NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[ninersdd]

This thread is veering towards "Skating on the iced blood of the non-believers" territory.

That's FROZEN blood, my man. But yeah, that's what I was getting at when I said this thread was on the way to getting goldmined. And actually, to be more accurate,

those "excuses" are probably treading more towards that whole "Detroit scheduling loss" territory, whoever started all that jazz in one of the whole NHL threads.

This site sho' is good for many a Creamery meme, ain't it??

It was definitely a Red Wing fan, but I forgot their name.

[bosrs1]

No no no we went over this already. The NFL isn't letting its idiot bastard son have the most prime relocation opportunity ever.

They're really better off contesting their games in Santa Clara while still "embodying the spirit of Oakland," or something. Keep your team offices and practice facilities in Oakland, maybe.

Well if they moved to LA it would be a full on sale of the team to AEG. But it looks like Oakland does plan to include them in this new plan for the current Oakland Coliseum site. In fact they appear to be the anchor.

It would include a new stadium for the Raiders, ballpark for the A's, and arena for the Warriors. They'd expect it to cost over 2 billion dollars most of which would be publicly funded or private investment from outside the teams...

http://www.mercurynews.com/monte-poole/ci_19512140

[Gothamite]

Hey, at least they could afford a very nice rendering.

The Davis family is not the reason that the NFL doesn't want the Raiders back in LA; it's the Raider fans.

Back in the day, they were the closest thing the US had to soccer hooligans. And given LA's recent problems in this area, the NFL is quite rightly concerned about fallout in what would be a very high-profile franchise and stadium.

I daresay that, of all the relocation candidates, the only one LA doesn't want, and the League doesn't want, is the Raiders.

[dfwabel]

Hey, at least they could afford a very nice rendering.

The Davis family is not the reason that the NFL doesn't want the Raiders back in LA; it's the Raider fans.

Back in the day, they were the closest thing the US had to soccer hooligans. And given LA's recent problems in this area, the NFL is quite rightly concerned about fallout in what would be a very high-profile franchise and stadium.

I daresay that, of all the relocation candidates, the only one LA doesn't want, and the League doesn't want, is the Raiders.

The city claims that they have received six RFPs for the current Coliseum site and the claim no general fund money for either site. Note that the city is still paying off Mt. Davis.

[bosrs1]

Hey, at least they could afford a very nice rendering.

The Davis family is not the reason that the NFL doesn't want the Raiders back in LA; it's the Raider fans.

Back in the day, they were the closest thing the US had to soccer hooligans. And given LA's recent problems in this area, the NFL is quite rightly concerned about fallout in what would be a very high-profile franchise and stadium.

I daresay that, of all the relocation candidates, the only one LA doesn't want, and the League doesn't want, is the Raiders.

The city claims that they have received six RFPs for the current Coliseum site and the claim no general fund money for either site. Note that the city is still paying off Mt. Davis.

Yeah they expect they'll have redevelopment funds even though they have yet to pay the money to save their fund after redevelopment is eliminated in January. And even then their redev funds only would cover 1/10th of the total cost.

[DarkJourney]

That new complex in Oakland ain't happening. Oakland has to come to realization that it's not a pro sports town anymore.

[bosrs1]

That new complex in Oakland ain't happening. Oakland has to come to realization that it's not a pro sports town anymore.

Yeah, all three pro teams don't try to leave at the same time unless there's something systemically wrong with your town. Oakland's got problems up the wazoo. Perceptions problems, leadership problems, money problems, crime problems, size problems (Oakland was the only major city in California to shrink in the last 10 years and is now smaller than Fresno, Sacramento and Long Beach), and worst of all for sports venue problems. The Coliseum is a dump that was made worse by the 1995 Raider invasion, not better. And the Coliseum Arena is equally as old and is now the oldest venue in the NBA.

[rams80]

I understand y'all are mad. Especially Rams fan. I'm gonna love these next 5 years watching people meltdown cause J-ville is still around. So go ahead, let it all out.

Ummmmmm......

Dude. I'm in the "move the Rams to Los Angeles" camp. I don't think St. Louis is nearly the pro football market locals claim it to be.

[RyanB06]

That new complex in Oakland ain't happening. Oakland has to come to realization that it's not a pro sports town anymore.

Yeah, all three pro teams don't try to leave at the same time unless there's something systemically wrong with your town. Oakland's got problems up the wazoo. Perceptions problems, leadership problems, money problems, crime problems, size problems (Oakland was the only major city in California to shrink in the last 10 years and is now smaller than Fresno, Sacramento and Long Beach), and worst of all for sports venue problems. The Coliseum is a dump that was made worse by the 1995 Raider invasion, not better. And the Coliseum Arena is equally as old and is now the oldest venue in the NBA.

Except the arena interior was gutted and totally redone in time for the 1997 season.

[bosrs1]

That new complex in Oakland ain't happening. Oakland has to come to realization that it's not a pro sports town anymore.

Yeah, all three pro teams don't try to leave at the same time unless there's something systemically wrong with your town. Oakland's got problems up the wazoo. Perceptions problems, leadership problems, money problems, crime problems, size problems (Oakland was the only major city in California to shrink in the last 10 years and is now smaller than Fresno, Sacramento and Long Beach), and worst of all for sports venue problems. The Coliseum is a dump that was made worse by the 1995 Raider invasion, not better. And the Coliseum Arena is equally as old and is now the oldest venue in the NBA.

Except the arena interior was gutted and totally redone in time for the 1997 season.

Parts of the interior were gutted, parts also remained. And the basic foundation and structure are still the 1966 vintage. It's still the NBA's oldest venue and suffers from many of the same problems Key Arena in Seattle did.

[Mac the Knife]

What about Chicago?

The Windy City's always been a dark horse for a second NFL team. The market would definitely be able to accomodate a second team although it'd be bizarre for the Vikings to more to their divisional rivals' backyard. Not likely but it's definitely a possibility.

No... it's not. The Bears would have to authorize it, and anytime the issue is brought up they've said, quite vociferously, that they will never allow infringement on their territorial rights.

[Mac the Knife]

I just meant like a sig bet or something. I should have some credibility. Since 09 everything I said would happen in Jax has happened. I have been nailing it. Yet people still think im delusional. So im ready to bet this team wont move. This isn't 09 and this franchise isn't struggling in sales like other teams. We are first in our state.

And you had credibility, until Khan bought the team. There's a new element in the mix, and it's one that renders your statements no longer credible - an owner who isn't from that city, and who has either sentimental or financial incentive to take it elsewhere. Wayne Weaver had ties to Jacksonville that compelled him to bring the team there, and then to keep it there. This guy has no such ties.

[Gothamite]

I don't think Weaver had ties to the area before he bought the team, but he put them down quickly.

Khan already has an area he adores, though. I don't know that he's eager to move them to LA, but if St. Louis opens up they're gone.

[BlazerBlaze]

BTW, When that game happened they needed a miracle to get in.

Okay, how about a photo from this season's opener?

Bright sunshine-y day. First game of the season, so nobody can yet accuse the club of underperforming. Sure, some sections are nicely packed. But others are vacant.

It's a little early to start holding up the Jaguars as a model for anything more than perfecting shell games.

Record heat day.

According to NOAA and Weather Underground, the high for Jacksonville on 9-11-11 was 93.

Considering that most Jaguars fans live in/near Jacksonville, a high of 93 degrees is not exactly "sweltering". They're used to the heat and the humidity.

Why does ATL have a dome? How come both Florida baseball teams play indoors?

Because it gets frikin cold here in the winter, kinda when the big games are played here. Think about the Peach Bowl, it was miserable back when it was playing in Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. Sense it's been moved to the dome its become one of the nation's top bowls. The dome was also a key in ATL getting the Olympics in '96 as it held alot of events. The dome also opens up the option for NCAA final four, plus it is used as part of our convention center. It just made more sense that way. Its exactly why LA is going to have a retractable roof.

[STL FANATIC]

I don't think Weaver had ties to the area before he bought the team, but he put them down quickly.

Khan already has an area he adores, though. I don't know that he's eager to move them to LA, but if St. Louis opens up they're gone.

Goth, this isn't just you, it's sort of the way many have posted in the whole thread, I'm just using your post as an example.

But it's posts like this that at times had me so frustrated, and surely have Jacksonville supporters frustrated. It's not that what you're saying might not come true, or that it's not likely even. But nothing has happened yet, and none of us know the inner-workings of the teams or the league.

I think it's presumptuous to suggest any certain team is definitely going to move to the huge market of LA. I think it's even more presumptuous (as much as I'd like it to be true and reassure me I'll have an NFL team), to assume that a second (or third) team will move to the market abandoned by a team that just moved to that major market.

Nothing is a given. And if it is, we certainly don't know enough to say so.

There's certainly nothing wrong with informed speculation, but discussions would go a lot smoother and with a lot less hurt feelings if we acknowledged in our posts that this is only what seems likely to us, what we think might happen. Saying something will definitely happen, when we don't know that, seems counter-productive to me.

As I said before, Goth is certainly not the only one guilty of this. We've probably all done it throughout this thread, whether it's saying someones staying or someones moving. I just think we could phrase things in a way that makes discussions go smoother. And not just so someone's feelings don't get hurt, but because it's actually the right way to say it. It's all theories and speculation at this point.

[Gothamite]

Not for the first time, I think you guys are getting a little hung up on this.

Yes, we're speculating without facts. Welcome to the Internet. We speculate without facts in the Price Fielder free agent threads, the coaching carousel threads and the "when will the Tampa Bay Lightning change their uniforms again?" threads. And somehow that speaking with conviction is okay there, but not on this thread.

I appreciate that no fan likes to lose a team. Trust me, I'm a native Brooklynite raised in Milwaukee. I know the hole a team leaves behind. But reasonable speculation does not equal glee in the conclusion. It ain't personal.

I can point to the reasoning behind my opinions. You can too. We do it without personal attacks or animus, staying focused on the issues. That's the conversation that makes these boards interesting, whether we're discussing power rankings, the Padres' need for an overhaul or what teams we think will relocate to LA. Suddenly deciding that speculation is out of bounds on one of these topics seems missing the point to me.

Besides, I thought that was one of my more measured and moderate posts. I did say if St. Louis was vacant.

[CubsFanBudMan]

I think everyone needs to realize that there's an implied "IMO" at the end of almost every post on a message board. We have some insiders on the uniform side, but I don't recall anyone claiming to have inside knowledge of NFL franchise relocations. When they do, we'll see if their facts hold up.

When in doubt, remember it's probably just an opinion, not a fact, rather than the other way around. I think the dots being connected since the Jacksonville ownership announcement are reasonable speculation, and I can't imagine the NFL didn't anticipate it. We'll see how it plays out, but it might be a few more pages into this thread before it does, so buckle up.

[bosrs1]

Niners new stadium got final approval last night from the city of Santa Clara as the city has approved the 850 million in loans for the stadium. As soon as the league releases the G3 funds they can begin prepping for construction. Guess it is time to finally tell Candlestick Park goodbye.

http://www.mercurynews.com/california-high-speed-rail/ci_19542816

Still no word on the Raiders involvement if any...

[CS85]

I'm assuming the "SF" will become "SC."

[Gothamite]

I'm assuming the "SF" will become "SC."

Bad assumption, I think.

There's far too much value in their city name to throw it away.