Urban Meyer to coach Buckeyes?

[infrared41]

The only thing we checked on was to see if guys were going to class. That was a big deal.

Beyond that though, we didn't care much. As long as you got the grades to be eligable you were good. Didn't matter how you got them, just so long as you got them. The vast majority I'd say were earned without the need for "extra credit"

You need to pick a side my man. According to you, athletes don't have the time, upbringing, intelligence, or interest for academics. Now you turn around and say that the vast majority of their grades were legitimate? Call me crazy, but your statement seems to be in direct contrast with the argument you were making earlier.

[infrared41]

A. That's not at all the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job of presenting my argument. All I was saying is that it's a little unfair to paint all players with the very broad brush pmo..whatever his name is was painting them with. I'll be the first to admit that the true "student-athlete" is hardly the rule. But we also need to stop acting like finding a leprechaun is easier than finding a college football player who actually earned a degree.

I'm not even saying they're dumb either.

I'm saying what are the type of degrees they are earning and are they actually taking challenging classes. My experience was no most were not because they didn't have the education background to enable them to, and couldn't put in the amount of time to study for those classes because of their sports commitments.

There's certain major out there like engineering that can be taken up by 10% of a school, but you'll be lucky to find more then one or two guys on a team taking it out of a 75 man roster. Sometimes you won't even find any. And its because those majors are hard and you need time to do the work, and there's very few guys are capable of doing the work and having the education background to prepare them for it.

Right, because engineering is such an easy major for non-athletes? The percentage of engineering majors on the -ing debate team probably isn't very high. Why not bash these guys for not going to Law School or being pre-med while they're playing?

So are you saying my degree is worthless because my major wasn't hard enough? You're making no sense at all.

[tyst13]

A. That's not at all the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job of presenting my argument. All I was saying is that it's a little unfair to paint all players with the very broad brush pmo..whatever his name is was painting them with. I'll be the first to admit that the true "student-athlete" is hardly the rule. But we also need to stop acting like finding a leprechaun is easier than finding a college football player who actually earned a degree.

I'm not even saying they're dumb either.

I'm saying what are the type of degrees they are earning and are they actually taking challenging classes. My experience was no most were not because they didn't have the education background to enable them to, and couldn't put in the amount of time to study for those classes because of their sports commitments.

There's certain major out there like engineering that can be taken up by 10% of a school, but you'll be lucky to find more then one or two guys on a team taking it out of a 75 man roster. Sometimes you won't even find any. And its because those majors are hard and you need time to do the work, and there's very few guys are capable of doing the work and having the education background to prepare them for it.

Right, because engineering is such an easy major for non-athletes? The percentage of engineering majors on the -ing debate team probably isn't very high. Why not bash these guys for not going to Law School or being pre-med while they're playing?

So are you saying my degree is worthless because my major wasn't hard enough? You're making no sense at all.

I don't think he's saying engineering is an easy major at all, just that more non-athletes are in it then athletes because it is so challenging. In fact, his exact words were "And its because those majors are hard and you need time to do the work," and as a current engineering major in my third year, that's absolutely true. Engineering takes so much time and effort I could hardly imagine anyone balancing it with sports. So no, he is not calling your degree worthless, unless there's something in his words I'm missing that is obvious to you.

[infrared41]

A. That's not at all the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job of presenting my argument. All I was saying is that it's a little unfair to paint all players with the very broad brush pmo..whatever his name is was painting them with. I'll be the first to admit that the true "student-athlete" is hardly the rule. But we also need to stop acting like finding a leprechaun is easier than finding a college football player who actually earned a degree.

I'm not even saying they're dumb either.

I'm saying what are the type of degrees they are earning and are they actually taking challenging classes. My experience was no most were not because they didn't have the education background to enable them to, and couldn't put in the amount of time to study for those classes because of their sports commitments.

There's certain major out there like engineering that can be taken up by 10% of a school, but you'll be lucky to find more then one or two guys on a team taking it out of a 75 man roster. Sometimes you won't even find any. And its because those majors are hard and you need time to do the work, and there's very few guys are capable of doing the work and having the education background to prepare them for it.

Right, because engineering is such an easy major for non-athletes? The percentage of engineering majors on the -ing debate team probably isn't very high. Why not bash these guys for not going to Law School or being pre-med while they're playing?

So are you saying my degree is worthless because my major wasn't hard enough? You're making no sense at all.

I don't think he's saying engineering is an easy major at all, just that more non-athletes are in it then athletes because it is so challenging. In fact, his exact words were "And its because those majors are hard and you need time to do the work," and as a current engineering major in my third year, that's absolutely true. Engineering takes so much time and effort I could hardly imagine anyone balancing it with sports. So no, he is not calling your degree worthless, unless there's something in his words I'm missing that is obvious to you.

If you go back and read the entire debate, my reply will make much more sense to you.

[The_Admiral]

Division I revenue-generating with an engineering major is some serious burning the candle at both ends and I see no reason why there should be many. Or any. Time is finite.

[BBTV]

Division I revenue-generating with an engineering major is some serious burning the candle at both ends and I see no reason why there should be many. Or any. Time is finite.

http://www.engr.utk.edu/diversity/darwin_walker.html

Not sure if civil engineering counts, but I remember announcers annoyingly mentioning Darwin Walker's engineering background every time he made a play... which meant they only mentioned it once or twice per season.

[ESTONES6]

Division I revenue-generating with an engineering major is some serious burning the candle at both ends and I see no reason why there should be many. Or any. Time is finite.

Wrong. Time in infinite.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who has a 4-year engineering degree... there are semesters where you hardly have time to make yourself dinner at night. At the same time, there are semesters where you still have to study, but you do have 6-8 hours of free time, nightly (assuming 8 hours of sleep, which is a stretch for a college student). I think that a college student could come out with more demanding degrees if they cared to put the effort in. Athletes get first shot at signing up for classes - and a lot of schools have separate schedules developed for student athletes depending on the semester. A student athlete could easily schedule the minimum, or 1 class more than the minimum, take a class during the summer, and still graduate on time, under scholarship. I'm not saying it would be easy, but i think it could be done.

[ESTONES6]

Anyway, the reported deal is for 7 years, $40 million. The report is starting to surface around some credible websites. It originated at Scout.com but has now reached The Orlando Sentinel, Fox Sports, etc. Official announcement will be some time after the Michigan game.

[BBTV]

If a man making > 5M / year sat me down and told me I couldn't sell something so that I could make a few bucks, I'd kick him in his nuts.

College players need to find a way to organize.

[McCall]

Who cares what their major is? Whether it be difficult or easy, as long as they are meeting the required academic standards then it's fine. I have no problem with an athlete who's there solely to play, taking a cupcake major. As long as his GPA meet the NCAA elgibility standards, then he's fulfilling his academic duties.

And no, they should not "organize". He was HIRED to COACH these guys. If you cannot see the difference between student and teacher/coach, then you might need to go back to school. I'm sick of people thinking that kids are on the same level as adults. College is where you go to transition from kid to adult. Seriously, if you want unions at the collegiate level, we're never gonna have any sports to watch in the fall and winter.

[OnWis97]

So are you saying my degree is worthless because my major wasn't hard enough? You're making no sense at all.

My undergrad degree is in Political Science...I knew a lot of engineering majors. If he's an engineering major, that is most likely what he's saying.

Anyway...I'm not naive enough to think that no cheating goes on to keep guys eligible, but I'd like to think that those who graduate do so legitimately; they don't have get them to graduation to keep them eligible.

I've attended two B1G schools and work at a third...I've heard some stories. We all have anecdotes. I also had some undergrad classes with football players that clearly belonged. Of course, the one I am thinking of is an upper-level Poli Sci class, so that does not really count.

[BBTV]

Who cares what their major is? Whether it be difficult or easy, as long as they are meeting the required academic standards then it's fine. I have no problem with an athlete who's there solely to play, taking a cupcake major. As long as his GPA meet the NCAA elgibility standards, then he's fulfilling his academic duties.

And no, they should not "organize". He was HIRED to COACH these guys. If you cannot see the difference between student and teacher/coach, then you might need to go back to school. I'm sick of people thinking that kids are on the same level as adults. College is where you go to transition from kid to adult. Seriously, if you want unions at the collegiate level, we're never gonna have any sports to watch in the fall and winter.

I just don't want a system where these kids are looked at as thugs and bad people for taking some cash on the side or selling their memorabilia so they can have a few dollars when their "teacher" makes millions off of their sweat. If you can't see the difference between an accounting teacher and a $5M/year coach, then maybe you might need to go back to school. Quit comparing these kids to yourself and their coaches to your teachers. Its apples and oranges.

Oh, but you want sports to watch in the fall and winter. So the schools can make millions, the "teacher" (lol) can make millions, you can sit your fat ass down on a couch and derive enjoyment from their work, but they're a-holes if they take 20 grand from a booster. Makes no sense.

[The_Admiral]

McCall: do you believe minor league baseball players should also have to demonstrate proficiency in, say, baking while developing their craft? Most of them don't make it to the pros either, and had better have a fallback.

[Jigga]

Who cares what their major is? Whether it be difficult or easy, as long as they are meeting the required academic standards then it's fine. I have no problem with an athlete who's there solely to play, taking a cupcake major. As long as his GPA meet the NCAA elgibility standards, then he's fulfilling his academic duties.

And no, they should not "organize". He was HIRED to COACH these guys. If you cannot see the difference between student and teacher/coach, then you might need to go back to school. I'm sick of people thinking that kids are on the same level as adults. College is where you go to transition from kid to adult. Seriously, if you want unions at the collegiate level, we're never gonna have any sports to watch in the fall and winter.

I just don't want a system where these kids are looked at as thugs and bad people for taking some cash on the side or selling their memorabilia so they can have a few dollars when their "teacher" makes millions off of their sweat. If you can't see the difference between an accounting teacher and a $5M/year clach, then maybe you might need to go back to school. Quit comparing these kids to yourself and their coaches to your teachers. Its apples and oranges.

Oh, but you want sports to watch in the fall and winter. So the schools can make millions, the "teacher" (lol) can make millions, you can sit your fat ass down on a couch and derive enjoyment from their work, but they're a-holes if they take 20 grand from a booster. Makes no sense.

I love it when I agree with something you post. You have the ability to say something completely cogent and well-reasoned in a most palpably acerbic and curmudgeonly way. I can't pull that off.

--------------

I might be crazy, but I think the fix is not to pay the "kids" from the school/athletic dept. coffers, but to decriminalize the hand outs. If someone is stupid enough to give the Terrelle Pryors of the world cars and tattoos, let the Reggie Bush's mamas live in a McMansion or let the Rhett Bomars clock some hours without actually working, why should we give a damn? Seriously?

[infrared41]

Division I revenue-generating with an engineering major is some serious burning the candle at both ends and I see no reason why there should be many. Or any. Time is finite.

Wrong. Time in infinite.

Not when you have a limited amount of it, which I'm pretty sure was his point.

[The_Admiral]

I might be crazy, but I think the fix is not to pay the "kids" from the school/athletic dept. coffers, but to decriminalize the hand outs. If someone is stupid enough to give the Terrelle Pryors of the world cars and tattoos, let the Reggie Bush's mamas live in a McMansion or let the Rhett Bomars clock some hours without actually working, why should we give a damn? Seriously?

Something about lavishing young athletic men with money and luxury goods is inherently creepy. When can we finally find out that boosters are kid-touchers?

[WSU151]

Who cares what their major is? Whether it be difficult or easy, as long as they are meeting the required academic standards then it's fine. I have no problem with an athlete who's there solely to play, taking a cupcake major. As long as his GPA meet the NCAA elgibility standards, then he's fulfilling his academic duties.

And no, they should not "organize". He was HIRED to COACH these guys. If you cannot see the difference between student and teacher/coach, then you might need to go back to school. I'm sick of people thinking that kids are on the same level as adults. College is where you go to transition from kid to adult. Seriously, if you want unions at the collegiate level, we're never gonna have any sports to watch in the fall and winter.

I just don't want a system where these kids are looked at as thugs and bad people for taking some cash on the side or selling their memorabilia so they can have a few dollars when their "teacher" makes millions off of their sweat. If you can't see the difference between an accounting teacher and a $5M/year clach, then maybe you might need to go back to school. Quit comparing these kids to yourself and their coaches to your teachers. Its apples and oranges.

Oh, but you want sports to watch in the fall and winter. So the schools can make millions, the "teacher" (lol) can make millions, you can sit your fat ass down on a couch and derive enjoyment from their work, but they're a-holes if they take 20 grand from a booster. Makes no sense.

I love it when I agree with something you post. You have the ability to say something completely cogent and well-reasoned in a most palpably acerbic and curmudgeonly way. I can't pull that off.

--------------

I might be crazy, but I think the fix is not to pay the "kids" from the school/athletic dept. coffers, but to decriminalize the hand outs. If someone is stupid enough to give the Terrelle Pryors of the world cars and tattoos, let the Reggie Bush's mamas live in a McMansion or let the Rhett Bomars clock some hours without actually working, why should we give a damn? Seriously?

Where do you draw the line, then, between what's acceptable and what's not acceptable? If you look the other way a few times, then the whole thing is a joke (not that it isn't a joke already, but in theory the NCAA has integrity).

--------------

And not to hijack this Urban/Ohio State thread, but paying NCAA kids is the hardest notion. What do you pay the swimmers and rowers? What do you pay the baseball and softball players? What do you pay the football/basketball players? What do you pay the third-string reserves? What's the minimum number of athletes that can be on the payroll? Are all student-athletes thought of as equal, and should they be?

[infrared41]

What do you pay the swimmers and rowers? What do you pay the baseball and softball players? What do you pay the football/basketball players? What do you pay the third-string reserves? What's the minimum number of athletes that can be on the payroll? Are all student-athletes thought of as equal, and should they be?

If they're going to be paid, their pay should be based on the revenue they generate. So swimmers and rowers, well, you get the idea.

[BBTV]

I hate to keep going back to this, but it really makes the most sense IMO (beneficial to the workers, not necessarily to the consumers - selfish me for thinking about the labor and not my own desire to be entertained):

TV deals are done by conference, right? It shouldn't be too hard to figure out a conference's TV deal and "football related revenue". Players in a conference would essentially be in unions that get them X% of said revenue. How to distribute it? I don't know - evenly among all players I guess. Maybe have a Freshman rate, Sophomore rate, Junior rate, and Senior rate, to encourage borderline draftable kids to stick around. So your average SEC kid is going to make more than your average MAC kid. Oh well. That's life in any industry - you're worth what you produce.

I'm not sure what the laws are regarding organized labor, but there'd have to be some kind of protection for strikes and lockouts, because the power is so much in favor of the institutions here, because even a one-year lockout can cripple a kid's college career. Likewise, a union leader could selfishly convince the gullible kids to strike, essentially hurting themselves.

For the other sports? Figure it out the same way. If a swimmer doesn't get paid anything, oh well - allow that swimmer to enter professional competitions while maintaining amateur status. If you don't generate revenue, you don't get paid. What better lesson is there to teach at a college?

[ESTONES6]

What do you pay the swimmers and rowers? What do you pay the baseball and softball players? What do you pay the football/basketball players? What do you pay the third-string reserves? What's the minimum number of athletes that can be on the payroll? Are all student-athletes thought of as equal, and should they be?

If they're going to be paid, their pay should be based on the revenue they generate. So swimmers and rowers, well, you get the idea.

You can almost justify the salvaging of their "amateur" status by saying that if EVERYONE on the football team makes $10/hour as apposed to a wage system where the QB and RB make $15/hour, the offensive line makes $10/hour, and special teamers make on $5/hour - similar to how professionals are paid.