on the Rush talk, I admit.)

[rams80]

Hey, my last post was about the Jaguars.

(Oh there's going to be karmic retribution for that post on Sunday. *sighs*)

[dfwabel]

Yet from the mods warning until KevinMcD's second post today there was not mention of JAX in this thread. Start a new Big East expansion thread or something more relevant to this discussion.

[Purple21]

Not sure the precedent would hold up, but Orlando has been used as a secondary market for Tampa-St. Pete's baseball team. Also, Orlando is a designated secondary market for the Buccaneers.

Regards

Purple

_____

dossier surendettement

[The_Admiral]

Why does the spambot have to plagiarize me? My posts aren't even any good!

[DarkJourney]

In my opinion the chicken sandwich at Burker King has gotten smaller

[RyanMcD29]

Alright, heading back on topic, I'm really not sure if the Bucs will be warm to this idea and at the same token I'm not sure how Orlando will support the Jaguars for whatever games they play. Florida has such a mish-mash of fanbases to begin with, between the 3 NFL teams, 4 NCAA teams, and quite a few other NFL teams with the snowbirds.

[Mac the Knife]

I believe the rules state that groups are only allowed to a point--one member of the group has to hold some large share, but I don't know what size.

The minimum for a 'majority' owner is now 30%. They implemented that several years ago, and it's a key reason Dan Rooney had to reorganize the ownership structure of the Pittsburgh Steelers earlier this year.

The team has a three-month window every February to inform San Diego city officials by letter that it's leaving town, breaking a lease that has the Chargers playing at Qualcomm Stadium through 2020. In 2010, a departure would cost the team $54.6 million, but the termination fee drops to $25.8 million in 2011.

I had no idea the City of San Diego's hold on the Chargers was so tenuous. Sorry, but this puts them first on the list of franchises that could be heading to Los Angeles. After 2010, $25 million isn't nearly enough incentive for them to stay.

The Chargers are the most likely candidates to move, with the Rams being second on the list. This is due to current lease situations and other assorted timetables. The Jags are probably third, but if Ralph Wilson dies the Buffalo Bills vault over all of them. The 49'ers or Raiders? Nah, no chance of either of them in L.A. anytime soon - the Bay Area would string up the Yorks, and Al Davis has been there, done that.

[STL FANATIC]

Just as an FYI, sources are saying Blues owner/chairmen, and lead organizer (though not majority investor) of the bid in question, is dropping Limbaugh from his bid. Rush was never anything but a minority investor, and I suppose Checketts has decided his name does more harm than good. Checketts isn't really the type to stir up talk just for the sake of it, but his bid surely got lots of attention. For better or worse, I don't know.

That's probably irrelevant as Chip will choose the winning bid based on two factors--money and a willingness/desire to keep the team in St. Louis.

[rams80]

Just as an FYI, sources are saying Blues owner/chairmen, and lead organizer (though not majority investor) of the bid in question, is dropping Limbaugh from his bid. Rush was never anything but a minority investor, and I suppose Checketts has decided his name does more harm than good. Checketts isn't really the type to stir up talk just for the sake of it, but his bid surely got lots of attention. For better or worse, I don't know.

That's probably irrelevant as Chip will choose the winning bid based on two factors--money and a willingness/desire to keep the team in St. Louis.

I really hope the former trumps the latter. I want the Rams new ownership to be flush with cash. I know Chip doesn't want to be seen as "the villain" in this low rent tragedy, but the reality is he isn't. Georgia Frontiere, who sat around and did jack diddly to build a fanbase for more than a decade, is the reason why the team is in danger of moving.

Oh....and I note that only Eastern Missouri is scheduled to watch this week's Rams-Jags game. Yay blackout rules and mediocrity.

[The_Admiral]

It really wouldn't be fair to make more than the bare minimum of households watch the Rams.

[DustDevil61]

I'm not acting an any authority, but I'm surprised that no one mentioned this thread. It just seems a better place to take the whole Limbaugh-investing-in-the-Rams thing. But that's just me.

As for the Jaguars, do we have any attendance numbers? Where do they stand, both according to the team and according to reports?