NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[FiddySicks]

But the Oakland Coliseum isn't in a neighborhood, it's just in a giant parking lot. It seems too self-contained to worry about whatever residential/industrial stuff is nearby. I have a hard time believing it's worse than the various Chicago neighborhoods where someone is murdered every day.

Well, FWIW, this list considers Oakland to only be remotely safer than Flint, Detroit, and St. Louis.

http://finance.yahoo...a.html?page=all

I'm not saying that Chicago doesn't have some truly awful places, I spent part of last summer with a buddy who lives on the South Side and it was SKETCH. But the industrial area where the Coliseum is can be considered nothing but a barren wasteland of failed businesses surrounded by the scariest neighborhoods in the Bay Area. You can at least catch the bus on the South Side at night and fear for your life, but probably survive (At least I did. Almost lost my shoes and had to change my boxers, but still). You couldn't pay me to go anywhere east of the Oakland Coliseum, even during the day.

The main point I'm trying to make though is that if you take the Raiders out of the Ghetto, you circumvent a lot of the problems with boorish behavior and still will have a TON of people flock to their games. It really bums me out that the Raiders get such a bad rap because if you can avoid the sketchy characters, their games are insanely fun, even when they couldn't beat a Mighty Mites Pop Warner team.

[bosrs1]

But the Oakland Coliseum isn't in a neighborhood, it's just in a giant parking lot. It seems too self-contained to worry about whatever residential/industrial stuff is nearby. I have a hard time believing it's worse than the various Chicago neighborhoods where someone is murdered every day.

Don't know about that. The Coliseum, while in a parking lot, also abuts up against a neighborhood to the east that is commonly referred to as "Baby Iraq." And it's a well deserved name. There have been two murders within quarter mile of the Coliseum property in that neighborhood in just the last few months. It's also the only place I've gone to see a game (in any sport, in any city) where I've actually heard rapid gunfire from a semi automatic while standing in the parking lot, again from that neighborhood. It's essentially a warzone between three major gangs and their sattellite gangs.

[bosrs1]

I used to believe that a team moving to LA was imminent, but all but one of the teams I thought would be on the move (Buffalo, Jacksonville, Minnesota, St. Louis) have either been taken off the table, seen ownership changes that make it unlikely for at least a few years, or have new stadia in the works/being constructed. The only other one on my list was the San Diego Chargers, and despite the riches a return to Los Angeles might provide, I can't see them abandoning one large Southern California market for another unless they completely run out of options in getting a new stadium there - which they haven't.

No they haven't. And the latest one is actually quite promising. One of the large developers has suggested a plan that makes far more sense than the repeated "downtown" efforts that have failed or died out in recent years. Rather than going downtown he's suggesting building at the current Qualcomm Stadium site. Either to build a new stadium, or to renovate Qualcomm (ala the Superdome where they pulled out most of the lower deck and rebuilt it) while putting ancillary development around the renovated stadium. They estimate the renovation in particular could be done far more economically than a new stadium, costing only $200 million (potentially all privately paid for), instead of $1 billion with a large public funding component like most new stadiums. And it's a plan that doesn't seem to make many people cringe as the current site is where many regular residents would like to see the Chargers stay over a harder to access downtown stadium.

[The_Admiral]

But if you're just in the parking lot and not a quarter-mile away, shouldn't you be okay? Wouldn't we have heard about someone getting killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game?

(this is the part where someone posts the link to the time someone was killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game and I look dumb)

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I tried going to a Warriors game once, which is in the same complex as Raiders/A's stadium. Walking from the arena to BART was not awesome. It felt like a 70's NYC cop movie, but not in a fun, ironic way. More like in a I hope those gentlemen don't knife me way.

[FiddySicks]

But if you're just in the parking lot and not a quarter-mile away, shouldn't you be okay? Wouldn't we have heard about someone getting killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game?

(this is the part where someone posts the link to the time someone was killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game and I look dumb)

Even Bob Lee Swagger would have a hard time hitting one of the six A's fans who go to games in a parking lot of that enormous size. Especially when four of them just use the covered walkway over to BART.

[bosrs1]

But if you're just in the parking lot and not a quarter-mile away, shouldn't you be okay? Wouldn't we have heard about someone getting killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game?

(this is the part where someone posts the link to the time someone was killed by a stray bullet walking to his car after an A's game and I look dumb)

Even Bob Lee Swagger would have a hard time hitting one of the six A's fans who go to games in a parking lot of that enormous size. Especially when four of them just use the covered walkway over to BART.

That was going to be my response. This was the most recent shooting that hit someone in the parking lot that I could find from 2007. Mind you they were shot by a gun that was ALSO in the parking lot. But

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/shooting-after-raiders-game-wasnt-over-football/nKgQm/

[gosioux76]

Outside of L.A.'s obvious market advantages, would moving into a high-end, posh downtown location really suit the Raiders brand? I mean, the league may not like the violence-by-association image of the Raiders and their fan base, but that is what they've become, and it's a brand that's been built over decades in both L.A. and Oakland.

Wouldn't becoming the L!A! Raiders! dilute that Raiders mystique?

[bosrs1]

Outside of L.A.'s obvious market advantages, would moving into a high-end, posh downtown location really suit the Raiders brand? I mean, the league may not like the violence-by-association image of the Raiders and their fan base, but that is what they've become, and it's a brand that's been built over decades in both L.A. and Oakland.

Wouldn't becoming the L!A! Raiders! dilute that Raiders mystique?

The Raiders currently have several team stores at "posh" locations. I don't think they're worried about their actual location as long as they have that "bad boy" image which frankly they can maintain anywhere with some half decent marketing and a few guys in darth vader masks.

[Brian in Boston]

And the latest one is actually quite promising. One of the large developers has suggested a plan that makes far more sense than the repeated "downtown" efforts that have failed or died out in recent years. Rather than going downtown he's suggesting building at the current Qualcomm Stadium site. Either to build a new stadium, or to renovate Qualcomm (ala the Superdome where they pulled out most of the lower deck and rebuilt it) while putting ancillary development around the renovated stadium. They estimate the renovation in particular could be done far more economically than a new stadium, costing only $200 million (potentially all privately paid for), instead of $1 billion with a large public funding component like most new stadiums. And it's a plan that doesn't seem to make many people cringe as the current site is where many regular residents would like to see the Chargers stay over a harder to access downtown stadium.

"[Q]uite promising"? According to who?

Back in October of 2012, at a breakfast Q&A on the campus of San Diego State University, hotel developer and Union-Tribune Publisher Doug Manchester did say, "If you give me $200 million, I'll fix Qualcomm." He went on to say that he'd spoken to Chargers President Dean Spanos about rehabbing Qualcomm, instead of building a new facility that could cost more than a billion dollars.

However, during the course of the Q&A, Manchester also stated, "But there is a lot of problems associated with" such a renovation. He didn't elaborate on the problems surrounding a Qualcomm rehab.

Further, though Manchester has told Spanos that the more cost-effective way for Chargers ownership to secure an updated facility for the team would be to engage in a renovation/rehab of Qualcomm Stadium, the U-T publisher has not publicly backed away from his newspaper's January of 2012 front-page editorial promoting a brand new Chargers stadium as part of a mega-development at the Tenth Avenue Marine Terminal on the downtown waterfront. In fact, following-through on the editorial's promise that promoting said project would be the newspaper's #1 priority, the newspaper has engaged in an on-going battle with the Unified Port of San Diego - the entity which controls the Tenth Avenue Marine Terminal and has, to date, roundly rejected the waterfront mega-development/stadium plan.

And while Steve Cushman - former San Diego mayor Jerry Sanders' point-man on convention center expansion - recently told KPBS-TV that he agreed with Mr. Manchester's estimate that $200 million would be enough to address the many issues at Qualcomm Stadium, Manchester sure doesn't sound like he's interested in playing a part in a Qualcomm rehab.

In the wake of Cushman's comments, the Union-Tribune has reported that Manchester is "... not interested in being the developer [of] the Qualcomm site -- "I've got my hands full doing other things" -- and was speaking at the site's potential from a developer's standpoint."

Also, the U-T reported that "Chargers consultant Mark Fabiani, who has been advising the team on stadium issues, said in an e-mail, "We remain open minded about all ideas, but there are no new developments on the ground at Qualcomm.""

Finally, in the wake of a lawsuit brought by the City of San Diego against energy company Kinder Morgan over the state of pollution at the Qualcomm site from gasoline tanks operated by the corporation, both Union-Tribune CEO John Lynch and Mr. Fabiani mentioned the lawsuit's outcome as impacting what new development might be feasible at the Charger's current home.

"I am convinced that no new stadium will ever be built on the Qualcomm site," Lynch said. "If it doesn't happen downtown, you may see the L.A. Chargers."

So, in a nutshell, while a prominent San Diego area developer feels that a renovation of Qualcomm would be considerably cheaper than building a brand new, state-of-the-art stadium for the Chargers, said developer actually favors... building a brand new, state-of-the-art stadium for the Chargers. What's more, he favors building it at a site on San Diego's waterfront that the Unified Port of San Diego says is a non-starter. In any event, the chances of securing the financing necessary to build a new stadium for the Chargers remain the proverbial "slim and none". Meanwhile, a consultant to the Chargers says that "there are no new developments on the ground at Qualcomm". Perhaps that's due to the fact that the Qualcomm site may well be polluted with gasoline to a degree that would significantly impact such development in a negative manner And, finally, the CEO of the local newspaper is on record as saying that, in his opinion, "no new stadium will ever be built on the Qualcomm site".

"[Q]uite promising", indeed.

[DaytonBlue]

The Rams have a renovation proposal to fix the Ed for $700 million.

The CVC's proposal is at least $126 million (original)...They improved upon it a bit but no new cost estimate.

Figuring an arbitrator would meet somewhere in the middle, perhaps a $300-$400 million renovation that would only buy St. Louis a decade unless a new lease was negotiated.

So I don't see Qualcomm being fixed to the Chargers satisfaction for $200 million.

[illwauk]

Although I'm a little put off by some of the language in this conversation, I haven't ever been to the Oakland Coliseum and have no way of knowing whether the things being said actually have merit, or if it's the equivalent of people around here who say they don't go to Bucks/Admirals games because the Bradley Center is in a "bad neighborhood."

I can understand the Warriors moving to San Fran or the A's moving to San Jose, but institutionally, the Raiders mean more to Oakland than probably any other NFL city, save for Green Bay and maybe Buffalo. Without the Raiders, they're just an anonymous Bay city that occasionally makes headlines related to crime, police brutality or medicinal pot.

I get that the NFL is going to make bottom-line based business decisions, but an NFL without the Oakland Raiders is a lesser NFL. Not to mention that in all likelihood, Raider fan culture in Downtown LA would be contrived and disingenuous.

[The_Admiral]

The Bradley Center is in a bad neighborhood? It's right downtown. That's not even a neighborhood. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

This isn't nice:

It's really not nice at 8 p.m. on a Tuesday night when you're walking through it by yourself except for the random guys standing around looking shifty. (My story is I had a ticket for a Warriors game but security wouldn't let me in with my backpack on. There was nowhere safe to stash it, so I sad screw it to the ticket and headed back to my hostel in San Francisco. This was a year after 9/11 when security was annoying everywhere.)

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Here's another photo. This place sucks:

[illwauk]

The Bradley Center is in a bad neighborhood? It's right downtown. That's not even a neighborhood. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Pretty much... consider that Miller Park was built in the County Stadium parking lot because their research showed that out-staters would be much less likely to come to games if they had to go downtown.

[The_Admiral]

But the fact that it sucks makes it great. So adequately functional.

[Rockstar Matt]

"Arbitrators rule in favor of Rams in Dome negotiations"

http://www.stltoday....7ae1dce981.html

The CVC has 30 days to try to enact the Rams' plan for renovation, which is unlikely, and because of that it looks like the Rams can break their lease in 2015. Officially it's saying the Rams lease with the EJD will go on a year-to-year lease beginning in 2015.

This is pretty big news.

[bosrs1]

"Arbitrators rule in favor of Rams in Dome negotiations"

http://www.stltoday....7ae1dce981.html

The CVC has 30 days to try to enact the Rams' plan for renovation, which is unlikely, and because of that it looks like the Rams can break their lease in 2015. Officially it's saying the Rams lease with the EJD will go on a year-to-year lease beginning in 2015.

This is pretty big news.

I'll say. To me it looks like the Rams just moved to the front of the line to move to LA.

[McCall]

This wasn't unexpected and they're still looking at potential sites for a new stadium. Nothing's really changed yet from what's been said over the last month or so. Could go, could stay.