NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[STL FANATIC]

Again, you don't seem to be making much room for the possibility that Kroenke's desire is to keep the team in St. Louis. If he's simply out for the best deal he's gone.

That does not appear to be the case.

Additionally, the NFL isn't even likely to allow it to work that way. The NFL is going to require every option in St. Louis to be exhausted, and that will include Kroenke compromising and chipping in some of his own money plus a loan from the NFL's G4 program. That program exists to encourage public-private stadium compromises to keep teams where they are.

[McCall]

Kroenke has money, Walmart money. It's been said he would probably be willing to pay for most if not all if the city/county helps him out with land and other stuff Justin probably mentioned (though he'll probably still try hard to get the city to help with some of the stadium cost). He'll also try as hard as he can to get them to do the renovation plan to save him the cost, but that doesn't necessarily mean with certainty that if they don't, he's gone.

[Gothamite]

I'd need some sort of evidence that he's willing to leave money on the table other than "he's rich".

Rich people don't get rich, or stay rich, by paying for things they don't have to.

[STL FANATIC]

But if Stan wants to own an NFL team in St. Louis, then he might have to pay for it.

Again. If Stan Kroenke just wants to own an NFL team it's fair to think he might leave. But we have a lot of evidence already that Stan wants to own the NFL team in St. Louis.

FWIW, Bernie Miklasz, probably the most connected man in St. Louis sports media is pretty confidently stating the end game will be a new stadium in the bottle district of St. Louis city (right by downtown, adjacent from the current site) around 2020.

Bernie has preached patience on this situation for a while and even suggested something would probably get done somehow, but this is the first time I've heard him so sure and so specific,

Bernie doesn't report like this too often, so when he does, you can trust that he has information he believes to be very, very strong. (Full disclosure he was similarly sure Matt Painter was heading to Mizzou a couple years ago, and that didn't happen. So he's not perfect. But he did step-up take the heat for that... He's not just tossing things out without basis.)

[IceCap]

But if Stan wants to own an NFL team in St. Louis, then he might have to pay for it.

No, he doesn't. Isn't the CVC on the hook for this? He doesn't have to pay for anything. If the CVC can't, or won't, then he'll leave. No one's that loyal to a market.

[STL FANATIC]

Maybe re-read the sentence you responded to Ice. It already features the qualifier of if he wants to own the team in St. Louis.

Also lots of owners are that loyal to a city.

The ruling did not say the city has to pay for any stadium situation in full for the Rams to continue playing St. Louis, period, end of story.

The ruling said that for the Rams to be locked into the current lease at the current stadium through 2025, the city must fund the renovations proposed by the Rams.

That option will be dismissed and they'll work on a new stadium with a new lease.

I'm keeping it civil now. And uncivil isn't my nature anyways, but I'm going crow like hell when this is all resolved. Apologies in advance.

[rams80]

FWIW, Bernie Miklasz, probably the most connected man in St. Louis sports media is pretty confidently stating the end game will be a new stadium in the bottle district of St. Louis city (right by downtown, adjacent from the current site) around 2020.

Bernie has preached patience on this situation for a while and even suggested something would probably get done somehow, but this is the first time I've heard him so sure and so specific,

Bernie's far more trustworthy and connected with regards to the Cardinals than he is the Rams. I'm not sure what he's done in the last few years, but IIRC the general consensus was that his "inside source" in Rams Park was John Shaw or somebody close to him.

[joechicago]

I'd need some sort of evidence that he's willing to leave money on the table other than "he's rich".

Rich people don't get rich, or stay rich, by paying for things they don't have to.

My guess is that he wants to force STL to invest heavily in a new stadium, and that he really wants to stay, but he has to threaten seriously to leave.

[Gothamite]

But will the city, county and state be able to pay for the stadium he's demanding? At a time when St. Louis is cutting its police department?

As for Kroenke, I admit the possibility that he really wants to keep the team there. I just don't see any evidence to support it. He certainly didn't reflect such a desire in his very aggressive. opening gambit. Nothing even vaguely resembling a hometown discount in the Rams' plan; that was a plan that said quite the opposite.

If he plans to suddenly offer concessions to the CVC, he's kept it under close wraps. As I said, it's possible, but would be strange that he'd forego all these months of goodwill that he'd get for revealing those plans to the public.

[STL FANATIC]

Stan isn't going to settle for a bad stadium, so of course he presented a first class plan. Financing wasn't a required part the presentation so the Rams kept their leverage and made no such plans.

Not once had Stan threatened to move nor mentioned LA.

You guys keep talking about making concessions. That's where I think you're missing the boat.

Once this ruling is rejected by the Rams, there are no concessions to make. The Rams simply become a free agent in 2015 and they have the opportunity to negotiate a deal that suits them.

And that negotiation will largely be separate from this most recent situation.

What this ruling did was say the Rams don't have to keep playing in the EJD unless the city fixes it up. It basically gave the Rams the out they needed to start pursuing a new stadium.

And every indication is that that's how they view it. A pursuit of a new stadium, not a new city.

[IceCap]

I'm keeping it civil now. And uncivil isn't my nature anyways, but I'm going crow like hell when this is all resolved. Apologies in advance.

If you'll provide me the same courtesy when the Coyotes finally pick up and move and we get two Canadian NHL expansion teams it's cool.

[Gothamite]

Stan isn't going to settle for a bad stadium, so of course he presented a first class plan. Financing wasn't a required part the presentation so the Rams kept their leverage and made no such plans.

Are you sure about that?

[STL FANATIC]

Feel free lol. But for the record I'm on board with the Coyotes moving. Now. Have been for a while. I still think there's a lot of reasons that city never was given a good chance, but the bottom line is its a way too toxic to recover at this point. Send 'em to Quebec.

[STL FANATIC]

Stan isn't going to settle for a bad stadium, so of course he presented a first class plan. Financing wasn't a required part the presentation so the Rams kept their leverage and made no such plans.

Are you sure about that?

Yes. The CVC chose to, but the Rams didn't even attach an estimate to their proposal, let alone bother to create a financing plan. They didn't have to, so why not create a grand plan and avoid saying they're willing to chip in?

The Rams obviously will want to get the best deal they can out of the city, so they're going to get all the leverage they can. But that shouldn't be confused for them looking for the best deal from anyone in any city.

[STL FANATIC]

If you want to know how confident I am about this, I'm really excited for the city after this ruling. A top tier stadium and development in the bottle district is going to be an amazing thing for the city.

It's an area that needed to be developed a long time ago and I'm really excited for Kroenke to be the one handling it.

[rams80]

The Rams obviously will want to get the best deal they can out of the city, so they're going to get all the leverage they can. But that shouldn't be confused for them looking for the best deal from anyone in any city.

Why shouldn't it?

Yes, yes, I know..."he's from there," "the Rams have been ramping up their outreach in St. Louis" (mind you, Greater St. Louis alone can't support this team, so doubling down on the city is probably not as advisable as it looks)

[STL FANATIC]

Because its not the same thing, that's why. Yes it is a possibility. But everything the Rams have don and said suggests they're looking to figure out their situation in St. Louis.

We're really just going in circles now, though I'm happy to keep repeating myself.

[illwauk]

Maybe re-read the sentence you responded to Ice. It already features the qualifier of if he wants to own the team in St. Louis.

Also lots of owners are that loyal to a city.

Maybe, but most teams don't have an already established fanbase in the second largest media market and a guaranteed state of the art venue to play in.

[STL FANATIC]

Worth noting that Kroenke wouldn't own that state of the art venue, though. He'll likely wind up owning the new one in St. Louis. Which he likes to do.

[Gothamite]

Setting everything else aside for the moment, how do you suggest the city will pay for a $700M new stadium? And do you think that will pass a public vote?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I really want to know. I have a family friend in St. Louis who recently told me he's had enough, in part because of the problems with Ballpark Vilkage.