Plagiarize Much!

[tajmccall]

I respect that some of you see this as a lesser issue than Sterling and I tend to, but its a big deal, and worth reacting to.

I dont think anyone is saying this kid or man should go to jail, but he should be taught that you cant do that. I didnt get out of my ticket for wearing headphones in my car, even though i wasnt SURE it was illegal, But i definately had a good idea.

I didnt go to jail, but i payed my fine and learned my lesson.

I think its quite possible that people could take things from this site, but 99% are good enough to ask, and 99% a yes will be returned. Its always that exteme minority of ball busters that you gotta look for.

I dont know what im really saying here, but i hope this has a happy ending. Yes Sterling, let Itech know, see what they say, im sure you know the tone to use so i wont even suggest anything. But i will say one word, Assertive.

[AndrewG70]

Pardon me for being entirely too ignorant, but where could I go to see the original? I've already seen the one on ITECH's website.

Andrew in Phoenix

[slapshot]

thanks for clarifiying that yh...that's why I'm not a lawyer.

I only listed our practice because there's only so much we can do as a company. We do have our own lawyers who attempt to flag potential copyright infringing ads, and we are constantly getting training memos about publishing protected artwork. But with the volume of ads we publish, sad to say, stuff falls through the cracks. We don't have the time or resources to check every customer's submitted artwork 100%; that's why we have them sign the waiver, hoping to clear our name in the process. So, as you say, if we do get sued, the customer has to pay our claims, and not the other way aorund.

But what happens if Itech did do all its reasearch and found nothing? Say thay customer used a logo that wasn't as well-known and obvious as Sterling's. They could not disprove the author's claims that his artwork was original? They are still liable anyway?

[STL FANATIC]

This brings up something I've always wondered. How do we protect our work. I don't mean with a watermark. I mean legally. Sterling's is obvioulsy protected as it's become a team logo. But for me, if I design an original logo...do I just have to throw a © on it, or do I have to actually file papers on it or something? I always put the © on my stuff, but I've always wondered how much I REALLY need to do.

[griffin128]

Sterling, let me first say that I've loved all your work, and let me second say that I'm a pulished cartoonist so I know how important intellectual property is, but can I ask, do you even own that image anymore or when the Moose bought it they bought the copyright as well. I know that doesn't change the fact that it may be plagiarized but it means that it's not your problem. it's the Manitoba Moose's.

[griffin128]

This brings up something I've always wondered. How do we protect our work. I don't mean with a watermark. I mean legally. Sterling's is obvioulsy protected as it's become a team logo. But for me, if I design an original logo...do I just have to throw a © on it, or do I have to actually file papers on it or something? I always put the © on my stuff, but I've always wondered how much I REALLY need to do.

Sorry for the double post.

As far as I know it's kind of illegal to put the c in a circle on something unless you actually filed the paperwork. If you can prove you did it, then you're automatically copyrighted but the circle c is a different story.

[Sterling84]

I know that doesn't change the fact that it may be plagiarized but it means that it's not your problem. it's the Manitoba Moose's.

Technically, I guess it is their problem. But , and I don't mean to wax philosophical here, it is my problem too. First, the Moose are not only my clients, but my first clients in this industry. I'm building my marketing materials around the success of that brand. Any diminishment of it, diminishes the story I'm telling potential new clients. If it begins appearing on random websites as Joe Schmoes art, next on pee wee teams, and soon on soda bottles, it loses any recognition as the Moose' property. Did most of you know copyrights are only in effect so long as the owner actively enforces them? Its true. If you don't care, we don't care, sayeth the government. You have to be ever-watchful. This may sound hypocritical given my stance on the Mighty Docs.........and it kind of is, so be it.

Second, the Moose are ongoing clients of mine, I am working on some other stuff for them and I take the client relationship very seriously, it's my job on paper to maximize their brand and to look out for pitfalls, and I make it mine to guard everywhere else as well.

Third, the guys a jag......I would've done the same for any of you if I'd recognized a similar situation. Punks gotta learn.

[Brian in Boston]

Well... this may yet turn out to be a "worthwhile" incident. I say that in as much as it seems to be serving as a "wake-up call".

As much as we may be loathe to admit it under circumstances such as these, the internet is an open forum. Truth be told, that's one of the attractions of posting logo concepts out here: they go from being anonymous drawings enjoyed by the individual who designed them, to being much-lauded (or critiqued) design concepts regarded by the "masses". What's more, in this community, the artists know that the vast majority of people in the target audience are fellow designers and/or logo enthusiasts. Let's all admit it, there's a "rush" connected to knowing that a design is in the public eye.

That said, the posting of intellectual property in a community such as the CCSL Boards carries with it a risk of the misappropriation of said property, whether intentionally or coincidentally. If it's out there on the internet (hell, if it is "out there" in any medium), it becomes impossible to know whether every single person viewing it will respect the rights of the creator.

So, what are the options for the CCSL Board artists? Well, you can take the radical root and simply refuse to post on these boards or any others like them. Or, you can choose to continue posting your images out here while taking steps to dissuade potential "thieves" from misappropriating your work. These steps can range from going to the trouble and expense of actually seeking trademark potection for every design before you post it... to simply slapping a trademark or copyright symbol on the design(s) to give thieves pause over the impression that it is protected (though it won't legally protect you)... to certified mailing yourself a copy of the design prior to posting so that you've got some sort of proof of when you completed the design.

Still, with any of these approaches we've got to recognize that the potential still exists for someone to misappropriate the logo(s). Then, no matter what route we took, we have to recognize that there is still going to be work involved in protecting the intellectual property. Which brings me to my final point.

I recognize that you feel wronged sterling... as would I. You can do whatever you like to attempt to assist in bringing to justice the individual that you feel has misappropriated your work. However, the reality is that this is truly the Manitoba Moose's battle now. Unless I'm mistaken, the logo you designed is now the Moose's property. I'd alert them to the situation and let them put the pressure on I-Tech and the individual responsible for submitting the mask design. However, you may find out that the Moose don't feel it warrants their attention (though I don't know why not)... in which case you'll be back - at least emotionally - to square one. Still, the Moose as a business entity have the resources - indeed, given that the logo is now their property, the responsibility - to pursue any claim of trademark infringement. As much as you want to help them protect and grow their new brand (which is very noble and to be commended), it's ultimately their responsibility now.

Bottom line: when you're an artist, no matter what route you take to displaying your creative wares or where you display them, there is always the risk that you will have to battle to protect them some day. Or, hope that the client you invested "blood, sweat and tears" for will battle to protect them.

Brian in Boston

[hrivnak]

On a totally different note, the winner of this months contest actually plays for my street hockey team. I had no idea he won or entered till I checked this post. Interesting...

[Sterling84]

David,

Thank you very much for bringing this issue to our attention. We will pull the mask off the site immediately and we regret the error - we actually checked with the kid first and he told us it was original when we questioned its resemblance to the traditional Moose logo. I wasn't aware of the alternate logo until you sent us the attachment.

Best regards,

Eric Marquis

ITECH

Pretty much resolved then I should think. Thanks ITech.

[Waffles]

David,

Thank you very much for bringing this issue to our attention. We will pull the mask off the site immediately and we regret the error - we actually checked with the kid first and he told us it was original when we questioned its resemblance to the traditional Moose logo. I wasn't aware of the alternate logo until you sent us the attachment.

Best regards,

Eric Marquis

ITECH

Pretty much resolved then I should think. Thanks ITech.

Good to hear, although it's too bad the guy still "won" something for the design.

[misterhabs]

Two things

1) the mask is still up there as of 7:40 pm EST.

2) Sterling you so out class me in the logo department. All I do is slap some pre-exisiting logos on football helmets. That said, when I'm surfing around and find some website has appropriated my "work" and is using it without my permission I"m infuriated. I've found my helmets on fantasy pages, football sim pages, fansites, even unofficial league sites. I can feel your pain.

Now I know that I was ragged on quite a bit because the layout of my page mirrored another similar site, so I can identify with Brian in Boston's take as well. But I've tried to give credit where credit is due, and I never misrepresented my work or tried to earn anything out of it.

I guess I just convinced myself to go out and drop some coin on Dreamweaver and start blazing my own internet trail. . .

Sterling, in the immortal words of Randy Jackson, "Yo, I feel you dog."

Ben

[Steve-O]

Sterling, If it is any consolation, you are cute and have a nice bum...

[Joshawaggie]

Sterling, If it is any consolation, you are cute and have a nice bum...

uhhhh what?

[stimpy]

IMO it isnt the same logo but he got the idea from it and is close...he is from manitoba...dont worry my entrres are conpletely origional

[winters in buffalo]

Sterling, If it is any consolation, you are cute and have a nice bum...

Ah ha! I KNEW something like this was going to happen... so I had a beer in advance.

Seriously though, it's good to see Sterling got a response and .....HOLY CRAP, THE SHARKS ARE ON A ROLL... and that Itech is addressing the issue on thier end. I'd still follow up to make sure they take it down.

[dwertman]

Its still there as of the time im posting this.

And on a similar but unrelated side note,if always been a fan of the Loonie mask from the WJHC's,which I found in there gallery

[Stampman]

BTW Mister Habs--I too keep seeing your work, and Charles Arey's as well, on many sites--But for all I know they asked you or Charles for permission, and it was granted...

I have borrowed stuff from both sites for personal use--but not anything that is shared or entered in a contest--it's one reason I am hesitant to post my Madden art for others to download--even with the exisitng CFL teams someone else did the logo work, and I copied it-and so most of my posted screen shots don't have clear logos on them--exceptions being Sterling's great Caribou logo--or the fantasy concepts from people here that I did in Madden for them... every different--

I would hope we would help each other out in these uses--When I came across a familiar logo for download for use in Madden I notified the designer who posts here via PM...the guy who offered it for download wasn't charging, and admitted he borrowed most of his logos--but there was no credit, and it just seemed cheap--but he did remove the logo, and another by the same designer that I missed...

So here's hoping they correct the situation soon!

[Brian in Boston]

Nice to see that I-Tech responded to you, sterling. Here's hoping that nobody else has to go through this (though, given human nature, I'm sure some of us will).

Brian in Boston

[IronChefShark]

Sterling, If it is any consolation, you are cute and have a nice bum...

dude, thats creepy

makes me feel uneasy