2011-12 NHL Season

[The_Admiral]

Gretzky took a bath on the Coyotes. Maybe he's bitter.

What did the CBC say that was so out of line? Blueland Believer's quoted comments do not count; those are innocuous. Did they really run down Atlanta fans?

[Don]

Let me just say, I heard what TFoA and Blueland heard, and what really jumped out at me was when the Jets fans were sing songing "Carey" and the CBC announcers went out of their way to say "You know theres alot of savvy fans here in Winnipeg, chanting Prices first name, and that would never happen in Atlanta, cause they probably dont even know his first name!" That to me seemed out of bounds (and I really have no opinion one way or another of Atlanta). The rest about them being savvy hockey fans and whatnot thats fine to say, but to go out of their way to trash their teams former city seemed, at the very least to me, unprofessional.

[The_Admiral]

Actually, singsonging the goalie's name is like the one thing that southern hockey fans do do. I've heard it at Hurricanes games, and they're the post-the-rules-to-hockey-above-the-urinals team.

[IceCap]

Let me just say, I heard what TFoA and Blueland heard, and what really jumped out at me was when the Jets fans were sing songing "Carey" and the CBC announcers went out of their way to say "You know theres alot of savvy fans here in Winnipeg, chanting Prices first name, and that would never happen in Atlanta, cause they probably dont even know his first name!" That to me seemed out of bounds (and I really have no opinion one way or another of Atlanta). The rest about them being savvy hockey fans and whatnot thats fine to say, but to go out of their way to trash their teams former city seemed, at the very least to me, unprofessional.

Again, it's not that out there to, essentially, state that "there are mite knowledgeable hockey fans in Winnipeg then Atlanta." The attendance numbers and tv ratings seemed to indicate that Atlanta did not have a substantial, knowledgeable NHL fanbase. Nothing that was said wasn't objectively true, and if any pot shots were taken, well deserving Canadian markets have been jerked around in favour of "potential" southern markets for a while now. For the first time in a long time we're on the winning end of a NHL relocation fiasco.

At the end of the day a Canadian broadcast company was excited about NHL hockey returning to a Canadian city. The outrage!

[IceCap]

EDIT- dp

[twi]

When the teams only moves have been adding the "talent" I posted above I can't see what makes them smarter quite yet. Shut up about that.

Their objective now is to field a low-payroll team while demand is at its most inelastic, fortifying the teams' finances for down the road and setting the stage for building from within, something they couldn't do with Morin and this year's second going to Chicago. That's smart. Leaving flunkies like Waddell, Dudley, and Ramsay in Atlanta: also smart. Sounds like someone's speaking on behalf of the NASCAR Division.

CBC= Classless Bashing Canadians. I don't appreciate being insulted.

You probably weren't and just imagined it.

[HedleyLamarr]

We could play a great game of spot the fakes at tonight's game!

The guy that wears #4 for the Jets is a phony of a hockey player.

I would first like to say, again, that it sucks how you lost your team. You, myself, and everyone not named Gary Bettman knows it should have been the Coyotes moving (back) to Winnipeg, not the Thrashers.

Ok. Now with that out of the way, it's in no way "elitist" or "revisionist" to claim that your average sports fan in Winnipeg is more knowledgeable/passionate about hockey then your average sports fan in Atlanta. Sorry, that's just how it is. If the Thrashers had more fans like you and Blueland over there then the team might still be in Atlanta. Thing is they didn't, and they aren't.

If anything here counts as "revisionist" it's the notion that the Atlanta Spirit group's bumbling is the only reason the Thrashers left. Fact is the Thrashers had problems drawing fans and tv ratings, as well as problems finding a stable niche in the Atlanta sports scene. Yeah, the Atlanta Spirit were terrible NHL owners, but lets not sit here and pretend that their bumbling drove away a dedicated, loyal fanbase. That fanbase, outside of a few diehards, didn't exist. Which is, at least partly, why they're playing north of the 49th right now.

In 2007, there were plenty of sellouts, and the team averaged well over 16,000 fans per game. The team was also making money back when Ted Turner owned the team. For a city that grew in population between 2007 and now, it's not like hockey fans just disappeared from Atlanta.

With an economic system meant to help the team and a proven history of having fans come out when the team is competitive, it's almost 100% the ownership's fault. Plus, as a guy that is "on the inside", I'll simply state that when it comes to the Thrashers/Atlanta Spirit situation, I'll just simply point out that you are out of your realm on this issue. Let's just say that I had a pretty damn good reason to stick around and watch the ice get taken out after the last game.

But yeah, it was an obvious cheap-shot by Craig Simpson (whomever is Jim Hughson's regular broadcasting partner on CBC) to say that the hockey fans in Atlanta wouldn't have known Carey Price's first name...and then chuckle at his own comment afterwards.

I didn't mind so much the digs about Winnipeg being more passionate about hockey than Atlanta, but to say it multiple times was unnecessary.

[Don]

I know youre just going to stick up for them no matter what, and whatever else they said was fine by me, but it was that one statement that I didnt think need to be said. Be excited, be happy, they deserve it. But trashing a city that just lost its team is a bit low, IMO. I know what kind of outrage would be sparked in Canada if when the Washington Nationals moved from Montreal if the Nats announcers went out of their way to trash Montreal, as an example. Again, Canada, and Winnipeg specifically deserve their team back, they never deserved to lose it, but there were hockey fans in Atlanta, not many, but they were there, and the ones that were there, certainly knew Carey Prices name.

[twi]

Hmm, sorry about above quote, I'll blame a combo of iPhone and fingers. Anyways, I don't speak on behalf of any NASCAR division (you're very uneducated about the area if that's the description you can come up with, btw). I'm simply stating that I've yet to see any thing management-wise to be so excited about.

Interesting also how you group Ramsey into the ownership fiascos. He's a much better coach than anything on the Jets bench. Not sure what the point youre reaching to make here is. As someone who doesn't care either way about Atlanta or Winnipeg it's crazy to say they're much better off on ice. But fans going crazy in preseason games and being able to read first names are all you need i guess.

[NEW.ERA]

Alot of people were actually questioning that Claude Noel wasn't retained by the Blue Jackets, he's actually a really good coach.

[HedleyLamarr]

We're planning a little road trip to Tampa and Miami to catch the Jets games at the end of the month.

I can't wait to see the faux-Thrashers play the likes of Mark St. Louis, Sammy Stamkos, and Bill Campbell!

[The_Admiral]

I know what kind of outrage would be sparked in Canada if when the Washington Nationals moved from Montreal if the Nats announcers went out of their way to trash Montreal, as an example.

Point of order: Hughson and Simpson aren't the Jets' announcers, they're the CBC's announcers. Don't know much about Craig Simpson, but Jim "If a tree falls in a forest it's a Great Save Luongo" Hughson is a histrionic knob.

I don't remember too many people speaking very fondly of Montreal as a baseball town before, during, and after the Expos were moved. A few players spoke in code about missing the strip clubs, and there were some perfunctory remarks about Jackie Robinson (as all Robinson remarks seem to be these days), but remember that the official league stance on the Expos was FAILED MARKET FAILED MARKET FAILED MARKET.

[IceCap]

I know youre just going to stick up for them no matter what,

I could say you're just going to be offended by what they said no matter what. Either we can be adult and avoid over-generalizations serving as thinly veiled insults or we can just throw them around.

...and whatever else they said was fine by me, but it was that one statement that I didnt think need to be said. Be excited, be happy, they deserve it. But trashing a city that just lost its team is a bit low, IMO. I know what kind of outrage would be sparked in Canada if when the Washington Nationals moved from Montreal if the Nats announcers went out of their way to trash Montreal, as an example. Again, Canada, and Winnipeg specifically deserve their team back, they never deserved to lose it, but there were hockey fans in Atlanta, not many, but they were there, and the ones that were there, certainly knew Carey Prices name.

I'm not doubting that there were die-hard hockey fans in Atlanta. Just that there wasn't a significant number of them. Read the comments the CBC team made anyway you want, but at the end of the day they said "there's more knowledgeable, passionate hockey fans in Winnipeg then Atlanta" which is a true statement, and was probably made to justify the team moving on the announce team's part. If you're unhappy about how they made that statement take it up with the government of Canada (the CBC is government owned). I'm sure they'll get right on it. I know that's kind of a snarky response, but you're essentially upset over how the CBC presented a true statement. Outside of calling/writing to complain I don't know what to tell you.

Hmm, sorry about above quote, I'll blame a combo of iPhone and fingers. Anyways, I don't speak on behalf of any NASCAR division (you're very uneducated about the area if that's the description you can come up with, btw).

This from the guy who accused Canadians of "following the last Canadian team in the post-season like lemmings" and "having a sense of entitlement" is pretty rich. You can throw out broad generalizations about Canadians but as soon as someone from north of the Mason-Dixon line makes a broad generalization of the southeast they're "uneducated about the area"? I spent a year living in Florida during high school. Finding someone willing to discuss hockey was a chore.

I'm simply stating that I've yet to see any thing management-wise to be so excited about.

The Atlanta Spirit never really wanted to own a hockey team, they wanted to own the Hawks. They just got stuck with the Thrashers when they purchased the Hawks. True North is run by a team that's proven its commitment to winning hockey games at the AHL level. While the NHL is an entirely different animal, you still have an ownership/management structure in place that's not only proven itself committed to winning hockey games, but is also excited about owning a hockey team in the first place.

Interesting also how you group Ramsey into the ownership fiascos. He's a much better coach than anything on the Jets bench. Not sure what the point youre reaching to make here is.

Ramsy always came across as overrated to me. He looked like a million bucks when he inherited a good team to work with or was an assistant coach to someone who did know how to win, but when he was on his own he always came off as average. Not saying Claude Noel is the second coming of Scotty Bowman or anything, but Ramsey to Noel seems more like a lateral move then a downgrade to me.

As someone who doesn't care either way about Atlanta or Winnipeg it's crazy to say they're much better off on ice. But fans going crazy in preseason games and being able to read first names are all you need i guess.

Yes, having passionate fans who show up to games is an important step in establishing a hockey team as a worthwhile business venture!

I would first like to say, again, that it sucks how you lost your team. You, myself, and everyone not named Gary Bettman knows it should have been the Coyotes moving (back) to Winnipeg, not the Thrashers.

Ok. Now with that out of the way, it's in no way "elitist" or "revisionist" to claim that your average sports fan in Winnipeg is more knowledgeable/passionate about hockey then your average sports fan in Atlanta. Sorry, that's just how it is. If the Thrashers had more fans like you and Blueland over there then the team might still be in Atlanta. Thing is they didn't, and they aren't.

If anything here counts as "revisionist" it's the notion that the Atlanta Spirit group's bumbling is the only reason the Thrashers left. Fact is the Thrashers had problems drawing fans and tv ratings, as well as problems finding a stable niche in the Atlanta sports scene. Yeah, the Atlanta Spirit were terrible NHL owners, but lets not sit here and pretend that their bumbling drove away a dedicated, loyal fanbase. That fanbase, outside of a few diehards, didn't exist. Which is, at least partly, why they're playing north of the 49th right now.

In 2007, there were plenty of sellouts, and the team averaged well over 16,000 fans per game. The team was also making money back when Ted Turner owned the team. For a city that grew in population between 2007 and now, it's not like hockey fans just disappeared from Atlanta.

With an economic system meant to help the team and a proven history of having fans come out when the team is competitive, it's almost 100% the ownership's fault. Plus, as a guy that is "on the inside", I'll simply state that when it comes to the Thrashers/Atlanta Spirit situation, I'll just simply point out that you are out of your realm on this issue. Let's just say that I had a pretty damn good reason to stick around and watch the ice get taken out after the last game.

But yeah, it was an obvious cheap-shot by Craig Simpson (whomever is Jim Hughson's regular broadcasting partner on CBC) to say that the hockey fans in Atlanta wouldn't have known Carey Price's first name...and then chuckle at his own comment afterwards.

I'll take your word for it, as you do seem to have some kind of "in the know" access to the inner workings of the Hawks (and formally the Thrashers) regarding the level of ineptitude on the ASG's part. That being said, here's something worth considering.

The team I follow, the Toronto Maple Leafs, are owned by a multi-headed corporate monster that can't tell it's a$$ from its elbow. They haven't won a Cup since before the Moon Landing and they won't even sniff the playoffs on a consistent basis for a few more years. Yet fans show up night in and night out. If Atlanta went from sellouts to empty houses once the team's fortunes turned for the worst then you probably didn't have the dedicated fanbase you thought you did. I don't doubt that there were passionate hockey fans in Atlanta. You, Blueland, Flame, and others here are proof of that. I'm just saying that you guys were the exception, not the rule in the market.

[BLUELANDbeliever]

i thank you for that sir however, implications can and will be interpreted differently by everyone. I am sick and tired of the media taking shots and pumping up the WPG fans and implying that ATL fans are not knowledgeable, loud, good, or even caring fans. Hell, Ray Ferraro my boyhood idol when the Thrashers first came here dissed on us the other day on TSN. I am now ashamed to own a pair of his game worn gloves he gave me on opening night in 99.

[Still MIGHTY]

The team I follow, the Toronto Maple Leafs, are owned by a multi-headed corporate monster that can't tell it's a$$ from its elbow. They haven't won a Cup since before the Moon Landing and they won't even sniff the playoffs on a consistent basis for a few more years. Yet fans show up night in and night out. If Atlanta went from sellouts to empty houses once the team's fortunes turned for the worst then you probably didn't have the dedicated fanbase you thought you did. I don't doubt that there were passionate hockey fans in Atlanta. You, Blueland, Flame, and others here are proof of that. I'm just saying that you guys were the exception, not the rule in the market.

Comparing Atlanta to Toronto in the worst or best of times in terms of on-ice successes to attendance is completely apples and oranges. And really has nothing to do with the actual point of this conversation.

Yes, the number of passionate/knowledgeable hockey fans in Atlanta is less than that of Winnipeg or any Canadian city for that matter. But the CBC announcers didn't need to go out of their way to basically say that Thrashers fans were complete idiots that didn't know hockey players' first names, or even that they were idiot hockey fans for not knowing hockey players' first names.

Yeah, Winnipeg is probably a better hockey city than Atlanta. Go ahead and praise Winnipeg and say all the nice things about that. No need to drag Atlanta into it and degrade them, especially when as we've seen here, some of their fans still have methods of watching their old team and might actually do that from time to time.

[Don]

The team I follow, the Toronto Maple Leafs, are owned by a multi-headed corporate monster that can't tell it's a$$ from its elbow. They haven't won a Cup since before the Moon Landing and they won't even sniff the playoffs on a consistent basis for a few more years. Yet fans show up night in and night out. If Atlanta went from sellouts to empty houses once the team's fortunes turned for the worst then you probably didn't have the dedicated fanbase you thought you did. I don't doubt that there were passionate hockey fans in Atlanta. You, Blueland, Flame, and others here are proof of that. I'm just saying that you guys were the exception, not the rule in the market.

Comparing Atlanta to Toronto in the worst or best of times in terms of on-ice successes to attendance is completely apples and oranges. And really has nothing to do with the actual point of this conversation.

Yes, the number of passionate/knowledgeable hockey fans in Atlanta is less than that of Winnipeg or any Canadian city for that matter. But the CBC announcers didn't need to go out of their way to basically say that Thrashers fans were complete idiots that didn't know hockey players' first names, or even that they were idiot hockey fans for not knowing hockey players' first names.

Yeah, Winnipeg is probably a better hockey city than Atlanta. Go ahead and praise Winnipeg and say all the nice things about that. No need to drag Atlanta into it and degrade them, especially when as we've seen here, some of their fans still have methods of watching their old team and might actually do that from time to time.

This is it right here. But hey, let em say what they want, theyre excited! I would say I expect more from CBC but they employ Don Cherry.

[charger77]

Yeah, Winnipeg is probably a better hockey city than Atlanta.

Probably?

[charger77]

#1 Pick Ryan Nugent-Hopkins score his 1st goal in his 1st game last night.

[IceCap]

The team I follow, the Toronto Maple Leafs, are owned by a multi-headed corporate monster that can't tell it's a$$ from its elbow. They haven't won a Cup since before the Moon Landing and they won't even sniff the playoffs on a consistent basis for a few more years. Yet fans show up night in and night out. If Atlanta went from sellouts to empty houses once the team's fortunes turned for the worst then you probably didn't have the dedicated fanbase you thought you did. I don't doubt that there were passionate hockey fans in Atlanta. You, Blueland, Flame, and others here are proof of that. I'm just saying that you guys were the exception, not the rule in the market.

Comparing Atlanta to Toronto in the worst or best of times in terms of on-ice successes to attendance is completely apples and oranges. And really has nothing to do with the actual point of this conversation.

I said "lets not blame the ASG owners completely, it's not like there was a large, dedicated fanbase that they drove away." HedleyLamarr countered by saying "the Thrashers sold out when they were winning, and only left after the owners really started screwing things up." I said "owners have been screwing things up in Toronto since '67 and the fans still show up night in night out." Come on now. Surely you can connect the dots there. My point was that my original statement, that the Atlanta Spirit people didn't drive away a pre-existing large, dedicated Thrashers fanbase was correct. If the fans abandoned the team as soon as they hit a rough patch then they weren't that dedicated in the first place.

You're right, you can't compare the amount of dedicated, passionate hockey fans in Toronto, or any other Canadian city, to Atlanta. Which tells me that maybe Atlanta shouldn't have had a team in the first place.

Yes, the number of passionate/knowledgeable hockey fans in Atlanta is less than that of Winnipeg or any Canadian city for that matter. But the CBC announcers didn't need to go out of their way to basically say that Thrashers fans were complete idiots that didn't know hockey players' first names, or even that they were idiot hockey fans for not knowing hockey players' first names.

You're really blowing the comments out of proportion. At the end of the day they said "this team is now playing in a city with a large contingent of knowledgeable, passionate hockey fans, which they weren't while playing in Atlanta." And that's a true statement.

Yeah, Winnipeg is probably a better hockey city than Atlanta. Go ahead and praise Winnipeg and say all the nice things about that. No need to drag Atlanta into it and degrade them, especially when as we've seen here, some of their fans still have methods of watching their old team and might actually do that from time to time.

Again, probably? I'd say without a question.

Something you need to keep in mind is that deserving Canadian (and northern American for that matter) markets have been jerked around by the NHL in favour of unproven "potential" sunbelt market for close to two decades now. That many of these teams are starting prove that relocating and expanding to the south maybe wasn't the best business decision is simply proof to Canadian and northern American hockey fans that we were right. The Thrashers actually relocating to Winnipeg to become the Jets 2.0 is most visible symbol of that. Of course there's going to be a little bit of gloating on our end. We feel we've been taken for granted for a while now while the NHL dicked around in the sunbelt trying to fit square pegs into round holes and finally we have something tangible to celebrate, a reversal of the trend of the last 20 years.

[The_Admiral]

Canadian consumers and taxpayers literally subsidize Phoenix/Dallas hockey; maybe they get to say whatever the hell they want.