NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[McCall]

The $700 million only applies to renovations to the Dome. They are not bound to pay for it or another stadium. If they don't, then the Rams can end the lease in 2015. Doesn't mean they'll bolt for LA. It's a possibility, but not a certainty. If the city turns down the Rams renovation plan, then they'd probably enter into negotiations on a renovation compromise or new stadium, possibly privately funded, with the team not being bound to the lease after 2015 if they so choose.

This in no way puts the burden of renovations or a new stadium solely on the city. Again, this was not unexpected. The plan the arbitrators decided on was higher than thought, but it was always perceived that the renovation price tag would be set high, the city would more than likely decline it, this allowing the lease to end in 2015, with negotiations to continue on a compromise or new stadium. As far as a new stadium, it's possible Kroenke may pay for it himself with help from the city/county on land, etc.

[Gothamite]

Okay, it's possible that Kroenke will want to pay for the new stadium, even though he doesn't have to.

But if he doesn't, how will the city pay for it?

[bosrs1]

$700. Million. Dollars. For a stadium without a team.

Just move the Jaguars already.

If I was the Chargers I don't see why you wouldn't jump all over this. They can stay in SD until the Stadium is finished and keep but expand their fanbase.

If I were the Chargers, that's exactly what I'd do, only I'd continue to have training camp in San Diego and commit to playing one preseason game at the Q every year.

I wouldn't. San Diego hates LA. If the Chargers move north the vast majority of their current fan base will abandon them, preseason games be damned. Just ask the Lakers how well received they are down in SD. They play a preseason game down here every year and don't even sell out half of the San Diego Sports Arena. And they're a team that wouldn't have just abandoned the city like the Chargers would be.

[bosrs1]

The $700 million only applies to renovations to the Dome. They are not bound to pay for it or another stadium. If they don't, then the Rams can end the lease in 2015. Doesn't mean they'll bolt for LA. It's a possibility, but not a certainty. If the city turns down the Rams renovation plan, then they'd probably enter into negotiations on a renovation compromise or new stadium, possibly privately funded, with the team not being bound to the lease after 2015 if they so choose.

This in no way puts the burden of renovations or a new stadium solely on the city. Again, this was not unexpected. The plan the arbitrators decided on was higher than thought, but it was always perceived that the renovation price tag would be set high, the city would more than likely decline it, this allowing the lease to end in 2015, with negotiations to continue on a compromise or new stadium. As far as a new stadium, it's possible Kroenke may pay for it himself with help from the city/county on land, etc.

Sure he will. And it's possible he could find the cure for cancer next week. Doesn't mean it's likely to happen. If he was willing to let the city off the hook that easily he wouldn't have taken them to the mat and beaten them on the lease at Ed Jones Dome.

[njmeadowlanders]

$700. Million. Dollars. For a stadium without a team.

Just move the Jaguars already.

If I was the Chargers I don't see why you wouldn't jump all over this. They can stay in SD until the Stadium is finished and keep but expand their fanbase.

If I were the Chargers, that's exactly what I'd do, only I'd continue to have training camp in San Diego and commit to playing one preseason game at the Q every year.

I wouldn't. San Diego hates LA. If the Chargers move north the vast majority of their current fan base will abandon them, preseason games be damned. Just ask the Lakers how well received they are down in SD. They play a preseason game down here every year and don't even sell out half of the San Diego Sports Arena. And they're a team that wouldn't have just abandoned the city like the Chargers would be.

San Diego doesn't love the Chargers as it is enough to be able to sell out the majority of their games. And this is a city with absolutely no other competition save for the two Padres weekend homestands in September when they're already 20 games back.

[McCall]

The $700 million only applies to renovations to the Dome. They are not bound to pay for it or another stadium. If they don't, then the Rams can end the lease in 2015. Doesn't mean they'll bolt for LA. It's a possibility, but not a certainty. If the city turns down the Rams renovation plan, then they'd probably enter into negotiations on a renovation compromise or new stadium, possibly privately funded, with the team not being bound to the lease after 2015 if they so choose.

This in no way puts the burden of renovations or a new stadium solely on the city. Again, this was not unexpected. The plan the arbitrators decided on was higher than thought, but it was always perceived that the renovation price tag would be set high, the city would more than likely decline it, this allowing the lease to end in 2015, with negotiations to continue on a compromise or new stadium. As far as a new stadium, it's possible Kroenke may pay for it himself with help from the city/county on land, etc.

Sure he will. And it's possible he could find the cure for cancer next week. Doesn't mean it's likely to happen. If he was willing to let the city off the hook that easily he wouldn't have taken them to the mat and beaten them on the lease at Ed Jones Dome.

Did I say it was a certainty? No. But it's no less a certainty than them leaving for LA is. You guys are so set on the Rams moving to LA that anything at all to the contrary is ridiculous. It's 50/50. Not a single person here knows a damn thing for sure what's going to happen. None of us. Not me, not you. So stop with the ridiculous sarcastic answers, get off your high horse and realize you know no more than anybody else does.

[DaytonBlue]

The one thing (disclosure: native St. Louisan, Rams fan, attended 50-60 games, thinks they will ultimately stay in the area) I don't understand is why people think Kroeneke would be open to chipping in for a new stadium in downtown St. Louis (sources like Miklasz in St. Louis have said a new downtown stadium was a pretty good possibility).

I think the Rams are leaving the City of St. Louis. They may end up in the Metro East (Ilinois, like the baseball Cardinals briefly considered), St. Louis County (suburbs), or out of the area. But a new open-air stadium right near the dome doesn't give Kroenke the ability to develop real estate or control parking, a la Jerry World (parking) and Patriot Place (parking and development).

[Gothamite]

Did I say it was a certainty? No. But it's no less a certainty than them leaving for LA is. You guys are so set on the Rams moving to LA that anything at all to the contrary is ridiculous. It's 50/50. Not a single person here knows a damn thing for sure what's going to happen. None of us. Not me, not you. So stop with the ridiculous sarcastic answers, get off your high horse and realize you know no more than anybody else does.

Please don't make this personal. It isn't personal at all.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not "set on" anything. I have no horse in the race (my own disclosure - I used to live in LA, but hated almost every minute of it and got my ass back to New York as soon as I could make the career change work).

What I'm describing is not necessarily what I want to happen, but what an objective reading of all available evidence tells me is likely to happen.

I know it's hard to keep emotion out of it, when we're talking about your team potentially moving, but your fellow posters are not the bad guys here. We didn't saddle St. Louis with a terrible lease, we didn't create the demand for a modern stadium and we didn't vote to strip St. Louis of millions of public dollars that it needs to do things like pay its cops (to say nothing about building a new stadium). At least I didn't.

So please, don't mistake our interest for animus. And don't make this personal in return.

[McCall]

Did I say it was a certainty? No. But it's no less a certainty than them leaving for LA is. You guys are so set on the Rams moving to LA that anything at all to the contrary is ridiculous. It's 50/50. Not a single person here knows a damn thing for sure what's going to happen. None of us. Not me, not you. So stop with the ridiculous sarcastic answers, get off your high horse and realize you know no more than anybody else does.

Please don't make this personal. It isn't personal at all.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not "set on" anything. I have no horse in the race (my own disclosure - I used to live in LA, but hated almost every minute of it and got my ass back to New York as soon as I could make the career change work).

What I'm describing is not necessarily what I want to happen, but what an objective reading of all available evidence tells me is likely to happen.

I know it's hard to keep emotion out of it, when we're talking about your team potentially moving, but your fellow posters are not the bad guys here. We didn't saddle St. Louis with a terrible lease, we didn't create the demand for a modern stadium and we didn't vote to strip St. Louis of millions of public dollars that it needs to do things like pay its cops (to say nothing about building a new stadium). At least I didn't.

So please, don't mistake our interest for animus. And don't make this personal in return.

Not making it personal, just tired of us who think they may say being treated as, was mentioned, "pollyanas" who are be ignorant of the truth that they're as good as gone. I too think there's a possibility of them leaving. I hope not, but I'm no idiot. It's there. But some of the posters here are treating us like idiots for thinking anything else, that they may stay. And it's on us to provide evidence to the contrary. It's all purely speculation at this point and sometimes it feels like we're the only ones that think that.

[The_Admiral]

I think the Rams are leaving the City of St. Louis. They may end up in the Metro East (Ilinois, like the baseball Cardinals briefly considered)

Do they plan to buy up some blighted-beyond-belief land in ESTL and finance the whole thing themselves? (And then expect people to go to ESTL?) Because if they're coming to Illinois for free money because they couldn't get it from Missouri...

[McCall]

I think the Rams are leaving the City of St. Louis. They may end up in the Metro East (Ilinois, like the baseball Cardinals briefly considered)

Do they plan to buy up some blighted-beyond-belief land in ESTL and finance the whole thing themselves? (And then expect people to go to ESTL?) Because if they're coming to Illinois for free money because they couldn't get it from Missouri...

Yeah I don't think there's much if any chance they wind up across the river. If they leave downtown, out in the county is most likely.

[Gothamite]

Not making it personal, just tired of us who think they may say being treated as, was mentioned, "pollyanas" who are be ignorant of the truth that they're as good as gone.

Somebody called you a Pollyanna, people like that one in turn were called cynics, I don't think either is right.

I too think there's a possibility of them leaving. I hope not, but I'm no idiot. It's there. But some of the posters here are treating us like idiots for thinking anything else, that they may stay. And it's on us to provide evidence to the contrary.

Well, yes. You're making some pretty wild speculations.

The city is broke, or at least in pretty hard financial shape and can't pay its employees as it is now. Add to that the sad facts that the rest of Missouri voted to take more tax dollars away, and that a new stadium would face a public vote.

You think, and hopefully I'm not misstating your position, that the Rams will cave in the end out of civic pride and pony up a substantial percentage of the cost.

Maybe you're right. But the evidence leans against your argument, which is why you keep getting questioned on it. The Rams started out playing hardball with the city, turning down multiple overtures that would have let St. Louis out of the more draconian clauses in that stupid lease. They've forced the process every step of the way, while the city's been trying to make it all go away. That doesn't read to me like an organization preparing a hometown discount, but rather one looking for every advantage it can get, advantages St. Louis seems ill-able to afford.

It's all purely speculation at this point and sometimes it feels like we're the only ones that think that.

Of course it is. We can only go by the facts we have, which are all leaning in one direction. Not conclusive by any stretch, but leaving.

Look, I'm not exactly going out on a limb when I say that it doesn't look good for the Rams to stay. If they move, nobody's going to hail me as a visionary. If I push you to support your assertions, that's why. And because I respect your opinion enough to want to know where it comes from.

[McCall]

There is no evidence leading the other way though. We have said, this was expected. Nothing has changed. We knew the renovation price would be high. You guys are falsely taking it to be evidence that they are more than likely gone, which it doesn't. There is no difference than before the arbitration decision other than we are past that step in the process and it went as expected.

[STL FANATIC]

In response to Gothamite's question... how would St. Louis pay for a new building or massive renovations if the Rams don't take on much of the bill?

The simple answer is probably that they won't. There is a small possibility that the politicians would decide they don't want to lose the team and find some loophole to pass funding without putting it to a public vote. But the mayor has vowed to put it to a vote, and I don't think it'd pass in a public vote. And as much as it pains me to say... while I think there is a lot of abstract value that comes from having an NFL team and think you can justify 200-300 million, I'm not sure 700+ can be justified.

But back to the other point at hand, McCall's point is valid, and it's not about making it personal.

I know most of you aren't rooting for the Rams to move. I do believe there's some subconscious "the Rams belong in LA" going on. And I do believe that some of you made up your minds about what was going to happen a long time ago and now are sticking to it. But I know you're not rooting for it.

That said, I think there's a disconnect between the national public and St. Louis. The national public does not have a grasp on the situation. They don't know what reports are trustworthy and what aren't. They understand Stan even less than we understand Stan. They don't hear all the things the Rams are saying. They don't see all the things they're doing in the community. And as a whole, the nation likes controversy and goes with the "there must be some other explanation" line of thinking. (See also the continued existence of the line of thinking that Manti T'eo was involved in the hoax.)

So when we say, Stan likes St. Louis. Stan has done a lot for St. Louis. The Rams have said they're trying to figure out where IN ST. LOUIS that they're going to play for the next 30+ years. The Rams have increased their commitment to the city and the region through their network and their community service. The Rams say the arbitration is just the starting point for NEGOTIATIONS. The sources with connections suggest this is entirely the case and take it a step further by noting where the Rams are looking and when they think they'll start building.

And the national perception remains. "Yeah right. Like Kroenke will spend his own money? LA here they come!"

I have a personal interest, but I don't take it personally. But the disconnect does frustrate me. I can't fathom why many of you can't fathom that Kroenke would be willing to build his own stadium (that he would own) on land given to him by the city and stay in the city that he has been dedicated to rather than sell part of the team and lease a stadium owned by someone else in a different city.

Both options are certainly on the table. But what is strange is that the perception around here (and it's not just homers) is that it's probably 75/25 or better that the Rams are sticking around in St. Louis, while nationally everyone seems to think it's 25/75 at best that they stick around.

So I'll simply say again that this news barely sent a ripple through St. Louis it was so expected. And many (including myself) are excited about it because it was a necessary step in order to move forward with the negotiations.

[The_Admiral]

And as a whole, the nation likes controversy and goes with the "there must be some other explanation" line of thinking. (See also the continued existence of the line of thinking that Manti T'eo was involved in the hoax.)

Well, at least to the extent that he knowingly lied about a lot of things, he kinda was, but this isn't the thread for that.

I don't know if it's so much a "Los Angeles deserves the Rams" sentiment nationwide so much as the St. Louis Rams were kind of ill-gotten in the first place and have been a dead spot on the league map for some time now. It's hard to stir up sympathy when the team was losing 14, 15 games a year and no one was going to a crappy dome.

[STL FANATIC]

I don't mean deserve, I mean they remember the Rams there in their childhood, so that's where they belong. Your latter point is correct , too, though. The Rams have been irrelevant for 6 or 7 years. And not just irrelevant, horrible. They weren't in the national picture. They weren't going to pack the stadium (although ticket sales largely remained good). And ultimately that doesn't earn them national good will.

And while that all explains why the perception might be what it is, none of it is actual logic to argue against the much accepted notion in St. Louis that the Rams will build their own stadium in St. Louis.

[DarkJourney]

It's pretty simple to me: The Rams are either staying or moving. There are only two choices. IMHO I hope they stay.

[DaytonBlue]

I only threw out Illinois because they could TIF it since the tax revenue would be new coming into the state, what the Cardinals mentioned doing.

As for ESL Admiral, I got nothing. Maybe they could go farther east but that is getting pretty far away from the center of the region.

I would say though, a stadium right on the river with the arch and STL skyline in the background would be pretty cool (perhaps NE of Casino Queen). Now I'm just dreaming of course.

[rams80]

I think the Rams are leaving the City of St. Louis. They may end up in the Metro East (Ilinois, like the baseball Cardinals briefly considered),

The Rams will stay on the Missouri side of the river. Missouri is flush with cash compared to Illinois.

St. Louis County (suburbs),

Personally while I do suspect this would be likeliest location if the Rams stay, the more I look at the Fenton site, the more I think this would be a logistical nightmare.if any type of Commercial development was attempted. That 270/44 Cloverleaf is unpleasant enough in terms of traffic.

[The_Admiral]

As for ESL Admiral, I got nothing. Maybe they could go farther east but that is getting pretty far away from the center of the region.

Carlinville Rams! I used to not get cell phone coverage there!

the more I look at the Fenton site, the more I think this would be a logistical nightmare.

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