NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[bosrs1]

Even the second team will likely seek some sort of local favor, some sort of tax relief or something, and I that plus the NFL's preferences have kept the Raiders out of the LA conversation.

And I don't see the Raiders being in a position to force the issue, frankly. Mark Davis is not his father - he's already hired a real GM, after all.

What kind of local favor does the second team need? It's not like they'll have to do anything but pay rent to AEG.

And your team offices and practice facilities will be where?

Um... where ever they should choose to rent space just like any business.

Yeah man those practice fields are just sitting there waiting for somebody to rent them.

Suppose that's true. The old practice facility in El Segundo was converted back to a school if I'm not mistaken. But that said, they'd just have to buy some land and build their own facility. Not exactly a hard proposition since any city can easily be payed off these days.

[rams80]

Even the second team will likely seek some sort of local favor, some sort of tax relief or something, and I that plus the NFL's preferences have kept the Raiders out of the LA conversation.

And I don't see the Raiders being in a position to force the issue, frankly. Mark Davis is not his father - he's already hired a real GM, after all.

What kind of local favor does the second team need? It's not like they'll have to do anything but pay rent to AEG.

And your team offices and practice facilities will be where?

Um... where ever they should choose to rent space just like any business.

Yeah man those practice fields are just sitting there waiting for somebody to rent them.

Suppose that's true. The old practice facility in El Segundo was converted back to a school if I'm not mistaken. But that said, they'd just have to buy some land and build their own facility. Not exactly a hard proposition since any city can easily be payed off these days.

1. I thought the Raiders were broke. That's part of the issue here.

2. They don't need a second team. Greater L.A. isn't going to be that economically desperate for the Raiders.

3. It can be very hard to buy some land and build your own facility if the municipality you're dealing with decides not to play ball. Oh they can't stop you, but you're really going to need to do those 20 different environmental impact studies before moving forward, fill out all these other contract and agreement forms, perform these economic studies, and get permission from 40 different neighborhood associations. Oh, and everyone you need to meet with for this is on rolling furlough or vacation...for the next decade or so. You vastly underestimate how bad legal obstructionism can get.

[Gothamite]

And here's where the stadium site becomes very important.

If the City of Industry plan is built, maybe they don't remember the Raiders circus or are too desperate to care. But Los Angeles does

remember and reportedly does care, and if AEG's downtown site is the one selected, you may well see that local obstructionism in action. Particularly if the Raiders are the second team in town, and there's no danger that LA will be left without.

[bosrs1]

And here's where the stadium site becomes very important.

If the City of Industry plan is built, maybe they don't remember the Raiders circus or are too desperate to care. But Los Angeles does

remember and reportedly does care, and if AEG's downtown site is the one selected, you may well see that local obstructionism in action. Particularly if the Raiders are the second team in town, and there's no danger that LA will be left without.

That's why the Raiders would have to wait until after the stadium is built. At that point there's far less the city can do to obstruct them. And as for the city leaders not wanting the team, they're only half the equation. The city still has many citizens who are fans of the team and would welcome them back.

[rams80]

And here's where the stadium site becomes very important.

If the City of Industry plan is built, maybe they don't remember the Raiders circus or are too desperate to care. But Los Angeles does

remember and reportedly does care, and if AEG's downtown site is the one selected, you may well see that local obstructionism in action. Particularly if the Raiders are the second team in town, and there's no danger that LA will be left without.

That's why the Raiders would have to wait until after the stadium is built. At that point there's far less the city can do to obstruct them. And as for the city leaders not wanting the team, they're only half the equation. The city still has many citizens who are fans of the team and would welcome them back.

That's only an issue if they vote in local elections.

[STL FANATIC]

How many legitimate reports have we really seen that suggest the Raiders have no shot in LA?

I feel like we took a couple of reports that said the NFL & LA are leery of it and repeated it so much that we've turned it into a blockade between Oakland and LA.

Or I could be wrong and it really is that. But I can't recall any substantial reports that suggest the desire to keep them out of LA is THAT strong.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Well, I still don't see how going from zero to 2 teams in L.A. in the same stadium makes sense, but now we're saying they get to be picky about which two? Sounds like a great success story waiting to happen. Very college football realignment-esque.

How long has it been since Qualcomm hosted a Super Bowl? Can't be all that bad. Maybe the Raiders will head to San Diego if the Chargers go to L.A. first.

[IceCap]

Well, I still don't see how going from zero to 2 teams in L.A. in the same stadium makes sense, but now we're saying they get to be picky about which two? Sounds like a great success story waiting to happen. Very college football realignment-esque.

How long has it been since Qualcomm hosted a Super Bowl? Can't be all that bad. Maybe the Raiders will head to San Diego if the Chargers go to L.A. first.

Two New York teams in the same stadium seems to have worked out. It may not be ideal, but it's doable.

[TBGKon]

How long has it been since Qualcomm hosted a Super Bowl? Can't be all that bad. Maybe the Raiders will head to San Diego if the Chargers go to L.A. first.

Qualcomm last hosted in January 2003, Super Bowl XXXVII

[STL FANATIC]

Well, I still don't see how going from zero to 2 teams in L.A. in the same stadium makes sense, but now we're saying they get to be picky about which two? Sounds like a great success story waiting to happen. Very college football realignment-esque.

How long has it been since Qualcomm hosted a Super Bowl? Can't be all that bad. Maybe the Raiders will head to San Diego if the Chargers go to L.A. first.

Two New York teams in the same stadium seems to have worked out. It may not be ideal, but it's doable.

I think CFBM's point is less about the stadium issues and more about a city that once lost 2 teams (almost at the same time) and has not had any teams for nearly the last decade, suddenly becoming a 2-team city.

I think it's a valid point. LA is OBVIOUSLY a large enough region, but do they care enough. Will they support both franchises if one or both isn't particularly good?

I think the #1 thing in their favor is that the speculated top 3 most likely teams to move (Chargers, Raiders, Rams) all have solid LA fan bases already.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, let's not give them a second team till they've maximized their first. Hund's Rule of Sports Teams.

[Gothamite]

Let's also keep in mind why the two teams left LA - they got better stadium deals elsewhere. Not that Angelinos "didn't care enough".

Put a new stadium in the City of Angels, and problem solved.

[B-Rich]

I think CFBM's point is less about the stadium issues and more about a city that once lost 2 teams (almost at the same time) and has not had any teams for nearly the last decade...

Nearly the last TWO decades. Time flies, my friend....

[STL FANATIC]

Let's also keep in mind why the two teams left LA - they got better stadium deals elsewhere. Not that Angelinos "didn't care enough".

Put a new stadium in the City of Angels, and problem solved.

Certainly. And that's exactly how they'll get a team (or two) back, too.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Well, I still don't see how going from zero to 2 teams in L.A. in the same stadium makes sense, but now we're saying they get to be picky about which two? Sounds like a great success story waiting to happen. Very college football realignment-esque.

How long has it been since Qualcomm hosted a Super Bowl? Can't be all that bad. Maybe the Raiders will head to San Diego if the Chargers go to L.A. first.

Two New York teams in the same stadium seems to have worked out. It may not be ideal, but it's doable.

I think CFBM's point is less about the stadium issues and more about a city that once lost 2 teams (almost at the same time) and has not had any teams for nearly the last decade, suddenly becoming a 2-team city.

I think it's a valid point. LA is OBVIOUSLY a large enough region, but do they care enough. Will they support both franchises if one or both isn't particularly good?

I think the #1 thing in their favor is that the speculated top 3 most likely teams to move (Chargers, Raiders, Rams) all have solid LA fan bases already.

Yes, that is what I'm saying, and although you make a good point about the three teams in question, I can't imagine the return of any of those dormant fanbases can compare to the consistent fanbases of the Giants and Jets in the much larger New York market. I still think you bring one in, and if there's just so much demand that one team just won't cut it, well, who needs a new stadium now? (It'll still probably be the Raiders.) I think the NFL is using L.A. to get the best deals they can in Minnesota, St. Louis, etc. The Chargers seem to be content to wait for the NFL's signal. (They have nothing in the works at all, correct?) We'll see, but you'd think the best scenario in this game of musical chairs is to have only one team left without a stadium.

Let's also keep in mind why the two teams left LA - they got better stadium deals elsewhere. Not that Angelinos "didn't care enough".

In 1995 they did. But 20 years later, will they still care enough to support two teams? Or is it just about the TV market? The NFL's Maryland and Rutgers. I remember seeing reports early on (late '90s) that L.A. fans liked getting to see the best games every week instead of getting locked into watching the Rams and Raiders... but maybe that was just L.A. Times spin. I'll have to see if I can find some of those old articles. It's just amazing that it's been so long now...

[Gothamite]

I think the NFL is using L.A. to get the best deals they can in Minnesota, St. Louis, etc.

Of course they are. Doesn't mean that LA won't end up watching their own team(s) on future Sundays.

FWIW, that's another reason why I think the NFL would be perfectly happy to see the Rams return to LA. Of the potentially-vacated markets, St. Louis is the one that seems not only most attractive for additional relocation but most likely to sign another bad deal to lure a team. A good combination for the next team looking for leverage against their current city.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I think the NFL is using L.A. to get the best deals they can in Minnesota, St. Louis, etc.

Of course they are. Doesn't mean that LA won't end up watching their own team(s) on future Sundays.

FWIW, that's another reason why I think the NFL would be perfectly happy to see the Rams return to LA. Of the potentially-vacated markets, St. Louis is the one that seems not only most attractive for additional relocation but most likely to sign another bad deal to lure a team. A good combination for the next team looking for leverage against their current city.

Yeah, the "I think" was completely unnecessary there. Almost edited it out.

However, I'm not sure St. Louis would be in a hurry to get the NFL back after getting burned a second time, let alone hand over all of the leverage again in order to do it. I could be wrong, but if L.A. could go this long with everything in its favor, and the reason the Rams leave ends up being the bad deal they made, I can't see them making the same mistake again, and therefore waiting quite a while, NFL carrot status or not. Better to focus on the NHL and MLB at that point, IMO. Can't let Bettman ship the Blues off to Quebec while no one's looking.

[Gothamite]

You could well be right.

But losing a team often results in the city being willing to spend more getting a replacement than they were to keep the old one. How many "new" markets are old ones warmed over? In the NFL we have Cleveland, Baltimore, Houston and... St. Louis already once before.

LA would just be the latest.

[cmm]

The Bills just signed a deal to stay in Buffalo for 7 years. It's actually a 10-year lease but the relocation penalty is just $29 million after the 7th year.

http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121221/CITYANDREGION/121229867/1004

[STL FANATIC]

To the earlier topic, as much as I'd want St. Louis to have NFL football, I agree, I don't see them making another bad deal to get it back. If they make another bad deal, it will happen now, to keep the team they have.

And if they're not going to make a bad deal, then there's really only 2 people in or around football that would seem willing and able to "help" St. Louis out in getting a team back. One of them is Stan Kroenke. He may help St. Louis keep a team, but if it gets to the point of needing to get a team back, it means he's already been ruled out.

The other is Shad Khan. And we'll just have to watch how the situations in St. Louis and Jacksonville both go before that's worth wondering about.

As for the Bills news, it's noteworthy, but I don't think it's too huge a deal as it concerns LA. The Bills were almost certainly not going to move in the next 3-5 years anyways. Only if LA doesn't have two teams by then would they really be worth thinking about. And since this deal has a relatively affordable buyout after 7 years, that thought process doesn't change all that much now anyways.

I don't think Buffalo's long-term future is clear, but I do think it's incredibly unlikely it ends up being in LA.