hettinger_rl Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 If one or two teams would be added in the west do you guys think that MN and Memphis should be slid into the east?Minnesota??? How about New Orleans?If two teams get added to the West, I think that the Timberwolves should be the only ones moving to the East.It does make more sense. New Orleans makes more sense on a map, but Minnesota is closer to the entire Central division than it is to any other Western Conference team. Travel-wise, Minnesota makes more sense than even Memphis to go East.Closest Western Conference team to Minneapolis= OKC= 788 mi.to Milwaukee= 337 mito Chicago= 409 mito Indianapolis= 592 mito Detroit= 694 mito Cleveland= 750 miNew Orleans could work also, I based the thought on; what feature, historically, splits our country? The Mississippi river. All three of these teams sit on it. Also, Memphis is about as close to Indy as it is to Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerslionspistonshabs Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 If one or two teams would be added in the west do you guys think that MN and Memphis should be slid into the east?Minnesota??? How about New Orleans?If two teams get added to the West, I think that the Timberwolves should be the only ones moving to the East.It does make more sense. New Orleans makes more sense on a map, but Minnesota is closer to the entire Central division than it is to any other Western Conference team. Travel-wise, Minnesota makes more sense than even Memphis to go East.Closest Western Conference team to Minneapolis= OKC= 788 mi.to Milwaukee= 337 mito Chicago= 409 mito Indianapolis= 592 mito Detroit= 694 mito Cleveland= 750 miNew Orleans could work also, I based the thought on; what feature, historically, splits our country? The Mississippi river. All three of these teams sit on it. Also, Memphis is about as close to Indy as it is to Dallas.Yes you have a point, but Memphis is still a stones throw from their whole division. Minnesota is not. Minnesota is closer to the entire Eastern Conference than it is to their own division mate in Portland.New Orleans, again, could work on a map, but they're so close to the 3 Texas teams and Memphis that it makes too much sense to have them in the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerslionspistonshabs Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I don't think St. Louis would work, too close to Memphis. Seattle should definitely be the first city to get a NBA team. Other cities I think could work: Birmingham, Pittsburgh, or possibly Kansas City.Birmingham has always surprised me as never having a pro team of any sort. There's a metro population of approx. 1 million. Yes they're football crazy, but they don't play right in town.And don't crucify me over this, but I think hockey could even work there. Alabama is weird. They love their hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 A metro population of approx. 1M is not big by any definition. Pittsburgh, with a metro population of >2M (which is generous, considering what range is used for the statistics) is considered small market by most standards, and deservedly so. Birmingham (at least metro wise) is in the same class as Grand Rapids, Rochester, Salt Lake City, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Raleigh, etc. Buffalo's and Milwaukee's issues are well documented. Raleigh is at least still growing rapidly. Salt Lake City is a very unique case. OKC is a little bit higher on the rankings, but still tiny - however growing significantly faster than Birmingham. Also a bit of a unique case with them.Just at a very quick glance, Birmingham is better than I thought when it comes to jobs and incomes, and in the perfect situation (i.e. there's a billionaire who's dream it's always been to own a NBA team in his hometown, he's going to build the arena himself, he can drum up the corporate support he needs, and there's a legitimate thirst for the sport) maybe, maybe could support a team, but the last thing any of these leagues need (considering each of NBA and NHL have small market teams teetering on the edge) is to take another big gamble on a marginal-at-best market. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 The metro Birmingham area has a poverty problem. http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/fascinating-maps-illustrate-areas-poverty-affluence-alabama/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerslionspistonshabs Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 A metro population of approx. 1M is not big by any definition. Pittsburgh, with a metro population of >2M (which is generous, considering what range is used for the statistics) is considered small market by most standards, and deservedly so. Birmingham (at least metro wise) is in the same class as Grand Rapids, Rochester, Salt Lake City, Buffalo, Milwaukee, Raleigh, etc. Buffalo's and Milwaukee's issues are well documented. Raleigh is at least still growing rapidly. Salt Lake City is a very unique case. OKC is a little bit higher on the rankings, but still tiny - however growing significantly faster than Birmingham. Also a bit of a unique case with them.Just at a very quick glance, Birmingham is better than I thought when it comes to jobs and incomes, and in the perfect situation (i.e. there's a billionaire who's dream it's always been to own a NBA team in his hometown, he's going to build the arena himself, he can drum up the corporate support he needs, and there's a legitimate thirst for the sport) maybe, maybe could support a team, but the last thing any of these leagues need (considering each of NBA and NHL have small market teams teetering on the edge) is to take another big gamble on a marginal-at-best market.Salt Lake City.But, when the Jazz came to town the world was a different place and the NBA was a different game, so I'm not arguing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well I said it was a unique case "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJM Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Given the current state of the league competitively speaking, I think expansion would only further dilute the talent pool...granted I'm not in favor of contraction either. I think the league is fine for the most part where it sits now. If "new" teams are to occur, I think relocation is the best option, which always sucks for fans.I'll always be against Euro-based team(s) or conferences for the major problems they would create. There are plenty of ways to continue to grow your sport without planting a team(s) there. (MLF) Chicago Cannons,  (IHA) Phoenix Firebirds - 2021 Xtreme Cup Champions (WAFL) Phoenix Federals - WAFL World Bowl XII Champions (Defunct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbadefense1990 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The metro Birmingham area has a poverty problem. http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/fascinating-maps-illustrate-areas-poverty-affluence-alabama/Every freaking city in America has a "poverty problem," further escalated because of the deafening effects of the Great Recession. So it isn't such an isolated problem for Birmingham, only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The metro Birmingham area has a poverty problem. http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/fascinating-maps-illustrate-areas-poverty-affluence-alabama/Every freaking city in America has a "poverty problem," further escalated because of the deafening effects of the Great Recession. So it isn't such an isolated problem for Birmingham, only. As a state, Alabama (and the Birmingham metro) still has a problem which other states do not have. And it is their tax base tax code, the income tax code is incredibly regressive and the state sales tax is even worse since groceries are hit with state and local sales taxes, minimum of 4%. Adding an additional half a cent in tax to build an sports facility impacts a high poverty area even more.The about to open MiLB stadium in downtown Birmingham will have issues paying off its $70mm, so a new arena with the current parking issues must be dealt with first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 The metro Birmingham area has a poverty problem. http://yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/fascinating-maps-illustrate-areas-poverty-affluence-alabama/Every freaking city in America has a "poverty problem," further escalated because of the deafening effects of the Great Recession. So it isn't such an isolated problem for Birmingham, only.Nobody claimed that it was an isolated problem to Birmingham. But Birmingham has a particularly bad problem with poverty - its sits in a county with an unemployment rate of 18.7 percent, nearly 3 times the national average. Alabama itself is the sixth-poorest state in the nation. So no, "every freaking city in America" does not have the problems Birmingham faces. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Every city has poverty, so maybe it's better to factor in the number of people in the target market, since (I realize this sounds insensitive, but it's business) they don't care about the people in poverty because they won't be going to the games and buying the merch anyway.If you look at Philadelphia, there's a significant poverty percentage, and the average home value is really low, but by no means is it considered a cheap place nor unable to support 4 or more sports teams. For home values, they count a lot of places that no person who didn't have to would find desirable, and taking away the poverty percentage (and even that is a questionable calculation) there's still millions of affluent people to support teams. When you start throwing out Birmingham and other cities "just because", you're simply not doing any actual research and typing out of your ass. "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hettinger_rl Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 If one or two teams would be added in the west do you guys think that MN and Memphis should be slid into the east?Minnesota??? How about New Orleans?If two teams get added to the West, I think that the Timberwolves should be the only ones moving to the East.It does make more sense. New Orleans makes more sense on a map, but Minnesota is closer to the entire Central division than it is to any other Western Conference team. Travel-wise, Minnesota makes more sense than even Memphis to go East.Closest Western Conference team to Minneapolis= OKC= 788 mi.to Milwaukee= 337 mito Chicago= 409 mito Indianapolis= 592 mito Detroit= 694 mito Cleveland= 750 miNew Orleans could work also, I based the thought on; what feature, historically, splits our country? The Mississippi river. All three of these teams sit on it. Also, Memphis is about as close to Indy as it is to Dallas.Yes you have a point, but Memphis is still a stones throw from their whole division. Minnesota is not. Minnesota is closer to the entire Eastern Conference than it is to their own division mate in Portland.New Orleans, again, could work on a map, but they're so close to the 3 Texas teams and Memphis that it makes too much sense to have them in the west. I was linking this back to my original post and assuming Seattle would be the team 1st added to the west, that would put them in the NW Div, so the league could just slide OKC into the SW. Then, if San Jose or Las Vegas got a team put them in the Pac Div and Sac. in the NW, bumping MN east. Since there would be 32 teams with 16 E and 16 W the league would need to re-align the Div and add one to each Con. (4 Div of 4). That would bump Den south. All that gives us:WESTNorthwest: SEA, POR, UT, SACPacific: LAL, LAC, GS, San Jose or Las VegasSouthwest: SA, PHX, OKC, DEN*Gulf: DAL, HOU, NO, MEMEASTSoutheast: MIA, ORL, ATL, CHAAtlantic: BKN, NY, WAS, PHICentral: IND, CHI, MIL, MIN*North: TOR, CLE, DET, BOSI'll admit some trouble with the teams in the North and Central Div. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Every city has poverty, so maybe it's better to factor in the number of people in the target market, since (I realize this sounds insensitive, but it's business) they don't care about the people in poverty because they won't be going to the games and buying the merch anyway.You also have to consider the business base, since they're a significant percentage of ticket buyers. Alabama has one Fortune 500 company. The Philadelphia area, to continue Vet's example, has eight on its own (and drawing from the rest of Pennsylvania brings the total to 20). Even Milwaukee, a very small market by major league standards, has six.So Birmingham has the one-two combination of sky-high poverty rates and a small corporate base from which to draw. Not promising. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This would be as good as space as any to remind people that Jefferson County, Alabama (Birmingham's county) declared bankruptcy in 2011. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I didn't know that. But with unemployment rates that high their tax base must have taken a major hit. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Or the fact that the income which could support a pro franchise is currently going to either Alabama or Auburn. Try to break that bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I didn't know that. But with unemployment rates that high their tax base must have taken a major hit.It didn't help, although the root cause was an absurdly expensive sewer overhaul and very risky bond swaps to finance said overhaul that ultimately got a few public officials incarcerated.Regardless, the county is kind of short of money at this point. On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbadefense1990 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Or the fact that the income which could support a pro franchise is currently going to either Alabama or Auburn. Try to break that bond.After the folks in Tuscaloosa and Auburn have gotten the meat of the income, the high school football teams around the state will devour the last bit of the fat trimmings. All that's left for another franchise in that state would be dry bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virtual Appliance Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 How about the NBA just buying the Euroleague and the Chinese Basketball Association? Would be cool. 64 teams... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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