NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Cosmic]

Maybe it's because I am a Bills fan and have come to expect the worst, but I still think they're in the running. They have a 94 year-old owner whose kids don't want the team. They have an old stadium on a seven-year lease and no real movement on a new stadium. Not many local wealthy people who would be able to buy the team. Not much of a corporate base locally. The "expansion" into Toronto has been a mixed bag, at best. Some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL.

[Mac the Knife]

Maybe it's because I am a Bills fan and have come to expect the worst, but I still think they're in the running. They have a 94 year-old owner whose kids don't want the team. They have an old stadium on a seven-year lease and no real movement on a new stadium. Not many local wealthy people who would be able to buy the team. Not much of a corporate base locally. The "expansion" into Toronto has been a mixed bag, at best. Some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL.

I agree. Once Ralph Wilson dies, all bets are off regarding the future of the Bills. Even with upgrades the stadium's ancient by NFL standards, and any new owner coming in there is going to immediately, but quietly, make it clear: "Build a new stadium or we're headed to Los Angeles." And Buffalo's population and tax bases being what they are, that's simply not going to happen.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Miami is not the best sports town, but I'll be honest, of all the teams that call South Florida home, I've never once considered the Dolphins endangered.

Their timing is bad. The Marlins couldn't get what they needed for 10 years because for some reason the area built two NBA/NHL arenas. Now that the Marlins' ruse has been exposed to the world (financially and on the field), the Dolphins are the ones currently left without a chair.

Some say it's a Heat town now, but at its heart I think it still bleeds aqua and orange. 10 years ago you could get into AAA for $10, and into Panthers your-name-here Center for two empty cans of Pepsi and a couple bucks. One's changed, but the other likely hasn't, but I'd guess the Dolphins are capable of a revival rivaling or exceeding the Heat rather than staying in the dumps for long.

Seemed like an empty threat, but I'd love to see their bluff called.

[bosrs1]

Miami is not the best sports town, but I'll be honest, of all the teams that call South Florida home, I've never once considered the Dolphins endangered.

Their timing is bad. The Marlins couldn't get what they needed for 10 years because for some reason the area built two NBA/NHL arenas. Now that the Marlins' ruse has been exposed to the world (financially and on the field), the Dolphins are the ones currently left without a chair.

Some say it's a Heat town now, but at its heart I think it still bleeds aqua and orange. 10 years ago you could get into AAA for $10, and into Panthers your-name-here Center for two empty cans of Pepsi and a couple bucks. One's changed, but the other likely hasn't, but I'd guess the Dolphins are capable of a revival rivaling or exceeding the Heat rather than staying in the dumps for long.

Seemed like an empty threat, but I'd love to see their bluff called.

Are the Dolphins really left without a chair though? Sun Life is 25 years old, but it was also the first in the current slew of newer stadiums. And it's not like it hasn't been upkept. Didn't it just undergo a major renovation in 2008 or so that revamped the club level and added the new scoreboards among other changes? Seems to me the Dolphins "needs" are less like the Bills, Vikings and Niners, and more along the lines of the Falcons... unnecessary when it comes down to it.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Exactly. But like the Falcons, the shelf life of the elite, Super Bowl stadiums is even shorter than others. You're only as good as the weakest link, apparently. No idea why the NFL thinks Miami can't host either of the next two Super Bowls to be awarded without renovations, but apparently that was their ultimatum.

EDIT: And it wasn't that long ago that Miami was being talked about as a semi-permanent host to the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl. Perhaps that was before Cowboys Stadium, though.

[bosrs1]

Exactly. But like the Falcons, the shelf life of the elite, Super Bowl stadiums is even shorter than others. You're only as good as the weakest link, apparently. No idea why the NFL thinks Miami can't host either of the next two Super Bowls to be awarded without renovations, but apparently that was their ultimatum.

EDIT: And it wasn't that long ago that Miami was being talked about as a semi-permanent host to the Super Bowl and Pro Bowl. Perhaps that was before Cowboys Stadium, though.

So really it has little to do with the Dolphins and everything to do with the SuperBowl. Which means it's probably for the best Miami is out of the rotation for a while since the Super Bowl is a net money loser for anyone who hosts it thanks to all the monetary and tax concessions the NFL demands (and Miami has sunk enough money into sports corporate welfare for a long while thanks to Jeffery Loria).

[Magnus]

Maybe it's because I am a Bills fan and have come to expect the worst, but I still think they're in the running. They have a 94 year-old owner whose kids don't want the team. They have an old stadium on a seven-year lease and no real movement on a new stadium. Not many local wealthy people who would be able to buy the team. Not much of a corporate base locally. The "expansion" into Toronto has been a mixed bag, at best. Some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL.

I agree. Once Ralph Wilson dies, all bets are off regarding the future of the Bills. Even with upgrades the stadium's ancient by NFL standards, and any new owner coming in there is going to immediately, but quietly, make it clear: "Built a new stadium or we're headed to Los Angeles." And Buffalo's population and tax bases being what they are, that's simply not going to happen.

Perhaps it's because I am eternally hopeful for smallish cities to have a source of civic pride, but shouldn't the threat of the Bills moving somewhere out of western New York be cause for Bills fans to rise up and demand that they be able to own the team a la Packers model? I understand that that would contravene the current ownership rules, and that Green Bay's case was grandfathered in, but it works so well for Green Bay, that it should work for other cities that want to keep their teams, and have the cash to do so among their population base.

I'm not hoping for a Glenderp scenario - I'm just wondering if there would be enough will from the fanbase in places like Buffalo to publicly take ownership of the sports team that they love so much.

[Gothamite]

I'll admit that Green Bay is a very special case, but I'm not entirely sure why the same economic model is entirely off the table in other cities. Sure, it's not the easiest thing to work, but with the right fanbase it helps the team, city and league.

It's not as though the Packers' fanbase hasn't been willing to put millions into the franchise.

[Cosmic]

Maybe it's because I am a Bills fan and have come to expect the worst, but I still think they're in the running. They have a 94 year-old owner whose kids don't want the team. They have an old stadium on a seven-year lease and no real movement on a new stadium. Not many local wealthy people who would be able to buy the team. Not much of a corporate base locally. The "expansion" into Toronto has been a mixed bag, at best. Some of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL.

I agree. Once Ralph Wilson dies, all bets are off regarding the future of the Bills. Even with upgrades the stadium's ancient by NFL standards, and any new owner coming in there is going to immediately, but quietly, make it clear: "Built a new stadium or we're headed to Los Angeles." And Buffalo's population and tax bases being what they are, that's simply not going to happen.

Perhaps it's because I am eternally hopeful for smallish cities to have a source of civic pride, but shouldn't the threat of the Bills moving somewhere out of western New York be cause for Bills fans to rise up and demand that they be able to own the team a la Packers model? I understand that that would contravene the current ownership rules, and that Green Bay's case was grandfathered in, but it works so well for Green Bay, that it should work for other cities that want to keep their teams, and have the cash to do so among their population base.

I'm not hoping for a Glenderp scenario - I'm just wondering if there would be enough will from the fanbase in places like Buffalo to publicly take ownership of the sports team that they love so much.

If the NFL announced tomorrow that the Bills would go up for sale via the Green Bay model, I'm pretty confident that there would be enough interest to snap up a lot of shares. People really love the Bills even when they have sucked for so long. Getting to that point, however...

Ralph Wilson claims that he has a plan in place to keep the Bills in Buffalo after he he passes away, but he doesn't want to reveal it because he doesn't want everyone to act like he's already dead or something like that. There could be a 1% chance that he got the NFL to agree to let the fans purchase the team, a 5% chance that the group with Jim Kelly can scrape together enough money for the team, and 95%* chance that he's BSing us and his kids will just put the team up for auction.

*Figures do not add to 100% due to rounding.

[STL FANATIC]

It was announced today that the NFL will match Atlanta's taxpayer (via bonds) contribution of $200 million through the G4 loan program for the new $1 billion stadium in Atlanta.

So that's $200M (20%) from the taxpayers, $600M (60%) from the Falcons "upfront", and $200M (20%) from an NFL loan to the Falcons.

Whether any one agrees with this all depends on their opinion on whether Stan Kroenke will be willing to put up money he "doesn't have to" in St. Louis, and we've had the discussion out pretty good, but I anticipate this is a similar funding plan you'll see in St. Louis when the situation works itself out.

I'm anticipating 20-25% from the taxpayers, a matching contribution in a G4 loan from the NFL, and then Kroenke covering the rest. Not sure how any potential land donation from the city would factor into that, though.

And on that front, there's been no real news with the Rams stadium situation. Those who might know anything just seem to think it's becoming like any other stadium situation where things won't really heat up until the real deadline (end of 2014, I believe) approaches.

There have been pessimistic reports out of LA (regarding the likelyhood of obtaining an NFL team any time soon), but not really substantial news in those, either.

[rebelx]

Anybody have any insights as to the Rams' chances of staying in St. Louis at this point? That stadium issue is obviously a huge one, because of that whole "top-tier venue" clause in the lease. The question is, would the team waive that part and just settle for a number of upgrades to EJD (publicly financed, of course), or would they stick to their guns, likely resulting in them moving elsewhere in the end (frankly, I sort of doubt the city is going to pony up for all the upgrades the Rams likely want if the clause is waived, especially given that the venue hasn't been around all that long, but I could be wrong). I've heard Maryland Heights mentioned as a possible destination if they decided to stay in the St. Louis area, but of course, there's always L.A.

I'd love to hear from those who are more knowledgeable than I am about the whole situation.

[Gothamite]

No news.

Those who thought Kroenke is willing to put up his own money for the stadium still think so, those of us who thought he would hold St. Louis to the lease and make them pay still think so.

Nothing's changed.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Yeah, work your way back in this thread. Most of those angles are covered. Any new news will likely be posted here quickly.

In the meantime, you've got to ram it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOYY6futWBc

[dbadefense1990]

Yeah, work your way back in this thread. Most of those angles are covered. Any new news will likely be posted here quickly.

In the meantime, you've got to ram it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOYY6futWBc

"Hollywood handsome, Dodge City tough!!!"

Ah, sports teams doing cheesy songs during the 1980s.

[Mac the Knife]

Ralph Wilson claims that he has a plan in place to keep the Bills in Buffalo after he he passes away, but he doesn't want to reveal it because he doesn't want everyone to act like he's already dead or something like that. There could be a 1% chance that he got the NFL to agree to let the fans purchase the team, a 5% chance that the group with Jim Kelly can scrape together enough money for the team, and 95%* chance that he's BSing us and his kids will just put the team up for auction.

Ralph Wilson's in his 90's. Every 90+ person I've ever encountered in my life has a plan in place to talk with FDR in the afterlife, too. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

[CubsFanBudMan]

What do you know... NFL relocation news aplenty from CBS today:

Jason LaCanfora says the NFL wants to be the first league to put a team in another country (no really, it says that):

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22357154/london-calling-nfl-wants-uk-team-and-soon-jags-look-like-best-fit

Other nuggets include 2 relocated LA teams -- in Chavez Ravine -- a richer Toronto-Bills hybrid and Jacksonville to London.

Pete Prisco says keep your hands off the Jaguars and send the Bucs overseas because everything negative ever said about Jacksonville is a lie:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/pete-prisco/22357404/why-not-london-bucs

In other news, Pete Prisco is Island Style. (Honestly though, Jax > London.)

[Island_Style]

Pete just gets it like I do. Even though you have never seen us in the same room.

[NJTank]

Pete just gets it like I do. Even though you have never seen us in the same room.

[Gothamite]

What do you know... NFL relocation news aplenty from CBS today:

Jason LaCanfora says the NFL wants to be the first league to put a team in another country (no really, it says that):

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22357154/london-calling-nfl-wants-uk-team-and-soon-jags-look-like-best-fit

Well, we know he isn't serious then.

The NFL wouldn't be the first league to have a team in another country - it would be the last American major league to do so.

Then there's this nonsense:

Don't sweat the details, like travel. Have you even looked at the 49ers' brutal travel schedule that's ahead in 2013, or glanced back at the last year's? You think a series of five-hour flights during a six-month schedule is enough of a deterrent to derail all this economic goodness? Then you haven't been paying attention. Don't give me long flights, or fatigue, or players not wanting to play abroad. The league wants to add Don't sweat the details, like travel. Have you even looked at the 49ers' brutal travel schedule that's ahead in 2013, or glanced back at the last year's? You think a series of five-hour flights during a six-month schedule is enough of a deterrent to derail all this economic goodness? Then you haven't been paying attention. Don't give me long flights, or fatigue, or players not wanting to play abroad. The league wants to add regular-season games, has made Thursday nights a staple of the schedule and plenty of athletes in other sports go abroad -- it's beyond common in basketball, hockey and soccer, and even baseball.regular-season games, has made Thursday nights a staple of the schedule and plenty of athletes in other sports go abroad -- it's beyond common in basketball, hockey and soccer, and even baseball.

It is not common at all, much less "beyond common", to subject athletes to either eleven-hour flights or eight-hour time differences. Unless he thinks that the relocated Jaguars would only play east coast teams. What does he think would happen when the AFC West came a-calling? Absurd.

[Cosmic]

Yeah, I'm not sure where he thinks he's going on a five hour flight other than BosWash. Travel time doesn't bother me personally, so I tend to discount that maybe more than I should. Time zone changes, however, would be a major major issue. I can't imagine adjusting to an eight time zone difference in a few days and then back a few days later.