NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[CubsFanBudMan]

I think it's been stated here that they're staying "San Francisco" as part of the deal.

[Mac the Knife]

Niners new stadium got final approval last night from the city of Santa Clara as the city has approved the 850 million in loans for the stadium. As soon as the league releases the G3 funds they can begin prepping for construction. Guess it is time to finally tell Candlestick Park goodbye.

http://www.mercurynews.com/california-high-speed-rail/ci_19542816

Still no word on the Raiders involvement if any...

Awesome. I have a friend who works 5 blocks from the site whose company has already signed a preliminary deal for a suite. Might have to try and score me a ticket someday.

[Mac the Knife]

I think it's been stated here that they're staying "San Francisco" as part of the deal.

I've actually heard conflicting reports on that. It may have changed since I read about it, but the last I read was that they were going to do an Angels and call the team the "San Francisco 49'ers of Santa Clara." I pray someone talked someone out of that though.

[Gothamite]

Other than fan message boards, where have you heard "conflicting reports" on that?

[Mac the Knife]

Other than fan message boards, where have you heard "conflicting reports" on that?

I don't frequent fan msg boards, but the report I read was in the SJ Mercury News, back years ago when they were first getting their act together on this deal.

[Gothamite]

Maybe when they were first putting the deal together, but the 49ers have spent the last several years insisting that they won't change the name (such as this report from May, 2009).

[bosrs1]

I'm assuming the "SF" will become "SC."

Nope. It'll remain "SF". The team isn't changing names (they've stated as such many times just this year), and they're not contractually obligated to by the city. There is far too much money in being the San Francisco 49ers to just throw away the only name the team has ever had. Also from a purely geographic POV they're still in the same San Francisco Bay Area they've always been in and still represent San Francisco. Just like the two New York teams still represent NY and are still in the NYC metro area despite being in a different state.

[TheOldRoman]

I just don't understand why any city would pay to build a football stadium. With a baseball stadium you get 81 dates a year. With a basketball/hockey arena, you get 41 dates plus many more concerts and possibly conventions. But $850 million to bring 70,000 people to that spot 10 times a year? Maybe there is more to it I am missing if there are private groups lined up to build stadiums in LA, but I can't see how that would come anywhere close to making sense for a city.

[Gothamite]

Well, those private groups in LA intend to use the stadium as an anchor for additional development.

There's a strong pull for cities, especially smaller cities, to make themselves "major league" by building one of these sinkholes. Think Glendale, Arizona, which has to subsidize the Coyotes to the tune of $25M a year because they had an inflated view of themselves.

[bosrs1]

I just don't understand why any city would pay to build a football stadium. With a baseball stadium you get 81 dates a year. With a basketball/hockey arena, you get 41 dates plus many more concerts and possibly conventions. But $850 million to bring 70,000 people to that spot 10 times a year? Maybe there is more to it I am missing if there are private groups lined up to build stadiums in LA, but I can't see how that would come anywhere close to making sense for a city.

It doesn't make much sense. But then if you really want a sports team you take what you can get. And for Santa Clara they've spent decades being the bridesmaid, never the bride. The Niners, A's, and Giants all offered to move to the very area this stadium is going to be built over the years, and some talks like the Giants got advanced enough that they were even voted on. But every time it got shot down. This time the citizens finally said they wanted a team and voted as such. Even if it doesn't make much sense (at least not if the Raiders don't join the Niners) at least the city has ensured they're protected from the loan should the Niners ever default on it. The Niners reportedly are taking on the risk in this loan.

[TheOldRoman]

Well, those private groups in LA intend to use the stadium as an anchor for additional development.

There's a strong pull for cities, especially smaller cities, to make themselves "major league" by building one of these sinkholes. Think Glendale, Arizona, which has to subsidize the Coyotes to the tune of $25M a year because they had an inflated view of themselves.

It makes even less sense in cases like the Niners or Coyotes where the team isn't even using the city name. Granted, I was around 10 when the Jaguars were announced, but it was the first I had heard of the city of Jacksonville. It took me a few years to realize it was in Florida and not Mississippi, but at least I had heard of it. But for SC and Glendale to put that money down and not get credit for it? Much worse.

As for the development around the LA stadiums, are they assuming people will be so drawn to the 10 football dates a year that they want to move within walking distance of the stadium? Will lining the streets with bars and retail really pay off the other 355 days a year? Would attaching a football stadium to it make the area more sought after? Do people go to Patriot Place on Tuesday nights in February to watch the Celtics from a bar?

[Gothamite]

I think the economics are somewhat different in the two LA cases, since one would be an expansion of existing development and one is creating a new retail/residential/sports center in the middle of freaking nowhere.

[bosrs1]

I think the economics are somewhat different in the two LA cases, since one would be an expansion of existing development and one is creating a new retail/residential/sports center in the middle of freaking nowhere.

Well to be fair Santa Clara really isn't "the middle of nowhere". It's actually in the very heart of the south bay in a fairly large city 120,000 person city surrounded by 140,000 person Sunnyvale to the west and 1,000,000 person San Jose to the north and east. Plus smaller cities south of it like Campbell, Cupertino, Los Gatos and Saratoga which are all filled with upper middle class to filthy stinking rich people all ready to buy tickets.

Glendale however would fit the "middle of nowhere" model. It literally rises out of the surrounding landscape like a crashed UFO. It's cool until you realize the implications of NOTHING being around it.

[B-Rich]

I just don't understand why any city would pay to build a football stadium. With a baseball stadium you get 81 dates a year. With a basketball/hockey arena, you get 41 dates plus many more concerts and possibly conventions. But $850 million to bring 70,000 people to that spot 10 times a year? Maybe there is more to it I am missing if there are private groups lined up to build stadiums in LA, but I can't see how that would come anywhere close to making sense for a city.

Depends on how and where it's built. As Gothamite pointed out, LA's stadium is an anchor for other development. If it's a domed or retractable roof stadium, the event calendar can be filled with other events-- circuses, trade shows, concerts, conventions, and monster truck rallies. Not to mention the economic impact of holding a major sporting event such as a Super Bowl, Final Four, BCS National Championship game, etc. If it's downtown, close to hotels & other attractions, all the better.

Good examples of stadia used in such locations and used in such capacity include the Superdome, the Georgia Dome, and the old Hoosier Dome (which, like the Georgia Dome, acts as an adjunct of the convention center). I'd include the domes in St. Louis and Minneapolis, too, but they seem antiquated for their primary tenants. You could also include the two NFL Texas stadia, but they are not located in downtown areas and don't get that convention center/tourism synergy.

[Gothamite]

I think the economics are somewhat different in the two LA cases, since one would be an expansion of existing development and one is creating a new retail/residential/sports center in the middle of freaking nowhere.

Well to be fair Santa Clara really isn't "the middle of nowhere".

I was referring to the City of Industry stadium plan, contrasting that with the downtown "LA Live" proposal.

Industry, California is just what it says on the tin; an industrial park with a smattering of residents. Very much the middle of nowhere.

[Gothamite]

As for Farmers Field, I don't think we've posted these new renderings, released last month.

LOS ANGELES (KTLA) -- Architects chosen to design Farmers Field have unveiled their vision for the proposed football stadium in Downtown Los Angeles.

Instead of a bulky retractable roof, the design features a removable lightweight covering, similar to a the one on Beijing's Birds Nest venue used int he 2008 Olympics.

The home NFL team will decide whether to leave the roof on or not, according to Michael Roth, spokesman for stadium developer AEG.

The stadium will seat 72,000 people.

Most of the seating is on the sidelines, opening the north end zone to a view of the city.

"This showcases the advantage of being in Los Angeles, how people would rather be outside or inside," Ron Turner, principal of the project's lead architect, Gensler, told the Los Angeles Times.

"We need a symbol, a gateway. It's important for people to say, 'Wow! That's L.A.'"

[The_Admiral]

Glendale however would fit the "middle of nowhere" model. It literally rises out of the surrounding landscape like a crashed UFO. It's cool until you realize the implications of NOTHING being around it.

New Urbanism from hell.

[tBBP]

What I really wanna know is just how big this place is (intended to be) in relation to JerryWorld. Either way, doesn't look like they'll be suspending any HumongoTrons from the ceiling of that place...or doing any roll-out floors, for that matter.

[Gothamite]

Glendale however would fit the "middle of nowhere" model. It literally rises out of the surrounding landscape like a crashed UFO. It's cool until you realize the implications of NOTHING being around it.

New Urbanism from hell.

It's actually the antithesis of New Urbanism, which stresses integration between commerical and residential in a walkable synthesis to replicate the pedestrian-based community.

Building a stadium and mall far from housing centers and in a place accessible only by automobile is exactly the opposite. They should wish for New Urbanism.

[bosrs1]

What I really wanna know is just how big this place is (intended to be) in relation to JerryWorld. Either way, doesn't look like they'll be suspending any HumongoTrons from the ceiling of that place...or doing any roll-out floors, for that matter.

There wouldn't be any place to put a roll out floor in a downtown LA stadium anyway. Compared to Jerry's world it's obviously planned to be over 8000 seats smaller (in standard configuration). Which is fine. Jerry's world is a monstrosity.

Glendale however would fit the "middle of nowhere" model. It literally rises out of the surrounding landscape like a crashed UFO. It's cool until you realize the implications of NOTHING being around it.

New Urbanism from hell.

It's actually the antithesis of New Urbanism, which stresses integration between commerical and residential in a walkable synthesis to replicate the pedestrian-based community.

Building a stadium and mall far from housing centers and in a place accessible only by automobile is exactly the opposite. They should wish for New Urbanism.

Talk about an arena with no character too. The Jobbing.com arena looks like a big box store anchoring the development, not an arena.