Urban Meyer to coach Buckeyes?

[tBBP]

Ain't this thread supposed to be about Urban Meyer supposedly coaching the Buckeyes? I suppose y'all might wanna get back on tra--ah hell, who am I kidding here?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'm not sure how the paid athletes thing came about, but it is an interesting discussion worthy of its own topic. Is there a way to save all of the related conversations here and move to a new topic?

Pretty please?

[pmoehrin]

I just like how the colleges treat these guys the same as any pro team would treat their players. Only difference is the players go to classes. That is right up until the point where they would be able to any type of financial gain for themselves, or cease to be useful on the field either due to injury or somebody beating them out for their job. Then all of a sudden they're students participating in a recreational activity of their own accord. Your not an employee of the school but if you ever stop playing football or basketball you'll lose your scholarship and probably be forced to leave. But your also here as a student first and an athlete second.

As for Urban Meyer goes last report was that he and Ohio State were still in talks, and I do think he will accept the job once they offer it to him. I just think they're waiting for the current season to end before announcing a coaching change.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

When I was in grad school, I had a part-time, on-campus job that paid about $25/hour. Pro-rated to full-time over an entire year, that's about $50,000 (I didn't work full time or for a year). If I can get that much for academic research, I'm pretty sure the guys actually producing big dollars deserve at least the same for their time.

[infrared41]

I'm not sure how the paid athletes thing came about, but it is an interesting discussion worthy of its own topic. Is there a way to save all of the related conversations here and move to a new topic?

Pretty please?

Not that I'm aware of. But the OP can edit the thread title to include the current discussion. Hell, as long as no one is seriously complaining, we should be OK going off on a reasonable and relevant tangent.

Also, 25 bucks and hour?!?! My job with the college paid minimum wage. I should have transferred to wherever you were going to school.

[HedleyLamarr]

Why bother having college athletics if you're going to pay them and no longer expect them to be students?

Might as well just create some sort of junior league like Canadian hockey has and no longer associate football with colleges.

[pmoehrin]

Why bother having college athletics if you're going to pay them and no longer expect them to be students?

Might as well just create some sort of junior league like Canadian hockey has and no longer associate football with colleges.

Minus the pay part I think that's pretty much what you have now.

You can't tell me the vast majority of these guys are students. They're athletes that go to classes. But they're not serious about their studies, nor are they really in a situation where they can be I think. Most didn't get the proper education in grade school to properly prepare them for college and in order to overcome that they would have to devote a serious amount of time to their studies which would in turn take away from their athletic commitments and they would lose their schlorship.

I know two players myself who decided to get serious about their studies and it in turned cost them their spot on the team. You have to make a choice. You can't do both.

[HedleyLamarr]

The mindset of "most football/basketball players aren't going to class or learning anything" is grossly exaggerated.

I had a fall semester class with David Greene, a 4-year starting QB at Georgia. Aside from Friday classes that preceded a road game, he was there for every class and was there for every test/exam. Surely that's not the exception....

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I'm not sure how the paid athletes thing came about, but it is an interesting discussion worthy of its own topic. Is there a way to save all of the related conversations here and move to a new topic?

Pretty please?

Not that I'm aware of. But the OP can edit the thread title to include the current discussion. Hell, as long as no one is seriously complaining, we should be OK going off on a reasonable and relevant tangent.

Also, 25 bucks and hour?!?! My job with the college paid minimum wage. I should have transferred to wherever you were going to school.

There might be lots of reasons my state is facing never-ending budget crises....

To tag along to what others have said, I think that having the "student-athlete" designation allows people to pretend that college athletics are somehow more "pure" than the pros, or that they're just kids out there havin' fun. As we've come to learn, college sports are actually far more scandalous and, dare I say, incestuous. Putting an end to the financial restrictions on players will legitimately professionalize an already professional industry.

The mindset of "most football/basketball players aren't going to class or learning anything" is grossly exaggerated.

I had a fall semester class with David Greene, a 4-year starting QB at Georgia. Aside from Friday classes that preceded a road game, he was there for every class and was there for every test/exam. Surely that's not the exception....

I'm sure that there are also a lot of David Greenes, Robert Smiths, Emeka Okafors and Steve Youngs that we don't hear about. But I it might also be naive to think that football and basketball players have the capacity, on average, to take on the typical (or even advanced) college workload. Two-a-days, travel, and media appearances are a heck of a time commitment; I can't see how every one of the 100 players on a football team can do all of that and have something resembling a normal class schedule. Some players are truly exceptional; but given that most college kids are dolts these days, I think it's safe to assume most athletes are too.

[pmoehrin]

The mindset of "most football/basketball players aren't going to class or learning anything" is grossly exaggerated.

I had a fall semester class with David Greene, a 4-year starting QB at Georgia. Aside from Friday classes that preceded a road game, he was there for every class and was there for every test/exam. Surely that's not the exception....

There's certainly guys out there that would be able to handle college life if they couldn't play ball. I could name examples as well from my experiences.

The problem is the vast majority cannot and those that cannot aren't in a situation where they can sacrifice their time spent doing athletics in order to be able to take classes that challenge you more then basketweaving or ballroom dancing. And if the goal of sports is to help facilitate education (which is says right in the NCAA mission statement) the excuse of well that's your own fault simply isn't good enough.

[dfwabel]

Why bother having college athletics if you're going to pay them and no longer expect them to be students?

Might as well just create some sort of junior league like Canadian hockey has and no longer associate football with colleges.

Probably because the great misnomer of the 50 years of collegiate athletics is that those who play basketball and football are "amateurs", just based on their age. It is a business within most schools to the point that their athletic departments are classified as Auxiliaries just to avoid the IRS in the first place.

They are the labor and product yet see little results from it. With the NBA "One and Done" rule, the incoming Freshman only has to be eligible for his first semester in school. As a result, he can stay eligible for the tournament, then when it hits April 5, they leave campus to prepare for NBA draft workouts.

Currently, the athletic scholarship is not taxable, however a stipend will cause 50% of the athletes not to file taxes.

Infrared, my graduate assistantship (1998-2000), paid me about $1000/month after taxes.

[infrared41]

Why bother having college athletics if you're going to pay them and no longer expect them to be students?

Might as well just create some sort of junior league like Canadian hockey has and no longer associate football with colleges.

Minus the pay part I think that's pretty much what you have now.

You can't tell me the vast majority of these guys are students. They're athletes that go to classes. But they're not serious about their studies, nor are they really in a situation where they can be I think. Most didn't get the proper education in grade school to properly prepare them for college and in order to overcome that they would have to devote a serious amount of time to their studies which would in turn take away from their athletic commitments and they would lose their schlorship.

I know two players myself who decided to get serious about their studies and it in turned cost them their spot on the team. You have to make a choice. You can't do both.

Really? Then how do you explain schools like "The U" and their 81% graduation rate for football players? Or Notre Dame's 96%? Or Stanford's 86%? I could go on but I think you get the point. To say that "the vast majority of these guys are athletes that go to classes" is flat out wrong. Even the lowest FBS graduation rates are still in the high 40s - low 50s. Not great, but still not enough to conclude that the "vast majority" of college athletes are uneducated morons who do nothing more than "go to classes."

The second bolded statement is just dumb. No offense.

[infrared41]

Infrared, my graduate assistantship (1998-2000), paid me about $1000/month after taxes.

Yeah, when I was a TA I got about the same. My first college job was at The University of Toledo staring at a computer screen in the Physical Plant. We did things like turn on the AC at Savage Hall and other campus buildings and call the fire dept. when there was a fire alarm. Not exactly "hard work." Basically I got paid to study.

[pmoehrin]

Really? Then how do you explain schools like "The U" and their 81% graduation rate for football players? Or Notre Dame's 96%? Or Stanford's 86%? I could go on but I think you get the point. To say that "the vast majority of these guys are athletes that go to classes" is flat out wrong. Even the lowest FBS graduation rates are still in the high 40s - low 50s. Not great, but still not enough to conclude that the "vast majority" of college athletes are uneducated morons who do nothing more than "go to classes."

The second bolded statement is just dumb. No offense.

I get what your trying to say, but I know the amount of time I spent doing college work as well as my friends and I know the amount of time these guys spend practicing. There's just not enough time in the day for most guys to take up a serious major with their education background and do sports at the same time. Its just not possible. Something has to give and it has to be the education, because if they lose the athletic part, they're gone. So they take joke classes that just showing up for will get you a C and that's pretty much all they ever take.

[HedleyLamarr]

I'm sure that there are also a lot of David Greenes, Robert Smiths, Emeka Okafors and Steve Youngs that we don't hear about. But I it might also be naive to think that football and basketball players have the capacity, on average, to take on the typical (or even advanced) college workload. Two-a-days, travel, and media appearances are a heck of a time commitment; I can't see how every one of the 100 players on a football team can do all of that and have something resembling a normal class schedule. Some players are truly exceptional; but given that most college kids are dolts these days, I think it's safe to assume most athletes are too.

The beautiful part about being on an athletic scholarship is two-fold:

1. Your class schedule is generally at minimum levels during the quarter/semester in which your sport's season is in, and loaded during the quarters/semesters when your sport is in offseason. It's ultimately up to the student-athlete if they want to put in more credit hours, but they usually aren't doing much more than the minimum required.

2. Those that are on athletic scholarships often get first crack at entering classes before the rest of the student body can access them. This way, they can get into the classes that fit in the sports team's game/practice schedule.

[pmoehrin]

I'm sure that there are also a lot of David Greenes, Robert Smiths, Emeka Okafors and Steve Youngs that we don't hear about. But I it might also be naive to think that football and basketball players have the capacity, on average, to take on the typical (or even advanced) college workload. Two-a-days, travel, and media appearances are a heck of a time commitment; I can't see how every one of the 100 players on a football team can do all of that and have something resembling a normal class schedule. Some players are truly exceptional; but given that most college kids are dolts these days, I think it's safe to assume most athletes are too.

The beautiful part about being on an athletic scholarship is two-fold:

1. Your class schedule is generally at minimum levels during the quarter/semester in which your sport's season is in, and loaded during the quarters/semesters when your sport is in offseason. It's ultimately up to the student-athlete if they want to put in more credit hours, but they usually aren't doing much more than the minimum required.

2. Those that are on athletic scholarships often get first crack at entering classes before the rest of the student body can access them. This way, they can get into the classes that fit in the sports team's game/practice schedule.

The only thing I disagree with is the notion that there's actually an offseason for either football or basketball. Your offseason is the two months after the season ends. After that its right back to the grind. You can't practice as many hours in the offseaon as you would be able to in the regular season, but that's what those "volunteer workouts" are for.

Your putting in just as many hours a week in the "offseason" as you are during the season. Only difference is the coaches aren't around as much for practice/workouts.

[infrared41]

Really? Then how do you explain schools like "The U" and their 81% graduation rate for football players? Or Notre Dame's 96%? Or Stanford's 86%? I could go on but I think you get the point. To say that "the vast majority of these guys are athletes that go to classes" is flat out wrong. Even the lowest FBS graduation rates are still in the high 40s - low 50s. Not great, but still not enough to conclude that the "vast majority" of college athletes are uneducated morons who do nothing more than "go to classes."

The second bolded statement is just dumb. No offense.

I get what your trying to say, but I know the amount of time I spent doing college work as well as my friends and I know the amount of time these guys spend practicing. There's just not enough time in the day for most guys to take up a serious major with their education background and do sports at the same time. Its just not possible. Something has to give and it has to be the education, because if they lose the athletic part, they're gone. So they take joke classes that just showing up for will get you a C and that's pretty much all they ever take.

I'm not "trying" to say anything. The graduation rates are fact. Period.

I know for a fact that at Ohio State there is literally no way to take "joke classes" and still manage to graduate. (Trust me, I tried it. ) If it's like that at a football factory like OSU then I have to think it's like that at most other schools.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Given that Penn State successfully covered up child rape for more than a decade, I don't think we can dismiss the possibility that D-1 players grades and classes might not be 100% legitimate. There's a lot of pressure to keep kids eligible to play, and while I don't have proof, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that sterling graduation rates are a product of a system rather than players being exceptional human specimens who excel at both sports and school.

Again, most college students are dumb as rocks. I have a tough time accepting that guys with crazy amounts of pressure and ridiculous time commitments somehow have it all figured out when so many students struggle just to complete their boring liberal arts degrees.

[Island_Style]

Jeff Lagemen use to play for the Jags and now he is a broadcaster for them. He said that Coughlin made every defensive player write an essay on the opposing team's offense. He said he had to write an essay for someone cause the guy couldn't read. He played four years in college. Hell, I personally know one of UGA's recruits. He is that kid that committed early. I wont say his name but you know who. That kid is dumb as dirt. He has no business being there if he didn't play football. It's everywhere.

[infrared41]

Given that Penn State successfully covered up child rape for more than a decade, I don't think we can dismiss the possibility that D-1 players grades and classes might not be 100% legitimate. There's a lot of pressure to keep kids eligible to play, and while I don't have proof, I wouldn't at all be surprised to find out that sterling graduation rates are a product of a system rather than players being exceptional human specimens who excel at both sports and school.

Again, most college students are dumb as rocks. I have a tough time accepting that guys with crazy amounts of pressure and ridiculous time commitments somehow have it all figured out when so many students struggle just to complete their boring liberal arts degrees.

No argument there. But I also think it's unfair to assume that every "jock" is some illiterate idiot.