Let's discuss NBA fan culture

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, there's not too many "team-vs-team" rivalries in the NBA. The only rivalry that comes to mind is Lakers-Celtics, and even that rivalry is more for old time's sake than it is today's fervor. It's all about individual-vs-individual in today's NBA. It's "Kobe vs. Rose" or "Boston's Big Three vs. Miami's Big Three", etc.

I don't even feel there's much of that, though. Even when there were team-oriented rivalries, those, at their core, were between players: Bulls-Pistons was Michael-Isiah. No one has it out for LeBron half as much as Zeke did for Jordan. They're all buddies. Part of the NBA being all about larger-than-life individuals is that you expect that all of them can't co-exist. Right now I'd say they're all co-existing quite well. I think a lot of people miss the snarl that's gone away.

Oh and the Bucks aren't going to take a soul away from the Bulls in Illinois, get real; they should be worried about the other way around. Why did that even come up.

[McCall]

[WSU151]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Oh and the Bucks aren't going to take a soul away from the Bulls in Illinois, get real; they should be worried about the other way around. Why did that even come up.

Look, the last days of Tim Floyd were very dark times for me, okay?

[dfwabel]

There's actually a good reason why Laker games the fans sit on their hands and there's little "enthusiasm". It's because the most passionate Lakers fans really can't afford tickets and sit at home and watch the games. All the Lakers fans I know are extremely passionate, but can't afford to go to a game, let alone bring their families. The people who go to Lakers games tend to be people with money who go to be seen and not root for the team. It's kind of why I have a love/hate feeling about the Kings in the Cup Finals, more of these no-knowledge/no-caring fans will be coming out to Staples and ruining the experience for the real fans. I feel sorry for the true Lakers fans who would love to go to games but can't afford it.

That's B.S. The NHL has a higher average ticket price than the NBA by 20% and premium seat costs vary so much that they are not included in the average. The secondary ticket market (craigslist/eBay/StubHub...) has been available for those without the money for a full priced ticket for well over a decade. Plus, why must we have to measure or even debate who is a "true _____ fan" or how much "more passion" which local fanbase has? I have never read or heard about cities with

film festivals have to resort to say, "We are more passionate about film and movies than you, so there!"

I used to be obsessed with the NBA until Jordan retired in 1998 and the lockout at the same time. After it returned at the beginning of 1999, I realized just how much it sucked now. It had changed so much since the glory days of Magic, Bird and Jordan. That is when I gradually started my disinterest. I mainly blame all the high school to NBA jumpers. The talent level dropped so much when guys who weren't mature enough yet were acting like they were top s***. There are fewer KGs, Kobe's and LeBrons than than there are those guys. That's why I'm for raising the age to 21 and 3 years out of high school. College Basketball allows those guys the chance to mature and improve while still in a controlled situation that allows them to still kind of be kids. And as far as the fandom, I just find it more exciting than the staleness of the NBA.

It is about the marketing player than the team. It is essentially bandwagon; even more so by age and socio-economics. When Jordan/Bird/Magic came to town, fans of those teams flooded the venue more so in Bulls/Air Jordan gear since it was more commercially available.

Say we took an average regular season night in the NBA and each of us went to a venue to conduct a survey. Most fans under the age of 16 may not place the home team as their favorite, it would probably be given to the typical "winners" (LAL/SAS/BOS/MIA) or wherever their favorite player is at now (Lebron and Wade=MIA; Kobe= LAL; Rose=CHI). And that can really be said for the community in a given NBA city. When Kobe is in town, 15% of the crown is in LAL/Kobe gear.

We have conditioned people to root for the winners as opposed to the local team, and to a point I am OK with that.

[DaytonBlue]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

I don't see them getting rid of timeouts, but they definitely need to do something about timeouts at the end of games so the last two minutes doesn't take 20 minutes. They took one step in the right direction recently of reducing all timeouts except one to :20 at the 2-minute mark. I'd go a step further and say that all timeouts after the final under 2:59 media/mandatory timeout are 20 seconds and are ACTUALLY 20 seconds. Have your chat at that last media timeout, then let's play the game!

I will say the NBA timeout system works better than college basketball. In college basketball, you are much more likely to have a team call a full timeout, then 30 seconds later there is a media timeout.

I'll also say NFL timeouts are the worst. There is no reason NFL games shouldn't be finished in 3 hours most of the time.

[McCall]

There's actually a good reason why Laker games the fans sit on their hands and there's little "enthusiasm". It's because the most passionate Lakers fans really can't afford tickets and sit at home and watch the games. All the Lakers fans I know are extremely passionate, but can't afford to go to a game, let alone bring their families. The people who go to Lakers games tend to be people with money who go to be seen and not root for the team. It's kind of why I have a love/hate feeling about the Kings in the Cup Finals, more of these no-knowledge/no-caring fans will be coming out to Staples and ruining the experience for the real fans. I feel sorry for the true Lakers fans who would love to go to games but can't afford it.

That's B.S. The NHL has a higher average ticket price than the NBA by 20% and premium seat costs vary so much that they are not included in the average. The secondary ticket market (craigslist/eBay/StubHub...) has been available for those without the money for a full priced ticket for well over a decade. Plus, why must we have to measure or even debate who is a "true _____ fan" or how much "more passion" which local fanbase has? I have never read or heard about cities with

film festivals have to resort to say, "We are more passionate about film and movies than you, so there!"

I used to be obsessed with the NBA until Jordan retired in 1998 and the lockout at the same time. After it returned at the beginning of 1999, I realized just how much it sucked now. It had changed so much since the glory days of Magic, Bird and Jordan. That is when I gradually started my disinterest. I mainly blame all the high school to NBA jumpers. The talent level dropped so much when guys who weren't mature enough yet were acting like they were top s***. There are fewer KGs, Kobe's and LeBrons than than there are those guys. That's why I'm for raising the age to 21 and 3 years out of high school. College Basketball allows those guys the chance to mature and improve while still in a controlled situation that allows them to still kind of be kids. And as far as the fandom, I just find it more exciting than the staleness of the NBA.

It is about the marketing player than the team. It is essentially bandwagon; even more so by age and socio-economics. When Jordan/Bird/Magic came to town, fans of those teams flooded the venue more so in Bulls/Air Jordan gear since it was more commercially available.

Say we took an average regular season night in the NBA and each of us went to a venue to conduct a survey. Most fans under the age of 16 may not place the home team as their favorite, it would probably be given to the typical "winners" (LAL/SAS/BOS/MIA) or wherever their favorite player is at now (Lebron and Wade=MIA; Kobe= LAL; Rose=CHI). And that can really be said for the community in a given NBA city. When Kobe is in town, 15% of the crown is in LAL/Kobe gear.

We have conditioned people to root for the winners as opposed to the local team, and to a point I am OK with that.

I wasn't saying I stopped watching BECAUSE Jordan retired, just that it was at that point that I realized just how bad the league was. There were still Stockton and Malone, Robinson and Olajuwon, all who I consider part of the previous era, but it was just obvious that the league was no longer the same.

[Rockstar Matt]

There's actually a good reason why Laker games the fans sit on their hands and there's little "enthusiasm". It's because the most passionate Lakers fans really can't afford tickets and sit at home and watch the games. All the Lakers fans I know are extremely passionate, but can't afford to go to a game, let alone bring their families. The people who go to Lakers games tend to be people with money who go to be seen and not root for the team. It's kind of why I have a love/hate feeling about the Kings in the Cup Finals, more of these no-knowledge/no-caring fans will be coming out to Staples and ruining the experience for the real fans. I feel sorry for the true Lakers fans who would love to go to games but can't afford it.

That's me right there. I'm passionate about the Lakers, but tickets are so god damn expensive. So most of the crowd you see at Laker games are just people with loads of money who don't really "care" about the game. Our first 3 years in Staples, Laker crowds were loud and fantastic. Since then, they've been crap. The last time I heard an awesome crowd at a Laker game was Game 7 in the 2010 Finals against the Celtics. That was the last time we were actually loud.

[The_Admiral]

So what I think is worth asking is what do you do, if anything, about the NBA cities where nobody's at the games and the experience doesn't look like anything you want to be a part of? Phoenix didn't sell out a single game for the first time in who knows. Philadelphia is a shadow of itself. Milwaukee is a ghost town. Charlotte is a bomb scare. Sacramento is protesting the Maloofs, and we all know that nothing helps a team like not funding their operations. Is it going to start to be a problem for bottom lines if you can't sell tickets anymore, or do they get enough central revenue from national TV deals that there isn't that incentive to maximize ticket/concession/parking revenue like there is in, say, the NHL? Is it possible that for some of these lower teams to survive, they might have to start fostering a college atmosphere to get people excited about being at an NBA game again?

[McCall]

I think that's one of the reasons the Thunder have been so successful financially. They don't have celebrity fans. It's Oklahoma for pete's sake. They just have regular, everyday fans who come to watch because they love basketball and want to root for the hometown team. That, coupled with being a pretty new market to the NBA and major league sports in general, they haven't been "schooled" on how to be the typical NBA crowd, thankfully.

[Rockstar Matt]

That's B.S. The NHL has a higher average ticket price than the NBA by 20% and premium seat costs vary so much that they are not included in the average. The secondary ticket market (craigslist/eBay/StubHub...) has been available for those without the money for a full priced ticket for well over a decade. Plus, why must we have to measure or even debate who is a "true _____ fan" or how much "more passion" which local fanbase has? I have never read or heard about cities with

film festivals have to resort to say, "We are more passionate about film and movies than you, so there!"

We were talking about Laker games. Not the NBA average; Laker playoff games are ridiculously expensive. Much higher than the NBA average. In fact, if you ever go to a Lakers game, for the most part, you'll find the loudest fans up in the 300's (the seats that are only 250+ during Laker playoff games). I have a job, but not a well paying one and that ticket is three weeks worth of pay for me. It's too expensive.

[tBBP]

I think that's one of the reasons the Thunder have been so successful financially. They don't have celebrity fans. It's Oklahoma for pete's sake. They just have regular, everyday fans who come to watch because they love basketball and want to root for the hometown team. That, coupled with being a pretty new market to the NBA and major league sports in general, they haven't been "schooled" on how to be the typical NBA crowd, thankfully.

I'm gonna try to interject an opinion/observation and hope that it turns out halfway intelligible.

I remember reading somewhere that the NBA would ideally prefer to be in markets where they're "the only game in town", or at least not in direct competition with the NHL and/or NFL. Don't know how much truth, if any, there is to that, but if it is, I wonder of it's due to reasons like what's quoted above. I mean granted, OKC is still the new kid on the block, so to speak...but I think back to the early part of last decade, out in Sacramento, when Kings fans were packed up into Arco Arena and had that place rocking with them damn cowbells?that seemed like genuine "everyman" fan interest to me. And to hear the couple of former classmates who wound up in San Antonio tell it, it's always been that way with the Spurs there (though I can't recall any lasting images of raucous fan interest through the TV). I know for a while folks in Orlando were wild about the Magic, but I haven't been down there in years so I have no clue how that's been lately. (But then, Orlando isn't exactly an "isolated market", per se, considering its proximity to the Tampa area.) And someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I've always thought the Blazers enjoyed great fan sipport...though I can understand if that's been tempered somewhat due to that whole Jail Blazers epidemic combined with the relative mediocrity of late. A similar spell of off-the-court incidents?combined with one very big on-the-court incident?turnrd a lot of Hoosiers off to the Pacers before the long period of sucktitude damn near completely wiped out whatever fanbase they had left and, if I remember right, just about cost Indiana their NBA team. (Now I don't think Indianapolis is exactly considered an isolated market either, at least not in the vein of the aforementioned teams...but considering we're talking about a capital city stuck smack in the middle of 36,400-something square miles of cornfields, perhaps it should be. ) Last year, I noticed some rekindling of fan interest last year, though you were probably more likely to be sold on either Derrick Rose or LeBron/DWade coming to town than you were on the home team. (Seriously, there are more billboards around town advertising those guys and their teams than there are for Indy's OWN team.) This year, however, fan support has spiked, and it seemed like the city really came alive to rally around their now-upstart Pacers.

Anyway, the reason said all that is to ask this of those of y'all more knowledgeable than I: now obviously, the level of fan support will alwaya in some way be tied to success versis sucking, but might the (somewhat) isolated market factor into the genuine enthusiasm of some certain teams versus those of firmly entrenched teams, say, like L.A., Chicago, New York, or Boston? It does, to me at least, seem like certain teams seem to enjoy better and more enthusiastic?or at least less fake?fan support in places where there's really no other major teams in or near town to cheer for. Am I alone on this? Just curious.

[The_Admiral]

The Jail Blazers' stench (so to speak) has been gone for years, actually. Portland is regularly at or above 100% capacity now.

I would agree that the only-game-in-town effect does a lot to foster a lot of the grassroots passion that's absent from more saturated markets, and yeah, it has been that way for a while, come to think of it. Only now has it dawned on me that the Oklahoma City of 2012 is nothing so much as the Salt Lake City of 1997, wherein sensibility-offending religious types get to mawkishly scream their asses off for better basketball than almost anywhere else, much to the chagrin of suffering cosmopolitans.

[tBBP]

Damn...speaking of "isolated markets", how the hell did I forget about the Utah Jazz??? And now that you've triggered my memory, I can now clearly remember the (then-named) Delta Center being packed to the max, fans rabid as hell. I've always liked that team, Coach Sloan, and of course, those mid-late '90 uniforms. I mean hell, how can you NOT love a team who pick-and-rolled their opponents to DEATH, opponents KNEW what was coming and STILL couldn't stop it, and still found their way into the Finals? Oh and let's not forget that ace three-point over-the-shoulder shooter of theirs.

(Oh and Jazz fans...if it helps anything, yes it was a push-off. Y'all should know what I'm talking about. )

[DustDevil61]

Damn...speaking of "isolated markets", how the hell did I forget about the Utah Jazz??? And now that you've triggered my memory, I can now clearly remember the (then-named) Delta Center being packed to the max, fans rabid as hell. I've always liked that team, Coach Sloan, and of course, those mid-late '90 uniforms. I mean hell, how can you NOT love a team who pick-and-rolled their opponents to DEATH, opponents KNEW what was coming and STILL couldn't stop it, and still found their way into the Finals? Oh and let's not forget that ace three-point over-the-shoulder shooter of theirs.

(Oh and Jazz fans...if it helps anything, yes it was a push-off. Y'all should know what I'm talking about. )

I was wondering how long until Utah was mentioned. Yes, Buc, I'm all too aware of The Push-Off.

[knnhrvy16]

Oh dear, the push-off. My worst childhood memory.

[tBBP]

Hey now...I wasn't trying to rub no salt...dayum!!

Nah...even sixteen-year-old me knew that was a push-off and should have been called. Yeah, great story that the G.O.A.T. (in most minds, anyway) sunk his final shot in his final game [or so we thought at the time] to sew up the repeat three-peat...but that scene will forever be tainted in my mind because the man pushed off. I mean, it's entirely possible the Bulls would've won, anyway, but still...what a way to go.

By the way...when's the last time anyone heard from Jeff Hornacek???

[Foxxtrot44]

Hey now...I wasn't trying to rub no salt...dayum!!

Nah...even sixteen-year-old me knew that was a push-off and should have been called. Yeah, great story that the G.O.A.T. (in most minds, anyway) sunk his final shot in his final game [or so we thought at the time] to sew up the repeat three-peat...but that scene will forever be tainted in my mind because the man pushed off. I mean, it's entirely possible the Bulls would've won, anyway, but still...what a way to go.

By the way...when's the last time anyone heard from Jeff Hornacek???

He's an assistant coach for the Jazz...so we hear from him fairly regularly...

[tBBP]

Ah...did not know that. Nice! So Black Ty's got him a former squad member on his staff. That's got to be helpful. Think he'll ever teach Gordon Heyward that goofy-ass over-the-shoulder jump shot Hornacek was known for (and deadly effective with)?

Also, just in case you can't tell, Jeff Hornacek was one of my favorite players to watch.

[knnhrvy16]

Oh yeah, Hornacek's still pretty loved here! Has his number retired and everything. Seemed everyone (including myself, of course) was absolutely thrilled when he joined the staff.

I've got some pretty good memories of Hornacek, even though I was only eight when he retired. In my family, we all had our individual favorite Jazzmen. Mine was Stockton, my brother's was Malone, my mother's was Big Dawg Carr, and my Dad's was Hornacek - so he always talked about him. That unorthodox shot (which Buc described quite well! ) seemingly always heaving a twine-tickler, and Hot Rod Hundley shouting the ever-awkward "HORNY!! FOR THREE!!" at the top of his lungs when it went in. Thank goodness everyone was a Jazz fan and knew what little six-year old me was referring to when shouting that very phrase during recess basketball games, or I may have made daily trips to the Principal's office.