2012 NFL Season Thread

[The_Admiral]

I'll give you that holding out Cris Carter on so-called character flaws--which he overcame quite well--is stupid, but let's not pretend that Ray Lewis's was but one fleeting indiscretion.

[Kramerica Industries]

Shortly after, Carter had a falling out with coach Buddy Ryan and was a surprise cut following the pre-season. Carter later admitted that Ryan released him because of alcohol and drug abuse, large amounts of ecstasy and marijuana being his drugs of choice, and credits his former coach with helping him turn his life around as a result

I think that last line is the one that should be bolded.

Far too often, and its human nature, people are so quick to pull up negativity on one another. Dirt, scandal...it's what sells. (Otherwise the paparazzi and the tabloid industry wouldn't exist.) There's also those who are so quick to judge it ain't even funny. But why can't people be that quick if not quickER to credit these same people for the positives...like Cris Carter turning his life around and having his most productive years in Minnesota?

The other thing that I find funny is those who are quick to resort to sarcasm/snarkiness, rush judgement and/or bring up dirt from the past usually only have that one or two thing(s) to use (like Ray Lewis and the Super Bowl thing...what other trouble has he gotten into during his time in the league? Quick—anybody? Anybody at all??).

And, as we've seen time and again, especially up in here...those naysayers more often than not end up being the same people—over and over again. To the point of predictability. Which probably says more about THEM than whatever dirt they keep flinging says about those they keep digging the dirt on.

That depends on what the focus is, though.

I bolded that line because it lent credence to what pmoehrin is talking about, when it comes to character issues Cris Carter had.

[The_Admiral]

Honestly, having done drugs and then stopped doing drugs en route to a terrific career isn't really a big deal. Being involved in a murder is, though!

[Gothamite]

Honestly, having done drugs and then stopped doing drugs en route to a terrific career isn't really a big deal. Being involved in a murder is, though!

Yeah, there is that.

Chris Carter might be an asshat, but so far that hasn't resulted in a death.

[CS85]

Love or hate Ray Lewis, this video is pretty badass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcSBw76_tpk

[Funky Bunky]

Ravens look so much better with the black pants than with the white ones.

[BlueSky]

FWIW, what I've read about the HOF criteria voters should use is, "Could the story of the NFL be written without mentioning this person?" (That might have been Peter King saying that but I can't recall.) Seems like a fair barometer. IMO too many people get consideration for the HOF. It should be reserved for the best of the best. Especially when you think about what happens if someone who doesn't belong gets in. Then we start the "Well, if A is in, B should be too." Then the standard just declines over time.

[Eye]

FWIW, what I've read about the HOF criteria voters should use is, "Could the story of the NFL be written without mentioning this person?" (That might have been Peter King saying that but I can't recall.) Seems like a fair barometer. IMO too many people get consideration for the HOF. It should be reserved for the best of the best. Especially when you think about what happens if someone who doesn't belong gets in. Then we start the "Well, if A is in, B should be too." Then the standard just declines over time.

This criteria is so incredibly subjective, that it just can't be used.

[Gothamite]

Which makes it perfect for Peter King.

[BlueSky]

FWIW, what I've read about the HOF criteria voters should use is, "Could the story of the NFL be written without mentioning this person?" (That might have been Peter King saying that but I can't recall.) Seems like a fair barometer. IMO too many people get consideration for the HOF. It should be reserved for the best of the best. Especially when you think about what happens if someone who doesn't belong gets in. Then we start the "Well, if A is in, B should be too." Then the standard just declines over time.

This criteria is so incredibly subjective, that it just can't be used.

Okay...what's your alternative? It's a subjective process by any method. You can't just use stats, and if you did, which ones? Does Marino get in without any playoff success? Do you keep Namath out because other than SB III he really didn't do much? How does an offensive lineman ever get in? And so on.

[pmoehrin]

FWIW, what I've read about the HOF criteria voters should use is, "Could the story of the NFL be written without mentioning this person?" (That might have been Peter King saying that but I can't recall.) Seems like a fair barometer. IMO too many people get consideration for the HOF. It should be reserved for the best of the best. Especially when you think about what happens if someone who doesn't belong gets in. Then we start the "Well, if A is in, B should be too." Then the standard just declines over time.

This criteria is so incredibly subjective, that it just can't be used.

Okay...what's your alternative? It's a subjective process by any method. You can't just use stats, and if you did, which ones? Does Marino get in without any playoff success? Do you keep Namath out because other than SB III he really didn't do much? How does an offensive lineman ever get in? And so on.

I just ask two questions for every Hall of Fame. Did he dominate his position at any point and did he have prolonged success in his sport? I tend to put more weight on the first question then the second one. I'll look past a guy like Kurt Warner's career numbers which aren't that impressive because he was a two time NFL MVP and at his best was as good as anyone to ever play the position.

I won't look past Vinny Testaverde's lack of dominance just because he has over 45K passing yards. In any given year I can find you half a dozen QB's I rather have on my team then him.

And the all-time greats like Favre, Fouts, Marino, Montana Tarketon and Unitas have both the career numbers and the dominance factor.

Its still subjective, but so is every method. In terms of "could the story of the NFL be told without player X" I'm not big on using a narrative method to pick out players, but I do know there are people out there who are. The best example of my issue with it is the case of Roger Maris for being in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

There are alot of people who want to put Roger Maris in the Hall of Fame simply because he was the all-time single season home run king. But if he hits 57 home runs that year, I don't think he gets nearly the amount of support he does. So that tells me most people that support Roger Maris aren't supporting him, they're supporting the home run record and if that's the case then your going outside what the criteria calls for because you have an emotional attachment to a record. That's the problem I see with using narratives to determine whether or not guys get in. It becomes alot easier to lose sight of what you should really be looking for.

[dbadefense1990]

"Could the story of the NFL be written without mentioning this person?"

Imagine John Facenda speaking this phrase to the tune of Sam Spence in the frozen tundras.

It's bliss.

[BlueSky]

@CS85...thanks for sharing the video. You're right, it's pretty cool (though the Dark Knight thing is a little corny). It answered a question I had too. Ray Lewis is so competitive yet he reacted so calmly to that missed FG and losing the game even though their season was over. From the video I took it to be because he always leaves the field with the inner peace of knowing he gave everything he had, did everything he could to influence the outcome. As you said, love him or hate him, and plenty of people do both, and yeah, it bothers me that we'll probably never know the whole truth of what happened in Atlanta...but what he says about effort and passion and chasing your legacy etc. is 100% true.

When he's done at ESPN he might end up in a pulpit somewhere. I'd listen.

[IceCap]

On the whole Hall of Fame thing, I think a big problem all halls have is their need to have annual inductions. If, one year, no one is good enough to get in then no one should get in.

[ninersdd]

One thing I was thinking about was how AP ran the ball 35 times on Sunday, and he only gets 5 days of rest. He can't be as effective, can he? Then again he has rushed it several times around 30 this year, so I can't doubt he won't run out of gas. If he struggles in any way, the Vikes won't have a prayer.

[dfwabel]

One thing I was thinking about was how AP ran the ball 35 times on Sunday, and he only gets 5 days of rest. He can't be as effective, can he? Then again he has rushed it several times around 30 this year, so I can't doubt he won't run out of gas. If he struggles in any way, the Vikes won't have a prayer.

MIN did play a Sunday/Thursday earlier this year in which they won Sunday (AZ) but lost Thursday (TB)

Sunday: 23/151/1 MIN ran 44 total plays and Peterson had 25 total touches.

Thursday: 15/123/1 MIN ran 56 total plays and Peterson had 16 total touches.

If NBC picked SEA@WAS for Saturday night, one could claim that a west to east trip for a Saturday game would be unfair to SEA

[dfwabel]

@CS85...thanks for sharing the video. You're right, it's pretty cool (though the Dark Knight thing is a little corny). It answered a question I had too. Ray Lewis is so competitive yet he reacted so calmly to that missed FG and losing the game even though their season was over. From the video I took it to be because he always leaves the field with the inner peace of knowing he gave everything he had, did everything he could to influence the outcome. As you said, love him or hate him, and plenty of people do both, and yeah, it bothers me that we'll probably never know the whole truth of what happened in Atlanta...but what he says about effort and passion and chasing your legacy etc. is 100% true.

When he's done at ESPN he might end up in a pulpit somewhere. I'd listen.

He may not have to be done at ESPN to be in a Sunday pulpit.

Since his son will be a Frosh RB at Miami, he wants to see him play. That takes him out of being in Bristol for Sunday GameDay show prep. He is more likely going to join the in-stadium Monday night group of Scott, Dilfer, and Young.

[pmoehrin]

One thing I was thinking about was how AP ran the ball 35 times on Sunday, and he only gets 5 days of rest. He can't be as effective, can he? Then again he has rushed it several times around 30 this year, so I can't doubt he won't run out of gas. If he struggles in any way, the Vikes won't have a prayer.

I think it could definitely be an issue. It certainly burned Chuck Knox a few times.

At the same time though if there's anyone that can handle that kind of workload and still be effective on a short week its Adrian Peterson. I think the Vikings have a better shot then most people think. For as good as the Packers have been, they've only won two games by double digits over the past four years. I don't see this being an easy win for the Packers. I think its going to be a very hard fought game, and Minnesota could very well pull the upset, especially if they are able to keep it close through the first half. The one thing they can't afford to do above anything else is fall behind early. Green Bay getting an early lead is the most effective way of taking Adrian Peterson out of the game.

[Kramerica Industries]

One thing I was thinking about was how AP ran the ball 35 times on Sunday, and he only gets 5 days of rest. He can't be as effective, can he? Then again he has rushed it several times around 30 this year, so I can't doubt he won't run out of gas. If he struggles in any way, the Vikes won't have a prayer.

I think it could definitely be an issue. It certainly burned Chuck Knox a few times.

At the same time though if there's anyone that can handle that kind of workload and still be effective on a short week its Adrian Peterson. I think the Vikings have a better shot then most people think. For as good as the Packers have been, they've only won two games by double digits over the past four years. I don't see this being an easy win for the Packers. I think its going to be a very hard fought game, and Minnesota could very well pull the upset, especially if they are able to keep it close through the first half. The one thing they can't afford to do above anything else is fall behind early. Green Bay getting an early lead is the most effective way of taking Adrian Peterson out of the game.

This has to mean two games over the Vikings in such a fashion. Reason I say this is because that statement could definitely confuse some people at first reading.

[ninersdd]

Watching ESPNEWS, they previewed the Texans-Bengals, and there notes were "Texans are 0-3 after beating Bengals by 1 in Week 14" and its their first ever playoff game. Essentially copied last years notes. Oops.