Let's discuss NBA fan culture

[The Six]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

Not only are there too many timeouts, but the rules regarding fouling are backwards. The system has been so easy to abuse that teams foul to their own advantage, which ostensibly goes against the spirit of the rule. What comes after a foul is supposed to be a punishment for the offending team (notwithstanding whether or not the player who was fouled is a bad free throw shooter). When a guy is driving toward the basket, I want to see him finish the play, make or miss. But instead defenders foul them, and we're deprived of seeing the finish. Too many stoppages. It's completely counter-intuitive to making good entertainment.

The last 2:00 of a close game is a hollow carnival of timeouts, fouling, free throws, and inbounds passes. It's supposed to be the most exciting part of a game, but NBA rules allow it to be horrible.

[loogodude90]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

Not only are there too many timeouts, but the rules regarding fouling are backwards. The system has been so easy to abuse that teams foul to their own advantage, which ostensibly goes against the spirit of the rule. What comes after a foul is supposed to be a punishment for the offending team (notwithstanding whether or not the player who was fouled is a bad free throw shooter). When a guy is driving toward the basket, I want to see him finish the play, make or miss. But instead defenders foul them, and we're deprived of seeing the finish. Too many stoppages. It's completely counter-intuitive to making good entertainment.

The last 2:00 of a close game is a hollow carnival of timeouts, fouling, free throws, and inbounds passes. It's supposed to be the most exciting part of a game, but NBA rules allow it to be horrible.

Then don't watch, and let those of us who enjoy the game, continue to.

The last 2:00 of a close game is the most exciting part of the game. Fouls, timeouts, free throws, and inbounds passes are a part of the game. This isn't :censored:ing 2-on-2 in your backyard.

[Sport]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

Not only are there too many timeouts, but the rules regarding fouling are backwards. The system has been so easy to abuse that teams foul to their own advantage, which ostensibly goes against the spirit of the rule. What comes after a foul is supposed to be a punishment for the offending team (notwithstanding whether or not the player who was fouled is a bad free throw shooter). When a guy is driving toward the basket, I want to see him finish the play, make or miss. But instead defenders foul them, and we're deprived of seeing the finish. Too many stoppages. It's completely counter-intuitive to making good entertainment.

The last 2:00 of a close game is a hollow carnival of timeouts, fouling, free throws, and inbounds passes. It's supposed to be the most exciting part of a game, but NBA rules allow it to be horrible.

Then don't watch, and let those of us who enjoy the game, continue to.

The last 2:00 of a close game is the most exciting part of the game. Fouls, timeouts, free throws, and inbounds passes are a part of the game. This isn't :censored:ing 2-on-2 in your backyard.

They're a bad part of the game. And like you said, that's why I don't watch.

[loogodude90]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

Not only are there too many timeouts, but the rules regarding fouling are backwards. The system has been so easy to abuse that teams foul to their own advantage, which ostensibly goes against the spirit of the rule. What comes after a foul is supposed to be a punishment for the offending team (notwithstanding whether or not the player who was fouled is a bad free throw shooter). When a guy is driving toward the basket, I want to see him finish the play, make or miss. But instead defenders foul them, and we're deprived of seeing the finish. Too many stoppages. It's completely counter-intuitive to making good entertainment.

The last 2:00 of a close game is a hollow carnival of timeouts, fouling, free throws, and inbounds passes. It's supposed to be the most exciting part of a game, but NBA rules allow it to be horrible.

Then don't watch, and let those of us who enjoy the game, continue to.

The last 2:00 of a close game is the most exciting part of the game. Fouls, timeouts, free throws, and inbounds passes are a part of the game. This isn't :censored:ing 2-on-2 in your backyard.

They're a bad part of the game. And like you said, that's why I don't watch.

I don't see what you're getting at here. What is your solution, to not call fouls the last two minutes? No free throws allowed during the last two minutes? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...

And the most ridiculous complaint is about the timeouts. Would you rather see a team try to run a play, or just a big cluster:censored: of a teams running around like a chickens with their heads cut off in the most crucial moment of the game?

The game would be so much worse if you got rid of those things. So much strategy would be taken away.

[Sport]

Part of the problem is timeouts. Home teams go on a run, crowd gets in a frenzy...and... time out taken, we'll see you in three minutes. Too many stoppages in basketball (and pro football, really). It really just kills any fan excitement. Then, two seconds before the time out ends, the mascot comes out, holds up a sign that reads "GET LOUD" and TV comes back on making it seem like there's still some fan excitement, but in reality, it's forced and the true fervor died out after the first commercial ended. Cut down on the timeouts each team gets per half; I realize there are bills to pay, but 45 commercial breaks in 2.5 hours gets tedious, even for the fans in the arena.

Not only are there too many timeouts, but the rules regarding fouling are backwards. The system has been so easy to abuse that teams foul to their own advantage, which ostensibly goes against the spirit of the rule. What comes after a foul is supposed to be a punishment for the offending team (notwithstanding whether or not the player who was fouled is a bad free throw shooter). When a guy is driving toward the basket, I want to see him finish the play, make or miss. But instead defenders foul them, and we're deprived of seeing the finish. Too many stoppages. It's completely counter-intuitive to making good entertainment.

The last 2:00 of a close game is a hollow carnival of timeouts, fouling, free throws, and inbounds passes. It's supposed to be the most exciting part of a game, but NBA rules allow it to be horrible.

Then don't watch, and let those of us who enjoy the game, continue to.

The last 2:00 of a close game is the most exciting part of the game. Fouls, timeouts, free throws, and inbounds passes are a part of the game. This isn't :censored:ing 2-on-2 in your backyard.

They're a bad part of the game. And like you said, that's why I don't watch.

I don't see what you're getting at here. What is your solution, to not call fouls the last two minutes? No free throws allowed during the last two minutes? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense...

And the most ridiculous complaint is about the timeouts. Would you rather see a team try to run a play, or just a big cluster:censored: of a teams running around like a chickens with their heads cut off in the most crucial moment of the game?

The game would be so much worse if you got rid of those things. So much strategy would be taken away.

My biggest problem with the sport of basketball is the very idea of the foul. These are the largest athletes in the world playing on the smallest surface and the entire game has to stop if someone nudges someone else. Eliminate the ticky-tack fouls from the rule book altogether is my solution. Also, I'd rather see game play decide the end of the game than people strolling around the court while one guy shoots baskets with no contest. It'd be like the end of NFL games being decided by lining up the kickers 8 or 9 times each with no rush from the opposition.

To your second question, yes I would love to see chaos. There's way too many timeouts in basketball. Mistakes made by professionals who should know what they're doing by now is more fun to watch than choreography. That's what the halftime dancers are for.

But again, I literally don't watch the sport, so I'm following your suggestion.

[Jigga]

Why are you commenting so much on the 'culture' of a sport that you (go to great lengths to tell us often that you) don't watch or like?

[Gothamite]

I agree on both counts, McCarthy - that's a big reason why I stopped following the sport years ago.

[Sport]

Why are you commenting so much on the 'culture' of a sport that you (go to great lengths to tell us often that you) don't watch or like?

Because I often come into contact or encounter the 'culture' despite my best efforts to avoid it and the thread is called "let's discuss NBA fan culture". Now, my last few posts haven't related to the culture as much as the sport and I'll admit that, but I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodude asked me a question so I answered it.

[The_Admiral]

By the same token, could the end of a football game with its ball-spiking and intentional out-of-bounds be considered gaming the system and thus the clock should be made to keep running?

Besides, is this a problem endemic to the NBA? I would think that college coaching would be even more tedious, and nobody is concerned with college attendance/fan experience.

[DustDevil61]

Hey now...I wasn't trying to rub no salt...dayum!!

Nah...even sixteen-year-old me knew that was a push-off and should have been called. Yeah, great story that the G.O.A.T. (in most minds, anyway) sunk his final shot in his final game [or so we thought at the time] to sew up the repeat three-peat...but that scene will forever be tainted in my mind because the man pushed off. I mean, it's entirely possible the Bulls would've won, anyway, but still...what a way to go.

By the way...when's the last time anyone heard from Jeff Hornacek???

No worries...it's great that you agree with the Utah Jazz fan contingent on The Push. Just saying that to clear things up.

[McCall]

Why are you commenting so much on the 'culture' of a sport that you (go to great lengths to tell us often that you) don't watch or like?

Because I often come into contact or encounter the 'culture' despite my best efforts to avoid it and the thread is called "let's discuss NBA fan culture". Now, my last few posts haven't related to the culture as much as the sport and I'll admit that, but I Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooogodude asked me a question so I answered it.

Plus some of us used to be big fans before the league went to hell, so I think wanting to see it return to the level of it's glory days is worthy of us complaining about it even if we've mainly stopped watching it do to the aforementioned sucking.

[Gothamite]

By the same token, could the end of a football game with its ball-spiking and intentional out-of-bounds be considered gaming the system and thus the clock should be made to keep running?

Besides, is this a problem endemic to the NBA? I would think that college coaching would be even more tedious, and nobody is concerned with college attendance/fan experience.

Timeouts at the end of football don't bother me; different sports are a different experience.

As to college; that's a different thread. We can evaluate the pro game on its own merits, or lack thereof.

[BBTV]

I hate all the fouls at the end of basketball games, and used to think that they should be considered "flagrant" fouls (since they're obviously intentional, whether or not there's any actual harm done to the recipient) but the more I think about it, there's really no way to enforce that - players will just get better at making fouls look accidental, even if we all know that they're not.

Maybe make all fouls on players who aren't shooting (like a guy on the winning team who just takes the inbound pass) count for 2 fouls and the ball, whether or not it's on purpose? Or just get rid of the bonus thing and make them non-shooting fouls?

[illwauk]

So what I think is worth asking is what do you do, if anything, about the NBA cities where nobody's at the games and the experience doesn't look like anything you want to be a part of? Phoenix didn't sell out a single game for the first time in who knows. Philadelphia is a shadow of itself. Milwaukee is a ghost town. Charlotte is a bomb scare. Sacramento is protesting the Maloofs, and we all know that nothing helps a team like not funding their operations. Is it going to start to be a problem for bottom lines if you can't sell tickets anymore, or do they get enough central revenue from national TV deals that there isn't that incentive to maximize ticket/concession/parking revenue like there is in, say, the NHL? Is it possible that for some of these lower teams to survive, they might have to start fostering a college atmosphere to get people excited about being at an NBA game again?

I think Milwaukee's problem (or at least a huge chunk of it) is that Wisconsinites on a whole prefer sports that lend themselves to tailgating culture, hence the Brewers can still drawing decently during lean times while the Bucks have trouble selling out playoff games. That said, I think you may be on to something with that last sentence, since college games are closer to a tailgating atmosphere despite not having any actual outdoor grilling. It's why Marquette is now out-drawing the Bucks (or at least close to it) and why the UWM can still draw a good 4-5,000 fans to games despite third-class status and playing in a building the Bucks left well over two decades ago.

That, and the NBA has essentially priced itself out of the budget of its most hardcore fans. For the price of a nosebleed ticket to a Bucks game, you can either sit near the floor at a Marquette game, or sit near the floor at a UWM game and still have enough left over for a beer and a snack.

[The_Admiral]

I know that when Bogut was in town, there was some collegesque section called the Insane Asylum or the Cell Block or the Nuthouse or something, where everyone would get really loud and heckle the opposition and start chants and stuff. I don't think they do it anymore, but at least they gave it the old college try.

[illwauk]

Yea... the "Fear The Deer" campaign was another attempt to college-ize the Bucks. But it begs the question of why anyone would pay NBA prices for a fake college atmosphere when two actual college teams play within play at, and across the street from, the Bradley Center. And despite Herb Kohl promising to "help" pay for a new arena, taxpayers are overwhelmingly against footing even part of the bill, so until something changes, the Bucks are as good as gone and I can't say a whole lot of people around here will miss them. I'd just hope potential NHL and MLS owner would look at the situation objectively and not hold it against us.

[HedleyLamarr]

By the same token, could the end of a football game with its ball-spiking and intentional out-of-bounds be considered gaming the system and thus the clock should be made to keep running?

Besides, is this a problem endemic to the NBA? I would think that college coaching would be even more tedious, and nobody is concerned with college attendance/fan experience.

Part of the reason why NBA games seem to take forever is that they have that dumb "call a timeout, move the ball to the offensive half" rule. Not much time runs off the clock between the ball being inbounded and shot. I don't watch the college game too much outside of tournament time, but their game seems to not slow down to a crawl in the last minute.

The NBA should go with a 28-to-30-second shot clock. No more moving up the ball on a timeout called. And you only get one full-length timeout in the last minute of the game...the rest of your remaining timeouts become 20-second timeouts.

[McCall]

By the same token, could the end of a football game with its ball-spiking and intentional out-of-bounds be considered gaming the system and thus the clock should be made to keep running?

Besides, is this a problem endemic to the NBA? I would think that college coaching would be even more tedious, and nobody is concerned with college attendance/fan experience.

Part of the reason why NBA games seem to take forever is that they have that dumb "call a timeout, move the ball to the offensive half" rule. Not much time runs off the clock between the ball being inbounded and shot. I don't watch the college game too much outside of tournament time, but their game seems to not slow down to a crawl in the last minute.

The NBA should go with a 28-to-30-second shot clock. No more moving up the ball on a timeout called. And you only get one full-length timeout in the last minute of the game...the rest of your remaining timeouts become 20-second timeouts.

Shot clock change? Heh. Maybe. But those other changes I agree with. I never got the time out-move the ball up rule. I'd say no full time outs inside 2:00. Change them to :25 or :30 if need be.

[Gothamite]

Yea... the "Fear The Deer" campaign was another attempt to college-ize the Bucks. But it begs the question of why anyone would pay NBA prices for a fake college atmosphere when two actual college teams play within play at, and across the street from, the Bradley Center. And despite Herb Kohl promising to "help" pay for a new arena, taxpayers are overwhelmingly against footing even part of the bill, so until something changes, the Bucks are as good as gone and I can't say a whole lot of people around here will miss them. I'd just hope potential NHL and MLS owner would look at the situation objectively and not hold it against us.

Not wanting to go too far off-topic, but Milwaukee has such an amazing youth and amateur soccer culture, I'm surprised nobody's tried to put even an NASL club there. Maybe if the Chicago Sting had gone through with the move.

Anyway, I agree. The Bucks are in serious trouble.

[RyanMcD29]

Fouls aren't the problem, as late game fouling's part of the sport and its strategy. The timeout system could be reformed a bit, though. For starters, have :20 timeouts actually be :20 timeouts. Don't go to commercial break for every single timeout towards the end of the game. That's what disrupts the flow of the game quite a bit